Hitting children for education/disciplinary purposes...

[Smart_Guy]

Corporal punishment solves adults' frustration but has not been shown to be useful for most children.

I'm afraid I agree with you as least when it comes t some parents. They give the impression they do it out of grudge or something, blowing off steam because of problems they have else where. But not all people and all cases are the same. Ask parents who hit their children how they feel or why they do it, and also observe them how they actually socialize with their children in general. I think how that comes out is what matters.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Apart from it being illegal in most countries.

Yes but many things are legal/illegal in some countries and so many people say that's wrong. Cannabis is an example.

P.S.
I have nothing against cannabis in the legal department, I'm just using it as an example.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What's your evidence?

There are literally hundreds of Books full of evidence on the subject, and it has been the subject of continuing research in virtually every University, with whole departments devoted to the subject.
Interestingly there is almost no research that shows that corporal punishment works.

Speaking only from personal experience, I can tell you it certainly worked on me, and I never felt it was excessive. I had very good parents.

Your experience is exactly what research has shown..
That those that are subject to Corporal punishment, tend to continue the practice them selves onto the next generation.
Your support of it confirms this.

 

[Koldo]

There are literally hundreds of Books full of evidence on the subject, and it has been the subject of continuing research in virtually every University, with whole departments devoted to the subject.
Interestingly there is almost no research that shows that corporal punishment works.

What do you mean by 'work' ?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What do you mean by 'work' ?

Works= is effective.

 

[Draka]

I think some people connect a spank to a beating. As if all physical contact is the same. It isn't.

 

[Quetzal]

While I think personal experience can be valuable and is something to weigh, I don't think it's a substitute for science.

I agree.

 

[Quetzal]

I think some people connect a spank to a beating. As if all physical contact is the same. It isn't.

This is a very important distinction.

 

[Draka]

This is a very important distinction.

A distinction that I believe some don't see as perhaps they see from one of two positions. One being from the person who never had any physical discipline ever and the other from the person who suffered some kind of abuse. Where the "discipline" crossed over into more. One cannot exact the same discipline or repercussions upon a child as one can an adult. True. And people tend to use that only one way. That is, you don't spank an adult to teach or punish, so you shouldn't a child, BUT...one cannot fine, jail, fire, remove driving privileges and more to a child either. And while not all forms of discipline or rehabilitation work on adults, nor for every situation, due to personality differences, the same goes for children. Christie may be fine with just a wag of a finger and a "don't do that" while Mary may be totally defiant and start throwing things at you and absolutely refuse to listen at all and throws herself around and starts breaking things at the mere mention of a "time out". Perhaps the only thing that makes her stop for a moment and listen is a quick swat to the bottom. That sudden burst of contact that makes her "come to". Are Mary's parents worse than Christie's? No. Could they be the same parents with just two different children? Yes.

Not all the children are the same, not all physical discipline is abusive.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Well, we do win by +2 so far, don't we?

 

[Quetzal]

It is also important to mention that no one (I hope) who is voting for physical discipline, is actively looking to use it. I would be willing to guess in many (if not all) cases, it is the last resort or an extreme situation that requires it. If Little Q is not picking up his toys, I don't immediately reach for the boxing gloves. (I can feel your blood pressure rising, this is a joke, a play on words, please don't hurt me) There are steps and progression that we go through, he is aware of those things and I cannot remember the last time it got to that point.

 

[Smart_Guy]

It is also important to mention that no one (I hope) who is voting for physical discipline, is actively looking to use it. I would be willing to guess in many (if not all) cases, it is the last resort or an extreme situation that requires it. If Little Q is not picking up his toys, I don't immediately reach for the boxing gloves. (I can feel your blood pressure rising, this is a joke, a play on words, please don't hurt me) There are steps and progression that we go through, he is aware of those things and I cannot remember the last time it got to that point.

I believe all who said yes agree (hopefully) with you in this.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No one here is claiming scientific support, at least not that I see. What we are claiming is empirical experience that has benefitted our situations. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not empirical experience but anecdotal experiences.

Otherwise it's okay, let the child raise hell, no problem, right?

It's not letting them raise hell when their toys are put back on the shelf at the store, they loose TV/electronics time, no going out for ice cream, and they if they keep throwing a fit, you keep taking away privileges.

What's your evidence?

Pretty much the bulk majority of psychological research.

one cannot fine, jail, fire, remove driving privileges and more to a child either.

It's actually pretty easy to remove driving privileges from a child. They aren't going to get very far if you confiscate the license plate and/or keys.

 

[Quetzal]

It's not empirical experience but anecdotal experiences.

If my personal experiences create a certain outcome, it is an empirical experience. Arguing semantics without addressing the main points is rather fruitless, imo.

 

[Quetzal]

Out of curiosity, and just to make the conversation fair, do you have any children @Shadow Wolf ?

 

[Skwim]

Your experience is exactly what research has shown..
That those that are subject to Corporal punishment, tend to continue the practice them selves onto the next generation.
Your support of it confirms this.

Kind of like the religious faithful.


.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Out of curiosity, and just to make the conversation fair, do you have any children @Shadow Wolf ?

I have several nieces and nephews (they started coming when I was 8), have helped raised many of them, and even the unruly ones I can make them behave without having to hit them. The youngest, for example, while everyone else resorts to spankings, he knows I don't mess around if he misbehaves it means it means loosing his phone, tablet, internet access, games, and he will be doing nothing until his homework is done, reviewed, and corrected. His attitude even goes from hating everyone to being apologetic and loving.
I haven't pushed out any of my own kids, but I've been involved with child rearing enough to have observed methods that work only as a temporary quick fix and those that leave a long term impression.

 

[Quetzal]

I have several nieces and nephews (they started coming when I was 8), have helped raised many of them, and even the unruly ones I can make them behave without having to hit them. The youngest, for example, while everyone else resorts to spankings, he knows I don't mess around if he misbehaves it means it means loosing his phone, tablet, internet access, games, and he will be doing nothing until his homework is done, reviewed, and corrected. His attitude even goes from hating everyone to being apologetic and loving.
I haven't pushed out any of my own kids, but I've been involved with child rearing enough to have observed methods that work only as a temporary quick fix and those that leave a long term impression.

Thank you for your perspective, this helps me gain a better view of your own experiences related to the topic.

 

[Smart_Guy]

It's not letting them raise hell when their toys are put back on the shelf at the store, they loose TV/electronics time, no going out for ice cream, and they if they keep throwing a fit, you keep taking away privileges.

Ah, I don't include such stuff when I vote yes. It does mention "can be considered an option depending on different factors".

I have faith that at least some of who voted yes mean when nothing else ever works and there is no choice as a last resort for situations that are worth it.

 

[Valjean]

Hitting a child can inhibit undesirable behavior, but it doesn't teach a child why the behavior is undesirable or promote the development of internalized morality that would inhibit whole classes of harmful behaviors in the future.

Hitting doesn't educate, and I wouldn't count on the undesirable behavior remaining inhibited if the threat of imminent retaliation be removed.