Homosexual adoption - Abomination or not?

[nnmartin]

So your answer is to stick your fingers in your ears and say "LA LA LA LA LA LA I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU LA LA LA LA LA"
It's not worth actually discussing your complaints if you have no interest in listening.

I think what you meant to say was:

'If you don't agree with me and keep up this ludicrous idea of not supporting gay marriage and adoption then you are not worth talking to as you are obviously wrong'.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

to lack of sufficient income yet a gay couple can if they have enough money.

I did not read all pages but.......

Do you have any Idea how many unwanted children that are being passed from one foster home to the next in America. Our prisons are full of these kids when they grow up . There are no shortage of children to adopt in this country. I thank God for any Good folks gay or straight who adopt kids.

 

[Drolefille]

I think what you meant to say was:

'If you don't agree with me and keep up this ludicrous idea of not supporting gay marriage and adoption then you are not worth talking to as you are obviously wrong'.

No, I meant to tell you that you're hilariously wrong and typically offensive and can't back up a word of what you say with anything other than your bigotry.

That's cool though. Fight the good fight against the liberacefascists.

 

[Draka]

Fight the good fight against the liberacefascists.

Those damn Liberace Fascists! :biglaugh:

 

[Drolefille]

those damn liberace fascists! :biglaugh:

gay agenda!

 

[Draka]

gay agenda!

Oh noes Mr. Bill! :cover:

 

[Antiochian]

Think of all the reasons why children go into adoption...

Now, your saying that for most of those reasons that homosexual couples should not be allowed to help fix the problems that heterosexual couples created in the first place?

Bingo. As my friend says, "Someone has to fix the straight people's f-ups!"

 

[A.Anderson]

I've never discussed this issue so thought I would see what the general views were.

I am talking about homosexual adoption , ie: Two men or Two women as a couple legally adopting a young child.

As a general feeling I believe this to be wrong and should be banned for the good of the child.

Perhaps under certain scenarios it might be possible to a lesbian couple to adopt as women have naturally maternal instincts but I don't think two men would be appropriate.

I am not homophobic by the way.

any views or questions - please go ahead.

I believe everything you (nnmartin) find to be right is actually wrong. Ah, just saying stupid things that come to mind sure is easy, isn't it nnmartin, as this is your guide to posting.

But your bigoted, distorted views of reality again seem to be very wrong.
"Courts determine custody and visitation on the basis of the "best interests of the child." Current judicial rulings in some jurisdictions reflect a bias against awarding custody or granting visitation rights to homosexual parents, favoring the heterosexual parent or heterosexual relative of the child(ren). Should the sexual orientation of the parent play a part in the determination of custody or visitation in order to protect the child? This meta-analysis summarizes the available quantitative literature comparing the impact of heterosexual and homosexual parents, using a variety of measures, on the child(ren). The analyses examine parenting practices, the emotional well-being of the child, and the sexual orientation of the child. The results demonstrate no differences on any measures between the heterosexual and homosexual parents regarding parenting styles, emotional adjustment, and sexual orientation of the child(ren). In other words, the data fail to support the continuation of a bias against homosexual parents by any court."


nnmartin, you fail so hard.

 

[A.Anderson]

I believe everything you (nnmartin) find to be right is actually wrong. Ah, just saying stupid things that come to mind sure is easy, isn't it nnmartin, as this is your guide to posting.

But your bigoted, distorted views of reality again seem to be very wrong.
"Courts determine custody and visitation on the basis of the "best interests of the child." Current judicial rulings in some jurisdictions reflect a bias against awarding custody or granting visitation rights to homosexual parents, favoring the heterosexual parent or heterosexual relative of the child(ren). Should the sexual orientation of the parent play a part in the determination of custody or visitation in order to protect the child? This meta-analysis summarizes the available quantitative literature comparing the impact of heterosexual and homosexual parents, using a variety of measures, on the child(ren). The analyses examine parenting practices, the emotional well-being of the child, and the sexual orientation of the child. The results demonstrate no differences on any measures between the heterosexual and homosexual parents regarding parenting styles, emotional adjustment, and sexual orientation of the child(ren). In other words, the data fail to support the continuation of a bias against homosexual parents by any court."


nnmartin, you fail so hard.

15 posts, the link http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1997-08129-002

 

[glyphkenn]

I've never discussed this issue so thought I would see what the general views were.

I am talking about homosexual adoption , ie: Two men or Two women as a couple legally adopting a young child.

As a general feeling I believe this to be wrong and should be banned for the good of the child.

