Homosexual Question

[Aquitaine]

Also, again you think Sexualit is some sort of "choice", that Homo-Sexuals can choose to be Hetero again.

That right there is nonsense, where is your proof of it?

The only people who could "choose" their sexuality to some degree are Bi-Sexuals.

I'm Hetero (contrary to what many believe ), does that mean I can "choose" to become Homo now?

 

[Kerr]

Ok, after reading this thread I must ask eselem this one thing... do you seriously believe it is right to kill homosexuals who will not change to control their urges?

 

[Quiddity]

This really does confirm how wrong Sam Harris is about moderates being no different then there more fundamentalist brothers to the East. I couldn't get myself to do any of this stuff to anyone of the Gay community. I'd cease being Catholic.

 

[dragynfly0515]

it is an islamic law that homosexuals are to be killed if it can be proven that they actually are homosexual and when asked to change his ways, he refuses. but you must note that by changing his ways it means that he gets proper help and is willing to change back to being a heterosexual.

quote]

As a bisexual, I find it disturbing that the idea of killing someone based on their sexual orientation is seriously being discussed. I can't imagine worshipping a god that condones such behaviour.

:candle:
Crys

 

[Gharib]

Why would homosexuality be the same as or worse than rape? Homosexuality is a state of being; it is an identification, a label or a physical state/feeling. You can be a homosexual and not even have sex. Or you can be a homosexual and have sex with a consenting partner.

Rape on the other hand is always a physical abuse to a non consenting partner. It inevitably involves an innocent person who is being forced into a situation, and hurt physically or scarred mentally.

So I ask again, how could -being- a homosexual be the same as or worse than a rapist?

i didn't say that homosexuality is worse than rape or equla to it. i said i don't know which one is worser than which. but both are considered bad in islam hence the punishment.

 

[Madhuri]

i didn't say that homosexuality is worse than rape or equla to it. i said i don't know which one is worser than which. but both are considered bad in islam hence the punishment.

You mean according to law?
I see.

 

[Gharib]

As a bisexual, I find it disturbing that the idea of killing someone based on their sexual orientation is seriously being discussed. I can't imagine worshipping a god that condones such behaviour.
:candle:
Crys

i can't imagine worshiping a god other than him, i love him more than anything.
what does your religion/god say about rape?

 

[Gharib]

You mean according to law?
I see.

what do you mean according to law?

 

[Madhuri]

what do you mean according to law?

I was asking if you were talking about the Islamic laws...that you don't know if Islamic laws in general tend to view either rape or homosexuality as better/worse/equal. Is that correct?

 

[TheKnight]

Also, again you think Sexualit is some sort of "choice", that Homo-Sexuals can choose to be Hetero again.

That right there is nonsense, where is your proof of it?

The only people who could "choose" their sexuality to some degree are Bi-Sexuals.

I'm Hetero (contrary to what many believe ), does that mean I can "choose" to become Homo now?

I wouldn't say that they can choose to be homo/hetero. At least, not in the sense of waking up one day and saying "I think I'm going to go be hetero today."

However, to say that it cannot be changed is absolutely ridiculous. The entire profession of psychology/psychiatry circulates around people changing aspects of their psychology that they were born with. A schizophrenic, with appropriate treatment, can be made normal again. Similarly, a homosexual, with appropriate treatment, can be made a heterosexual. The human mind is very moldable.

 

[blackout]

I wouldn't say that they can choose to be homo/hetero. At least, not in the sense of waking up one day and saying "I think I'm going to go be hetero today."

However, to say that it cannot be changed is absolutely ridiculous. The entire profession of psychology/psychiatry circulates around people changing aspects of their psychology that they were born with. A schizophrenic, with appropriate treatment, can be made normal again. Similarly, a homosexual, with appropriate treatment, can be made a heterosexual. The human mind is very moldable.

Which explains why people like you would seek
to try and change people who are just fine the way they are.

If your religion hadn't molded your mind
to the 'importance' of such an innane and cruel idea,
I guarantee you wouldn't have come up with it on your own.

Why don't we start by deprogramming all the religious.
after all... as you said... the human mind is very moldable.

 

[Draka]

I wouldn't say that they can choose to be homo/hetero. At least, not in the sense of waking up one day and saying "I think I'm going to go be hetero today."

However, to say that it cannot be changed is absolutely ridiculous. The entire profession of psychology/psychiatry circulates around people changing aspects of their psychology that they were born with. A schizophrenic, with appropriate treatment, can be made normal again. Similarly, a homosexual, with appropriate treatment, can be made a heterosexual. The human mind is very moldable.

First off, homosexuality is not a mental illness to be "treated". It is a sexual orientation just like heterosexuality. If homosexuality is a mental illness then so is heterosexuality and either could be controlled/regulated through medicine. As of yet I have never heard of any pill that one could take that would change my attraction to men into an attraction to women, nor make it more likely for me to fall in love with women rather than men.

There is no "appropriate treatment" for homosexuality or bisexuality that would make them ever become heterosexual and anyone who says there is is lying through their flapping gums. You can't change a homosexual into a heterosexual. You may find some very few people who are homosexual who say they are heterosexual and try to live like a heterosexual in order to appear like they are "normal" due to religious/familial pressure, but sorry to tell you, that doesn't change the fact that they are homosexual. The attraction doesn't disappear, it is just denied. A person who denies their true nature, the very basis of who they are, who they were born to be, does themselves a great disservice. To deny yourself who you are is to deny the very essence that is you and people who do that are not ever truly happy. They may put on an outward face to present that they are "happy" and "normal", but they aren't. This is why so many homosexuals and bisexuals that are pressured into believing that there is something wrong with them, and that they have to change and pretend to be something that they are not, end up suffering from depression and so many end up killing themselves. Self-denial is never good for a person and you do nothing but try to push someone into suicide when you honestly try to push them into denying who they are.

