Holes in the trinity

[sojourner]

To enter the Kingdom of God you must first become like children.

We're not talking about attitudes of people, we're talking about a theological stance, taking a position on the nature of God.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus does these things. Children listen.

Jesus also call some to a representative ministry, wherein those tasks are taken care of on his behalf. And the rest of the flock is supposed to listen.

 

[sojourner]

A strawman is changing the subject to something stupid.

No, that's more like a red herring. A straw man is setting up a false premise and then knocking it down, pretending that one has addressed the real premise, and thereby won the debate.

 

[Muffled]

To say that God is also fully human totally degrades our Creator. Your bringing Him down to our level. We should be raising ourselves up to His. We should be trying to manifest His will and character. There is one God, not two. God made Jesus a man, like us, same nature to conquer sin in the flesh. It had to be someone like us to do that. If Jesus was God, that wouldnt even make sense to over come something. God, Yahweh is his Father, and Jesus was born a man. He is the son of God and the son of man. Had to be both.

I believe calling God human is an error because it is the human being Jesus who is God. THe presence of a human body does not make God human but the presence of the Spirit of God makes Jesus God. There is no way to degrade God in or out of a body. He is Glorious no matter where He is.

I don't believe that is possible.

I believe that is true but it does not change the reality of the divinity of Jesus.

I believe it makes perfect sense. If God has never been in a body then He has never had to contend with the will of the flesh but of course He can overcome the flesh. I believe He just needed to prove it.

 

[Muffled]

Except that's the beauty of the theology. We cannot become pure enough for God, so God became dirty for us. That's the concept of grace -- that God comes to us, since we can't get to God. Ever see the Cistine Chapel fresco? That small space between the fingertips is a wide gulf that we can't bridge. But God can (and does). The beauty of the Trinity is that Jesus is both fully God and fully human, reflecting our nature as the imago dei -- the very image of God in the world.

I believe that qualifies as blasphemy because even in the flesh God was still without sin.

 

[Muffled]

HaShem is the only self-existent One. He is Creator not created. Humanity is created and is not self-existent.
Yeshua was human and was not self-existent. Because he was deemed worthy by HaShem to be His son and His Messiah he was resurrected to eternal life but even that eternal life is dependent upon HaShem keeping His promise, which of course He will. Something created can not be the Creator of that something. A human can not be 100% human and 100% non-human and HaShem can not be 100% non-human and 100% human. HaShem is the greatest mathematician and He is 100% HaShem, Yeshua is 100% human just as HaShem created him and the rest of humanity. It is simple, it is not a mystery but I understand that it is very difficult for most people who believe this mystery doctrine of the trinity to grasp these simple truths. People want God to be something more than they are (which HaShem clearly is) but they want Him to come down to our level somehow and bail us out. HaShem wants us to follow His instructions and His Messiah (which do not contradict) and come up to the level of humanity for which He created us but that takes work, commitment, steadfastness and submission of our wills to His. I rarely argue or even discuss the One true God-HaShem with those who are Trinitarian in their understanding because I believe that for the most part they do want to love their Creator and sincerely believe they are correct. I await the day when Yeshua is revealed by HaShem for who and what he is. Then we will all know the truth. And I imagine every one of us will have some tweaking of out understanding done then. But of course that brings in the idea of Hell and damnation which is anther area of great misunderstanding.

I believe the Spirit in Jesus is self-existent.

I believe this is true but the Spirit in Jesus can be.

I don't believe there is any scripture that supports this notion. I beleive it is like viewing the skin of an apple as 100% skin and the flesh of the apple as 100% flesh and skin and flesh make up an apple. A human being is flesh and spirit. The flesh part is 100% flesh and the spirit part is 100% spirit.

I believe He is never human because the Spirit will never be flesh.

I believe I have no problem understanding what you are saying but that does not make it the truth.

 

[sojourner]

I believe that qualifies as blasphemy because even in the flesh God was still without sin.

But God was "in the flesh." it doesn't qualify as "blasphemy."

 

[Muffled]

But God was "in the flesh." it doesn't qualify as "blasphemy."

I believe "dirty" implies sinfulness. If you are saying that "dirty " simply means in the flesh than I would disagree with that also and view that as the gnostic view that the flesh is evil. I believe one would expect it to be good since God created everything and declared it to be good.

If you are saying that He has to walk on the dirt and have it cling to His body I can agree with that and have learned that cleanliness is next to godliness.