Perhaps under certain scenarios it might be possible to a lesbian couple to adopt as women have naturally maternal instincts but I don't think two men would be appropriate.

I am not homophobic by the way.

any views or questions - please go ahead.

Most couples have there own kids . Single parents also have there own kids. The fact is there are way to many kids in orphanages. What's your alternative to that. You cut off your right hand to spite your left hand.

 

[nnmartin]

I didn't think orphanages still existed in developed countries.

Perhaps you can correct me on that.

current judicial rulings in some jurisdictions reflect a bias against awarding custody or granting visitation rights to homosexual parents, favoring the heterosexual parent or heterosexual relative of the child(ren)

That is off-topic.

The thread is about homosexual abortion and gay marriage.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I didn't think orphanages still existed in developed countries.

Perhaps you can correct me on that.

There are less orphanages in the US, but they still exist. Most orphans are in foster care and/or group homes.

That is off-topic.

The thread is about homosexual abortion [sic] and gay marriage.

No, it fits in well with the topic of Homosexual Adoptions.

 

[thebigpicture]

A research study tested your theory and found you wrong. And your response was "I don't care"

That's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and not listening to anyone else.

No, you chose to interpret it immaturely. Pretty much the same way you chose to completely ignore the part of my post in which I mentioned that just as there are people who didn’t have a problem being raised by homosexual couples, there are also people who did have a problem with being raised by homosexual couples. There are those that felt weirded out by it and desired a more traditional male/female parental upbringing, but kept those negative feelings to themselves growing up because they did not want to offend or hurt their homosexual parents who really loved, cared and provided for them. I go by what I see and hear with my own two eyes and ears. And the fact that there are people that actually grew up with the experience of having homosexual parents saying that it had negative effects on them pretty much invalidates the “research” you keep swearing by. And that’s just people who, as adults, are willing to speak out about it. Just in case you didn’t already know it, people aren’t always 100% truthful when being researched. Just like there are those willing to speak the truth about the negative feelings they had growing up with homosexual parents, there are those that don’t feel comfortable doing so (no, not even for the sake of research) because they feel it would be disrespectful and/or disloyal to their homosexual parents.

As I said before, ask a little boy if he’d rather have two moms or a mom and a dad, or ask a little girl if she’d rather have two dads or a dad and a mom and see what their responses would be. Ask any child who has not been influenced in any way if they’d rather have two parents of the same gender or both a mom and a dad and see what’d they say. You know what they’d say -- ? That they want both a mom and a dad. You know why -- ? Because they know it’s better to have both. Even a child can see as clear as day that it’s better to have a mom and a dad. The only difference is that a child is willing to tell the truth about it whereas adults, such as yourself, don’t want to admit the truth because the truth goes against what you would like for the truth to be.

I reiterate... if given the choice, I would choose the fit heterosexual couple over the fit homosexual couple to adopt a child out to every time hands down. It’s better and it’s natural, period. I understand that you don’t like that, but your not liking it is irrelevant. When it comes to adoption, children should be put in the ideal situation; one that serves in the child’s best interest and it’s in a child’s best interest to be put into a home with fit parents of the opposite gender. Not a mother and a mother; not a father and a father. A mother and a father.

 

[tumbleweed41]

No, you chose to interpret it immaturely. Pretty much the same way you chose to completely ignore the part of my post in which I mentioned that just as there are people who didn’t have a problem being raised by homosexual couples, there are also people who did have a problem with being raised by homosexual couples. There are those that felt weirded out by it and desired a more traditional male/female parental upbringing, but kept those negative feelings to themselves growing up because they did not want to offend or hurt their homosexual parents who really loved, cared and provided for them. I go by what I see and hear with my own two eyes and ears. And the fact that there are people that actually grew up with the experience of having homosexual parents saying that it had negative effects on them pretty much invalidates the “research” you keep swearing by. And that’s just people who, as adults, are willing to speak out about it. Just in case you didn’t already know it, people aren’t always 100% truthful when being researched. Just like there are those willing to speak the truth about the negative feelings they had growing up with homosexual parents, there are those that don’t feel comfortable doing so (no, not even for the sake of research) because they feel it would be disrespectful and/or disloyal to their homosexual parents.