IMHO, any deity which condemns people for their sexual orientation, and encourages its followers to condemn, persecute and kill those people, is a deity to be ignored and ashamed of. A deity like that is not a deity worth worshipping because they obviously have no REAL idea of what love really is.

 

[Gharib]

I was asking if you were talking about the Islamic laws...that you don't know if Islamic laws in general tend to view either rape or homosexuality as better/worse/equal. Is that correct?

yes thats correct.

 

[Kerr]

Eselam, do you think homosexuals who will not change or "control" their behaviour deserve to die? Do you personally think they should be killed?

 

[TheKnight]

Which explains why people like you would seek
to try and change people who are just fine the way they are.

If your religion hadn't molded your mind
to the 'importance' of such an innane and cruel idea,
I guarantee you wouldn't have come up with it on your own.

Why don't we start by deprogramming all the religious.
after all... as you said... the human mind is very moldable.

Maybe you don't like the fact that a religious homosexual would choose to be religious over being a homosexual. But the fact that you don't like it isn't your decision. It's the decision of the person who decides they no longer want to have those desires.

In a way, it's like plastic surgery for the mind. It's not really up to anyone but the person doing it whether or not they do it.

First off, homosexuality is not a mental illness to be "treated". It is a sexual orientation just like heterosexuality. If homosexuality is a mental illness then so is heterosexuality and either could be controlled/regulated through medicine. As of yet I have never heard of any pill that one could take that would change my attraction to men into an attraction to women, nor make it more likely for me to fall in love with women rather than men.

I did not say (in this thread) that homosexuality is a mental illness. Homosexuality is a mental condition. Just like heterosexuality is a mental condition.

There is no "appropriate treatment" for homosexuality or bisexuality that would make them ever become heterosexual and anyone who says there is is lying through their flapping gums.

Right, because it's absolutely impossible to change your mental perception of something. It's impossible to change the mind in such a way that it views something differently.

You can't change a homosexual into a heterosexual. You may find some very few people who are homosexual who say they are heterosexual and try to live like a heterosexual in order to appear like they are "normal" due to religious/familial pressure, but sorry to tell you, that doesn't change the fact that they are homosexual. The attraction doesn't disappear, it is just denied. A person who denies their true nature, the very basis of who they are, who they were born to be, does themselves a great disservice. To deny yourself who you are is to deny the very essence that is you and people who do that are not ever truly happy. They may put on an outward face to present that they are "happy" and "normal", but they aren't. This is why so many homosexuals and bisexuals that are pressured into believing that there is something wrong with them, and that they have to change and pretend to be something that they are not, end up suffering from depression and so many end up killing themselves. Self-denial is never good for a person and you do nothing but try to push someone into suicide when you honestly try to push them into denying who they are.

IMHO, any deity which condemns people for their sexual orientation, and encourages its followers to condemn, persecute and kill those people, is a deity to be ignored and ashamed of. A deity like that is not a deity worth worshipping because they obviously have no REAL idea of what love really is.

Most of the above is hot air. People change conditions like homosexuality all the time. Schizophrenics get treated, Sociopaths get helped, Bipolar people are treated. We treat mental states of being all the time. What makes sexuality so special that it can't be treated? What makes the human desire for sex so absolutely special and different from everything else that it cannot be molded? Absolutely Nothing. There is nothing special about someone who has homosexual desires just as there is nothing special about someone who has heterosexual desires. They are desires that are caused due to mental impulses and reactions to environment. And just like we can change all sorts of mental impulses and reactions to environment, we can change sexuality. To say otherwise is to speak ignorantly.

 

[Kerr]

Maybe you don't like the fact that a religious homosexual would choose to be religious over being a homosexual. But the fact that you don't like it isn't your decision. It's the decision of the person who decides they no longer want to have those desires.

In a way, it's like plastic surgery for the mind. It's not really up to anyone but the person doing it whether or not they do it.

Does not mean you have to agree on their decision... and wouldn´t that depend on the religion and their interpretation of it anyway?

 

[Kerr]

Most of the above is hot air. People change conditions like homosexuality all the time. Schizophrenics get treated, Sociopaths get helped, Bipolar people are treated. We treat mental states of being all the time. What makes sexuality so special that it can't be treated? What makes the human desire for sex so absolutely special and different from everything else that it cannot be molded? Absolutely Nothing. There is nothing special about someone who has homosexual desires just as there is nothing special about someone who has heterosexual desires. They are desires that are caused due to mental impulses and reactions to environment. And just like we can change all sorts of mental impulses and reactions to environment, we can change sexuality. To say otherwise is to speak ignorantly.

Not really, there was a thread about this some time ago. They managed to change homosexuals to hetrosexuals, but the mental damage was so severe that they discarded it. No, we do not have to treat homosexuality, it does not cause any harm and there is no reason to consider it immoral, wrong, a sickness or a disorder. We have to treat homophobia, though, since it causes huge amounts of pain and suffering.

 

[methylatedghosts]

What would you say to the many, many homosexual and bisexual people who all say it wasn't a choice?

Also, when did you choose to be straight instead of gay? Was it a difficult choice? Did you weigh the pros and cons of each before making the decision?

 

[methylatedghosts]

Do you think this toy chose to be this way:

 

[Kerr]

Do you think this toy chose to be this way:

It looks like a cake!

I want to eat it...