Homosexual adoption - Abomination or not?

[Me Myself]

sense. Go back and re-read what I wrote. I said to take any child -- who has not been influenced in any way -- and ask them if they’d rather have parents of the same gender or both a mother and a father and see what they’d say.

:lmao Childs that have not been influenced in any way? where are you supposed to find those childs? In a room for comma pacients since birth?

 

[beenie]

No, you chose to interpret it immaturely. Pretty much the same way you chose to completely ignore the part of my post in which I mentioned that just as there are people who didn’t have a problem being raised by homosexual couples, there are also people who did have a problem with being raised by homosexual couples. There are those that felt weirded out by it and desired a more traditional male/female parental upbringing, but kept those negative feelings to themselves growing up because they did not want to offend or hurt their homosexual parents who really loved, cared and provided for them. I go by what I see and hear with my own two eyes and ears. And the fact that there are people that actually grew up with the experience of having homosexual parents saying that it had negative effects on them pretty much invalidates the “research” you keep swearing by. And that’s just people who, as adults, are willing to speak out about it. Just in case you didn’t already know it, people aren’t always 100% truthful when being researched. Just like there are those willing to speak the truth about the negative feelings they had growing up with homosexual parents, there are those that don’t feel comfortable doing so (no, not even for the sake of research) because they feel it would be disrespectful and/or disloyal to their homosexual parents.

As I said before, ask a little boy if he’d rather have two moms or a mom and a dad, or ask a little girl if she’d rather have two dads or a dad and a mom and see what their responses would be. Ask any child who has not been influenced in any way if they’d rather have two parents of the same gender or both a mom and a dad and see what’d they say. You know what they’d say -- ? That they want both a mom and a dad. You know why -- ? Because they know it’s better to have both. Even a child can see as clear as day that it’s better to have a mom and a dad. The only difference is that a child is willing to tell the truth about it whereas adults, such as yourself, don’t want to admit the truth because the truth goes against what you would like for the truth to be.

I reiterate... if given the choice, I would choose the fit heterosexual couple over the fit homosexual couple to adopt a child out to every time hands down. It’s better and it’s natural, period. I understand that you don’t like that, but your not liking it is irrelevant. When it comes to adoption, children should be put in the ideal situation; one that serves in the child’s best interest and it’s in a child’s best interest to be put into a home with fit parents of the opposite gender. Not a mother and a mother; not a father and a father. A mother and a father.

Children will always answer based on what they are indoctrinated with. How can a child know whether they'd prefer gay parents if they've never been exposed to them? Children want a happy, stable, loving home...that's universal. There are plenty of children who are raised by a single mom/grandmother, single father/grandfather team, and all is well. No different than a gay couple; it's not like they're having sex in front of the children.

Go back and re-read what I wrote. I said to take any child -- who has not been influenced in any way -- and ask them if they’d rather have parents of the same gender or both a mother and a father and see what they’d say.

Haha, good luck with that. Too bad newborns can't speak.

 

[Drolefille]

(Chuckles) Throughout your entire reply, you went round and round in circles and basically made no valid points. You were going on and on about things supposedly in response to something I wrote that I actually never even mentioned. These are signs of someone who feels cornered by the truth which is in this case -- it’s better for a child to have both a mom and a dad.

In your opinion only. The Proposition 8 proponents in their court trial took this standpoint and could not only find any actual harm done to children, but though they attempted to argue that having heterosexual parents was preferable, admitted on the stand that there was no such evidence.

I never said the homosexual parents I mentioned were bad parents. So don’t try to twist it and make it seem as if I did. As a matter of fact, I mentioned more than once how the adults who experienced negative effects kept quiet because their homosexual parents were loving, caring and provided for them; that they didn’t want to hurt their homosexual parents’ feelings or offend them in any way. But again you chose to ignore that fact altogether because it doesn’t paint the picture you want painted.

And those answers were compared against kids from straight parents who didn't want to say anything bad about their straight parents for the same reasons. You snipped out the part where I mentioned this.

What on earth on you talking about? This is not my personal experience. It is the experience of people who were actually raised by homosexual parents. Again, just like there are people that had no problems with being raised by homosexual parents, there are people who did experience negative effects. Not because they had bad homosexual parents, or they were angry at something their parents did, but because there were things they felt they missed out on as children that children who had the more traditional male/female parenting had.