As I said before, ask a little boy if he’d rather have two moms or a mom and a dad, or ask a little girl if she’d rather have two dads or a dad and a mom and see what their responses would be. Ask any child who has not been influenced in any way if they’d rather have two parents of the same gender or both a mom and a dad and see what’d they say. You know what they’d say -- ? That they want both a mom and a dad. You know why -- ? Because they know it’s better to have both. Even a child can see as clear as day that it’s better to have a mom and a dad. The only difference is that a child is willing to tell the truth about it whereas adults, such as yourself, don’t want to admit the truth because the truth goes against what you would like for the truth to be.

I reiterate... if given the choice, I would choose the fit heterosexual couple over the fit homosexual couple to adopt a child out to every time hands down. It’s better and it’s natural, period. I understand that you don’t like that, but your not liking it is irrelevant. When it comes to adoption, children should be put in the ideal situation; one that serves in the child’s best interest and it’s in a child’s best interest to be put into a home with fit parents of the opposite gender. Not a mother and a mother; not a father and a father. A mother and a father.

So, I just asked my nephew if he would rather be raised by a mom and dad, or his two mothers.
He emphatically replied that he would not trade his two moms in for anybody.

Yeah, this poor kid in his Gifted and Talented placement in school, and two loving parents is really suffering....

 

[Drolefille]

No, you chose to interpret it immaturely. Pretty much the same way you chose to completely ignore the part of my post in which I mentioned that just as there are people who didn’t have a problem being raised by homosexual couples, there are also people who did have a problem with being raised by homosexual couples. There are those that felt weirded out by it and desired a more traditional male/female parental upbringing, but kept those negative feelings to themselves growing up because they did not want to offend or hurt their homosexual parents who really loved, cared and provided for them. I go by what I see and hear with my own two eyes and ears. And the fact that there are people that actually grew up with the experience of having homosexual parents saying that it had negative effects on them pretty much invalidates the “research” you keep swearing by. And that’s just people who, as adults, are willing to speak out about it. Just in case you didn’t already know it, people aren’t always 100% truthful when being researched. Just like there are those willing to speak the truth about the negative feelings they had growing up with homosexual parents, there are those that don’t feel comfortable doing so (no, not even for the sake of research) because they feel it would be disrespectful and/or disloyal to their homosexual parents.

As I said before, ask a little boy if he’d rather have two moms or a mom and a dad, or ask a little girl if she’d rather have two dads or a dad and a mom and see what their responses would be. Ask any child who has not been influenced in any way if they’d rather have two parents of the same gender or both a mom and a dad and see what’d they say. You know what they’d say -- ? That they want both a mom and a dad. You know why -- ? Because they know it’s better to have both. Even a child can see as clear as day that it’s better to have a mom and a dad. The only difference is that a child is willing to tell the truth about it whereas adults, such as yourself, don’t want to admit the truth because the truth goes against what you would like for the truth to be.

I reiterate... if given the choice, I would choose the fit heterosexual couple over the fit homosexual couple to adopt a child out to every time hands down. It’s better and it’s natural, period. I understand that you don’t like that, but your not liking it is irrelevant. When it comes to adoption, children should be put in the ideal situation; one that serves in the child’s best interest and it’s in a child’s best interest to be put into a home with fit parents of the opposite gender. Not a mother and a mother; not a father and a father. A mother and a father.

I didn't ignore it, I figured since you weren't going to be convinced by a controlled study that actually looked at the issues you're talking about and came to a conclusion you disagreed with you'd hardly be persuaded by anything else.

But since you insist: Children like, love, hate, disapprove etc. of their parents for all sorts of reasons. "Bad Parents" exist from all walks of life, races, SES, genders, and orientations. Researchers control for things like self-report and a desire to look good for whatever reason. Children may lie about their straight parents just as easily and IMO it's likely that the effect cancels itself out even when it shows up despite controls. Regardless it's controlled for in 'my' research. Your anecdotal experience is your experience but it isn't relevant to the population as a whole.

Ask a little boy who has two moms if he'd rather give up a mom for a dad and he'll probably say no. Unless he's upset at a parent and then he'll trade her for Lebron James in a heart beat. Point is, we don't ask kids to pick their parents (outside of harsh custody cases and even there they're not picking a new parent) for a reason. And yet it works out just fine more often than not. Not all the time, bad parents exist. But this is a universal phenomenon, not something independent to same-sex couples.

And even if you continue to disbelieve all that -natural bull aside, clothing isn't natural and neither are eyeglasses - there kids languishing in foster care, group homes and orphanages because there aren't enough homes for them. Do you really feel that they should be deprived of a home because you don't think it's the 'best' home when it is identical in every way to the home of a heterosexual couple except for the gender of the parents? So what's more important, prejudice or children? Because if you won't drop the prejudice, I'd at least like to see you do what is best for children since you claim that as the priority.