Which is anecdotal evidence. It is your personal recollection of the things you've been told and your personal view of it through your own personal bias. None of that makes it data. And the data shows that the experiences are equivalent.

Are you saying that your “controlled study” accounts for the entire population of people who grew up in homosexual households?

It's called a sample size. It doesn't mean that no one had negative comments, it means that overall the experiences of any one child growing up in either type home had the same odds to be good or bad - or slightly better if growing up in a lesbian home.

Who’s the one being biased towards a particular conclusion here? I’ve acknowledged that some people don’t have any negative feelings, but you don’t want to acknowledge that there are those that do have negative feelings.

No you misunderstand what the data means.

I’m sure you would like to disregard those particular people and their negative feelings because it does not support your “research’s” conclusion that there is absolutely no difference between heterosexual and homosexual parental households.

No, but there are plenty of people with unhappy experiences in either. But a child's odds of having negative experiences is equal in either household.

Well, the fact of the matter is that there is a difference between the two.

Yes the average child in a lesbian household has a slightly better chance of having positive experiences than those in a straight household.

It’s common sense and as I stated before even a child could see it.

It is common sense that the sun goes around the earth. Even a child could see it.

Not a child who has already been influenced by already having same-gender parents, but a child who has not been influenced in any way -- a distinction I made clear in my last post that you again...chose to ignore.

No such child exists. I do tend to ignore imaginary things if I'm not reading a fictional novel.

What? What on earth -- ? (lol) Are you kidding me? Clothes? Eyeglasses? Really? I’m sorry, but that’s just silly. Moving on...

If your argument is to only do what is natural, you're doing it wrong.

Again, all that you wrote is totally irrelevant and an altogether invalid response to what I wrote because as I’ve stated (last count) twice before: if given the choice between a fit heterosexual couple and a fit homosexual couple, I would choose the heterosexual couple to adopt the child out to. In other words, two couples are ready to adopt. Both fit. One heterosexual; one homosexual. Plain and simple. The choice is not between two unfit couples or one fit and the other unfit -- I stated two fit couples.

It's a false choice, the real situation is that there are 100 kids and 20 fit couples. If that.

One heterosexual; one homosexual. I would choose the heterosexual (that makes four times) because it is the ideal choice and would be in the child’s best interest to grow up with both a father and a mother.

In your opinion.

There’s no getting around that.

In your opinion.

Anybody who is honest will agree that it is better to have both a mother and a father.

Lol. Yeah that's right, everyone who disagrees with you is dishonest.

There are things that are better suited for a father and things that are better suited for a mother.

So now we're into gender roles.

There are things that a man cannot truly relate to and there are things that a woman cannot truly relate to.

And we know that kids always grow up in a vacuum.

It’s better to have both perspectives when raising a child.

So really wouldn't it be better to have two moms raise daughters and two dads raise sons if that's what its about.

That is just clear as day to see whether you like or not; whether you want to admit it or not.

So you're not really here to debate.

I'm going to go with your way.

It's clear as day that same sex parents are as least as good if not better for kids as parents than straight ones. Whether you want to admit it or not.

You're right that's so much easier than learning.

 

[tumbleweed41]

...a child who has two loving parents ...

Exactly.

 

[Alceste]

No, you chose to interpret it immaturely. Pretty much the same way you chose to completely ignore the part of my post in which I mentioned that just as there are people who didn’t have a problem being raised by homosexual couples, there are also people who did have a problem with being raised by homosexual couples. There are those that felt weirded out by it and desired a more traditional male/female parental upbringing, but kept those negative feelings to themselves growing up because they did not want to offend or hurt their homosexual parents who really loved, cared and provided for them. I go by what I see and hear with my own two eyes and ears. And the fact that there are people that actually grew up with the experience of having homosexual parents saying that it had negative effects on them pretty much invalidates the “research” you keep swearing by. And that’s just people who, as adults, are willing to speak out about it. Just in case you didn’t already know it, people aren’t always 100% truthful when being researched. Just like there are those willing to speak the truth about the negative feelings they had growing up with homosexual parents, there are those that don’t feel comfortable doing so (no, not even for the sake of research) because they feel it would be disrespectful and/or disloyal to their homosexual parents.

As I said before, ask a little boy if he’d rather have two moms or a mom and a dad, or ask a little girl if she’d rather have two dads or a dad and a mom and see what their responses would be. Ask any child who has not been influenced in any way if they’d rather have two parents of the same gender or both a mom and a dad and see what’d they say. You know what they’d say -- ? That they want both a mom and a dad. You know why -- ? Because they know it’s better to have both. Even a child can see as clear as day that it’s better to have a mom and a dad. The only difference is that a child is willing to tell the truth about it whereas adults, such as yourself, don’t want to admit the truth because the truth goes against what you would like for the truth to be.

I reiterate... if given the choice, I would choose the fit heterosexual couple over the fit homosexual couple to adopt a child out to every time hands down. It’s better and it’s natural, period. I understand that you don’t like that, but your not liking it is irrelevant. When it comes to adoption, children should be put in the ideal situation; one that serves in the child’s best interest and it’s in a child’s best interest to be put into a home with fit parents of the opposite gender. Not a mother and a mother; not a father and a father. A mother and a father.

Ask any child if they'd rather have two white parents or one black parent and one white parent! Ask any child if they'd rather their parents be rich or poor! Ask any child if they'd rather their dad was Spiderman or a proctologist! Ask any child if there's any such thing as the tooth fairy!

What an incredibly high standard of reasoning you are reaching for in your ethical contemplation! We should obviously make laws that ensure every child gets their absolute ideal parents - anything less would be immoral.

FYI, I would rather have had an extra mom than a bipolar dad, but so what?

 

[thebigpicture]

Such a child does not exist, so your argument is moot.

Haha, good luck with that. Too bad newborns can't speak.

No such child exists. I do tend to ignore imaginary things if I'm not reading a fictional novel.

:lmao Childs that have not been influenced in any way? where are you supposed to find those childs? In a room for comma pacients since birth?

Uh, you can start with the obvious... an orphanage. I tell you what, go to an orphanage and have three couples stand before a child: a male/male, female/female and male/female. Then ask the child who he/she wants to go home with. Nine times out of ten, that child is going to choose the mother/father choice. You know why? Because common sense tells them it’s the best of both worlds. Why have two of the same when you can have one of each? Need an example?

A customer walks into a retailer. He/she tells a rep that they want to buy two things: the best smartphone and the best MP3 player to carry with them all the time. The rep shows the customer the best MP3 player on the market; it meets all the requirements the customer is looking for. Then the rep shows them the best smartphone on the market; it meets all the requirements the customer is looking for. Finally the rep shows him/her a device that is both a smartphone and a MP3 player. He goes on to tell the customer that it does everything that both the individual MP3 player and the individual smartphone do; that it is the top of the line and by all accounts (critics and customers alike) the best on the market and it costs about the same as the combined price of the individual MP3 player and individual smartphone. The rep then asks, “So which would you like to buy today?” Which one do you think the customer is going to choose?

There are so many other examples I give like this, I could go on and on, but I’m sure you can get the point (or at least you should); that point being -- the example includes a choice that combines the best of both worlds which is what you’re giving a child when you place them into a fit home that has both a mother and a father. It’s as simple as that. What a child doesn’t feel comfortable talking about or doing with their father, they can with their mother; what they don’t feel comfortable talking about or doing with their mother, they can with their father. Two genders. Two perspectives. To viewpoints of life. Bases covered from both angles...benefits the child. Plain and simple.

In other words, it isn't because their parents were homosexual. It's because they had a negative experience with their parents being homosexual. And if it is because their parents were homosexual, it may be they had issue with that themselves.

You'll have to go back and read my post. I covered this already.

If they received love and care then turned out fine and are not for the worse....what was their problem again?

A lot of people turn out okay though they had negative experiences growing up. Does the fact they "turned out fine" invalidate their feelings about their negative experiences? I think not.

Children will always answer based on what they are indoctrinated with. How can a child know whether they'd prefer gay parents if they've never been exposed to them? Children want a happy, stable, loving home...that's universal. There are plenty of children who are raised by a single mom/grandmother, single father/grandfather team, and all is well. No different than a gay couple; it's not like they're having sex in front of the children.