And again, research shows none of the claims of "best" to be true.

 

[thebigpicture]

So, I just asked my nephew if he would rather be raised by a mom and dad, or his two mothers.
He emphatically replied that he would not trade his two moms in for anybody.

Ya think? Don't you see the error in what you did? You asked a child who has two loving parents if they wanted someone else to replace them. Of course he is not going to want to “trade them.” You should not even have had to ask him that to know the answer. What you asked him would be the equivalent of asking an adopted child who has been in a loving, caring, happy home since they were born if they want to go live with their biological parents who all of a sudden want them. Do you actually think they would want to be separated from their loving parents? Why do I even have to point that out to you? I don’t even have to use adoption as an example of that. There are children of divorce that don’t want anyone to “replace” their loving biological dad or mom with a stepparent. That’s common sense. Go back and re-read what I wrote. I said to take any child -- who has not been influenced in any way -- and ask them if they’d rather have parents of the same gender or both a mother and a father and see what they’d say.

Yeah, this poor kid in his Gifted and Talented placement in school, and two loving parents is really suffering....

Go back and read my post again and you'll see how this statement is irrelevant in response to what I was stating.

 

[Storm]

Ya think? Don't you see the error in what you did? You asked a child who has two loving parents if they wanted someone else to replace them. Of course he is not going to want to “trade them.” You should not even have had to ask him that to know the answer. What you asked him would be the equivalent of asking an adopted child who has been in a loving, caring, happy home since they were born if they want to go live with their biological parents who all of a sudden want them. Do you actually think they would want to be separated from their loving parents? Why do I even have to point that out to you? I don’t even have to use adoption as an example of that. There are children of divorce that don’t want anyone to “replace” their loving biological dad or mom with a stepparent. That’s common sense. Go back and re-read what I wrote. I said to take any child -- who has not been influenced in any way -- and ask them if they’d rather have parents of the same gender or both a mother and a father and see what they’d say.

Such a child does not exist, so your argument is moot.

 

[thebigpicture]

But since you insist: Children like, love, hate, disapprove etc. of their parents for all sorts of reasons. "Bad Parents" exist from all walks of life, races, SES, genders, and orientations. Researchers control for things like self-report and a desire to look good for whatever reason. Children may lie about their straight parents just as easily and IMO it's likely that the effect cancels itself out even when it shows up despite controls.

(Chuckles) Throughout your entire reply, you went round and round in circles and basically made no valid points. You were going on and on about things supposedly in response to something I wrote that I actually never even mentioned. These are signs of someone who feels cornered by the truth which is in this case -- it’s better for a child to have both a mom and a dad.

I never said the homosexual parents I mentioned were bad parents. So don’t try to twist it and make it seem as if I did. As a matter of fact, I mentioned more than once how the adults who experienced negative effects kept quiet because their homosexual parents were loving, caring and provided for them; that they didn’t want to hurt their homosexual parents’ feelings or offend them in any way. But again you chose to ignore that fact altogether because it doesn’t paint the picture you want painted.

Your anecdotal experience is your experience...

What on earth on you talking about? This is not my personal experience. It is the experience of people who were actually raised by homosexual parents. Again, just like there are people that had no problems with being raised by homosexual parents, there are people who did experience negative effects. Not because they had bad homosexual parents, or they were angry at something their parents did, but because there were things they felt they missed out on as children that children who had the more traditional male/female parenting had.

...but it isn't relevant to the population as a whole.


Regardless it's controlled for in 'my' research.

Are you saying that your “controlled study” accounts for the entire population of people who grew up in homosexual households? Who’s the one being biased towards a particular conclusion here? I’ve acknowledged that some people don’t have any negative feelings, but you don’t want to acknowledge that there are those that do have negative feelings. I’m sure you would like to disregard those particular people and their negative feelings because it does not support your “research’s” conclusion that there is absolutely no difference between heterosexual and homosexual parental households. Well, the fact of the matter is that there is a difference between the two. It’s common sense and as I stated before even a child could see it. Not a child who has already been influenced by already having same-gender parents, but a child who has not been influenced in any way -- a distinction I made clear in my last post that you again...chose to ignore.

Ask a little boy who has two moms if he'd rather give up a mom for a dad and he'll probably say no. Unless he's upset at a parent and then he'll trade her for Lebron James in a heart beat. Point is, we don't ask kids to pick their parents (outside of harsh custody cases and even there they're not picking a new parent) for a reason. And yet it works out just fine more often than not. Not all the time, bad parents exist. But this is a universal phenomenon, not something independent to same-sex couples.