(sighs) What -- what on earth on you talking about? One expression -- Off base.

 

[beenie]

Uh, you can start with the obvious... an orphanage. I tell you what, go to an orphanage and have three couples stand before a child: a male/male, female/female and male/female. Then ask the child who he/she wants to go home with. Nine times out of ten, that child is going to choose the mother/father choice. You know why? Because common sense tells them it’s the best of both worlds. Why have two of the same when you can have one of each? Need an example?

Maybe, maybe not. Have you personally gone to an orphanage and asked? Problem is, there obviously aren't enough male/female couples out there adopting orphans, are there?

A customer walks into a retailer. He/she tells a rep that they want to buy two things: the best smartphone and the best MP3 player to carry with them all the time. The rep shows the customer the best MP3 player on the market; it meets all the requirements the customer is looking for. Then the rep shows them the best smartphone on the market; it meets all the requirements the customer is looking for. Finally the rep shows him/her a device that is both a smartphone and a MP3 player. He goes on to tell the customer that it does everything that both the individual MP3 player and the individual smartphone do; that it is the top of the line and by all accounts (critics and customers alike) the best on the market and it costs about the same as the combined price of the individual MP3 player and individual smartphone. The rep then asks, “So which would you like to buy today?” Which one do you think the customer is going to choose?

Comparing children/families to MP3 players? Did you say I'm off base? :biglaugh:

(sighs) What -- what on earth on you talking about? One expression -- Off base.

(sighs)

 

[Me Myself]

Uh, you can start with the obvious... an orphanage. I tell you what, go to an orphanage and have three couples stand before a child: a male/male, female/female and male/female. Then ask the child who he/she wants to go home with. Nine times out of ten, that child is going to choose the mother/father choice. You know why? Because common sense tells them it’s the best of both worlds. Why have two of the same when you can have one of each? Need an example?

s/he would also prefer a pretty mother over a not so pretty. A rich family above one not so rich. A family of his race. A family with a playstation in his room

Should we only let pretty rich people with playstations in their child´s room adopt children?

Ultimately what matters is if the family will love the child, and even though he may have chosen the rich one, the one of his same race, the pretty one, w /e. What he truly needs is someone to hug and someone who takes care and interest in him from a personal level.

And that characteristic isn´t dependant on sexuality. Is dependant on the ability to love, nothing more

 

[beenie]

Children are fickle.

Tomorrow I'm going to ask my 5-year-old who she wishes her parents were after I tell her she can't open her packet of Skittles. Wanna bet she WON'T pick me?

Very reliable, those little stinkers.

 

[Me Myself]

Even my ideal, IMAGINARY children would prefer Batman as a father than me.

On one side, I know this means I haven´t teach them the right comics yet, on another side, who can blame them?

Nightwing is awesome

 

[thebigpicture]

In your opinion only. The Proposition 8 proponents in their court trial took this standpoint and could not only find any actual harm done to children, but though they attempted to argue that having heterosexual parents was preferable, admitted on the stand that there was no such evidence.

It's called a sample size. It doesn't mean that no one had negative comments, it means that overall the experiences of any one child growing up in either type home had the same odds to be good or bad - or slightly better if growing up in a lesbian home.

No you misunderstand what the data means.

Let’s me first get to this whole “controlled study” “research” thing that you keep swearing by. They’re irrelevant. You know why? Because a controlled group of people cannot speak for billions more. Simple as that. Do you actually think that the majority of a specific group of people accurately depict the feelings of millions more? So let’s say after studying 300 -- no bigger -- let’s say after studying 30,000 people, a particular conclusion is reached -- in your opinion that accounts for billions of people in the world? Really? So if someone walks into a room filled with about 500 people and takes a survey on whether it feels great outside and the majority says “yes” does that mean the rest of the people in the entire city feels the same? Are you kidding me? Your mentality is obviously completely different from mine because I don’t buy into studies as much as you do. Not when it involves what people emotionally feel. Studies are a dime a dozen and the results change frequently. How many times do you hear the media use the phrase, “Studies show that...” only for them to come right back later and say, “Studies now show that...”? It happens all the time. They’ll say that this study or that survey or that poll shows one thing and then come right back and say that another study, survey or poll shows the complete opposite. You know why? Because you cannot include billions of people in a study. You can only do a select group at a time. And, again, a select group does not accurately depict millions (or billions for that matter) more.

And those answers were compared against kids from straight parents who didn't want to say anything bad about their straight parents for the same reasons. You snipped out the part where I mentioned this.

I "snipped" it because it was irrelevant. Some children may be dissatisfied with the parenting of their heterosexual parents, but nine times out of ten any problems they have has nothing to do with the fact that their parents are paired as a man and a woman.

Which is anecdotal evidence. It is your personal recollection of the things you've been told and your personal view of it through your own personal bias.

So let me get this straight... when I acknowledge that just like there are people who didn’t have a problem being raised by homosexual couples, there are also people that did have problems being raised by homosexual couples, that’s my “personal view of it through (my) own personal bias.” But when you keep going on and on about your “controlled study” -- that’s not your “recollection of the things you’ve been told and your personal view of it through your own personal bias?” Double standards lately? You do see how ridiculous you sound, don’t you? Stop trying to make this about me. This is about people that were raised by homosexual couples. When people talk or write about knowledge they've gained in the world, they're not always doing it out of a bias. They're simply relaying what they heard, saw, read, etc., while discussing it with others. It's not a complicated concept.

None of that makes it data. And the data shows that the experiences are equivalent.

Do you see how crazy this sounds? Do you really think that something has to be recorded and concluded in a study in order for it to exist or be true? You’re telling me you can see something or hear it for yourself, but if studies don’t show it, you don’t accept it. You’re quite delusional.

No, but there are plenty of people with unhappy experiences in either. But a child's odds of having negative experiences is equal in either household.

Having negative experiences based on the fact that the parents are homosexual is an experience that can't be avoided from the start by putting the child in a male/female home.

Yes the average child in a lesbian household has a slightly better chance of having positive experiences than those in a straight household.

Keep believing that if it brightens your day.

If your argument is to only do what is natural, you're doing it wrong

Go back and read all my posts. I clearly list some of the reasons why a child should be placed in a male/female home. It being the natural was not only reason listed.

It's a false choice, the real situation is that there are 100 kids and 20 fit couples. If that.

I definitely agree 100% that parents aren't half as good as they used to be for various reasons. But 100:20, not so much.

In your opinion.

In your opinion.

You can call it an opinion. But it's also the truth.

Lol. Yeah that's right, everyone who disagrees with you is dishonest.

edit

It is common sense that the sun goes around the earth. Even a child could see it.

So really wouldn't it be better to have two moms raise daughters and two dads raise sons if that's what its about.

What? Huh? Yeeeah. Okay.

And we know that kids always grow up in a vacuum.

So now we're into gender roles.

(snaps finger) Focus. Stop trying to twist everything and make this about something that it is not. There is a difference between a man and a woman. Do you really need to be told this? There are things about a man’s mentality that a woman can’t truly understand and there are things about a woman’s mentality that a man can’t truly understand. There are things that go on with a man’s body that a woman can't completely relate to because they are not men; there are things that go on with a woman’s body that a man can’t completely relate to because they’re not women. Men can’t see through women’s eyes; women can’t see through men’s eyes. How many times do you hear women say “Why can’t men just understand us” or men saying, “Women just don’t get it”? It’s not about gender roles. It’s about factual differences between men and women. Stop acting like you don’t understand that when you know you do.

So you're not really here to debate.

Do you even know what “debate” means? ‘Cause the last time I checked, that’s pretty much what we were doing. You’re giving me your views; I’m giving you mine. You’re telling me why you think my view is wrong; I’m telling you why I think yours is. Let me think...yeah, that pretty much falls into the category of debate. For future reference...just because you fail to prove your side of things or just because you fail to change a person’s point of view (and fail you have) doesn’t mean it’s not a debate.

You're right that's so much easier than learning.

I love learning. Life is about learning. It is key. Only thing is...You seem to be overestimating your position and/or ability to teach regarding this matter. I'm sorry, but I don't see any chance of learning much from you on this topic.

 

[beenie]

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