Refer to what I wrote to Tumbleweed 41. The same reply applies here.

And even if you continue to disbelieve all that -natural bull aside, clothing isn't natural and neither are eyeglasses...

What? What on earth -- ? (lol) Are you kidding me? Clothes? Eyeglasses? Really? I’m sorry, but that’s just silly. Moving on...

there kids languishing in foster care, group homes and orphanages because there aren't enough homes for them. Do you really feel that they should be deprived of a home because you don't think it's the 'best' home when it is identical in every way to the home of a heterosexual couple except for the gender of the parents? So what's more important, prejudice or children? Because if you won't drop the prejudice, I'd at least like to see you do what is best for children since you claim that as the priority.

Again, all that you wrote is totally irrelevant and an altogether invalid response to what I wrote because as I’ve stated (last count) twice before: if given the choice between a fit heterosexual couple and a fit homosexual couple, I would choose the heterosexual couple to adopt the child out to. In other words, two couples are ready to adopt. Both fit. One heterosexual; one homosexual. Plain and simple. The choice is not between two unfit couples or one fit and the other unfit -- I stated two fit couples. One heterosexual; one homosexual. I would choose the heterosexual (that makes four times) because it is the ideal choice and would be in the child’s best interest to grow up with both a father and a mother. There’s no getting around that. Anybody who is honest will agree that it is better to have both a mother and a father. There are things that are better suited for a father and things that are better suited for a mother. There are things that a man cannot truly relate to and there are things that a woman cannot truly relate to. It’s better to have both perspectives when raising a child. That is just clear as day to see whether you like or not; whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I didn't think orphanages still existed in developed countries.

Perhaps you can correct me on that.



That is off-topic.

The thread is about homosexual abortion and gay marriage.

I would say it is on Topic. Since we are breading an Army of children with attachment disorders in our modern form of orphanages called the foster care. We need every caring adult Gay or straight to help.

Attachment disorder is transmitted intergenerationally. Children lacking secure attachments with caregivers commonly grow up to be parents who are incapable of establishing this crucial foundation with their own children. Instead of following the instinct to protect, nurture and love their children, they abuse, neglect and abandon. The situation is out of control. Consider the following:
The number of children seriously injured by maltreatment quadrupled from 1986 (140,000) to 1993 (600,000).
Three million cases of maltreatment were investigated by Child Protective Services in 1995. Over one million were confirmed as serious abuse and/or neglect with risk for continued maltreatment. Surveys indicated the actual number of cases are 10 to 16 times higher.
Child Protective Services are unable to handle the vast increases; only 28% of seriously maltreated children were evaluated in 1993 compared to 45% in 1986.
One in 10 children and adolescents in the U.S. today has emotional problems so severe that they cannot function normally.
21% of children in the U.S. ages 9 to 17 have diagnosable mental or addictive disorders.
The current generation of children is more likely to be depressed and anxious than its parents' generation; the number of children and teens taking medication for depression (Prozac) and ADHD (Ritalin) more than doubled between 1987 and 1996.
Since the 1980's, the number of murders committed by youths has soared 168% and suicides increased 140%; suicide is the third leading cause of death among young people.
2000 children in the U.S. die each year from abuse and neglect.
One in four adolescents is at risk of not achi(eving a productive and fulfilling adulthood; 50% report smoking marijuana, 30% use other illicit drugs, and one-third engage in binge drinking; 20% consider suicide; 40% witness serious violence; and 11% drop out of high school.
15% of 18 to 24 year olds are "disconnected;" almost 4 million young adults are not in school or working, a disturbing trendQuartz & Sejnowski 2002; Institute for American Values 2003; Kids Count 2004)


Attachment Disorder Experts - Psychological Services for Reactive Attachment Disorders

 

[Viker]

"What on earth on you talking about? This is not my personal experience. It is the experience of people who were actually raised by homosexual parents. Again, just like there are people that had no problems with being raised by homosexual parents, there are people who did experience negative effects. Not because they had bad homosexual parents, or they were angry at something their parents did, but because there were things they felt they missed out on as children that children who had the more traditional male/female parenting had."

In other words, it isn't because their parents were homosexual. It's because they had a negative experience with their parents being homosexual. And if it is because their parents were homosexual, it may be they had issue with that themselves. If they received love and care then turned out fine and are not for the worse....what was their problem again?