Homosexuality and Homosexual Marriages: Why do Christians Care?

[1robin]

Around 650,000 humans died of abortion last year in the USA alone. None of those deaths were caused by homosex.
You can kid yourself all you want to, but heterosex causes more deaths than homosex.
Tom

What the heck are you talking about? First Christians in general condemn abortions as well. Secondly an abortion has absolutely no causal relationship to heterosexual sex, if you had ever taken a probability class you would know the difference between incidental and causal relationships. Third the issue of abortion does stand in a causal relationship with safe sex practices.

It seems that no matter how emphatically I said to bring reason, evidence, and logic to this debate instead of preference and emotion it was not enough. You have at best one last attempt to make a coherent and rational argument before I give up on you.

 

[columbus]

an abortion has absolutely no causal relationship to heterosexual sex,

Got it.
Enjoy your dishonest emotional appeals.
Tom

 

[1robin]

Nevertheless, the large majority of people who contract AIDS are heterosexuals. It is not a gay disease so much as an African disease, and the cases have skyrocketed as Christianity has spread through Africa.
Tom

When I made my initial post I actually typed a sentence that stated that I am not speaking about total amounts, but about per person rates (not that even though homosexuals are small in number that they do not cause more total damage in many categories) of damage produced by certain behaviors. I could not word it to my own satisfaction in the few seconds I devoted to it, and I though that anyone who debates the homosexuality issue could not be so ignorant as to not understand that. I stand corrected and very disappointed. Since you responded in two posts almost at the same instant I will be generous and consider them both as one, so you still have one last shot to make a meaningful argument so make it good.

 

[1robin]

Got it.
Enjoy your dishonest emotional appeals.
Tom

1. Even if I was being dishonest you have absolutely no way to know it because you have no access to that which you must have access to (my motivations) to know if I was being dishonest to begin with.

2. I made a logical argument founded upon facts. Even if I was wrong about those facts (which I am not because I used CDC sourced statistics) I would still be making an unemotional argument.

However even a parting unfounded insult is preferable to your pretending your preference is co-equal to evidence or argumentation.

See ya, Tom.

 

[columbus]

1. Even if I was being dishonest you have absolutely no way to know it because you have no access to that which you must have access to (my motivations) to know if I was being dishonest to begin with.

What I know is that you show up on RF periodically, make the same poorly reasoned arguments, get blown out of the water, disappear, then reappear a few weeks or months later with the same poorly reasoned arguments.
As if I don't remember the last episode.
Well, I do remember.

So, do whatever you want. All you have convinced me of is that you aren't good at logic or evidence.
Tom

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Why do Christians care that people of the same gender engage in sex, and why do they care that they marry each other? Even caring to the point of voicing their objections and protesting?

I think this is answerable by considering an important feature of human nature -- we are social animals with pronounced individual self-concern. This is quite unique in the world of social species (read Edmund O. Wilson). If that is the case, how do we know who we can trust (because as social animals we need trust), and who we can not (because as self-centered individuals, we frequently "go rogue").

Thus, the nosey, the gossips -- they were our first police and our first guides. We couldn't always tell who was trustworthy, but the rumour-mill was often a really good guide.

On the topic of all those other things that we talk about one another, like who is marrying whom, and are they the same gender (goodness!) -- that's just a side-effect.

 

[Skwim]

Around 650,000 humans died of abortion last year in the USA alone. None of those deaths were caused by homosex.
You can kid yourself all you want to, but heterosex causes more deaths than homosex.
Tom

And . . .

In 2014, there were 12,333 deaths (due to any cause) of people with diagnosed HIV infection ever classified as AIDS, and 6,721 deaths were attributed directly to HIV.
source
​

And if homosexuals account for 60% of AIDS deaths as 1robin says, this means they're only responsible for 4,033 deaths.

In 2013, 664,435 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC
source
​

664,435 abortion deaths Vs 4,033 HIV homosexual deaths. Or HIV deaths among homosexuals amounted to .6% of the abortion deaths.


.

.​

 

[dgirl1986]

Homosexuality and Homosexual Marriages: Why do Christians Care?
Mainly because it states in the Bible that God is against it. It says that God gave them up to their own sinful pleasures. God made marriage for a man and a woman. How will the world population advance if same genders are united in marriage? We are supposed to pray for them to repent and change but we are not supposed to support or advance the practice of same sex marriage.

ronandcarol

I believe that Christian law or law of god is only meant to apply to Christians and believers.

 

[dgirl1986]

Wait...
Your claim now is that merely baking a cake used in a same sex wedding is somehow participating in same sex acts?

You gonna have to explain that one.

It's funny yet sad what conclusions fear can bring people to.

 

[dgirl1986]

Even the link you posted to doesn't claim that his crime was publicly publishing his sermon.
He was arrested on the basis of the content of what he said, not simply the means by which he delivered it.
He could have been found just as guilty if he had been preaching it and homosexuals listening to it had decided to report it to the police for finding the content offensive.
The only reason prosecution came after it was published in a newspaper is because prior to that LGBT groups didn't know he had said it. Once they found out they went to the police and claimed it was hate speech.

The prosecutors claimed that peacefully explaining that homosexuality is wrong, according to the Bible, amounted to trying to "intimidate and agitate" homosexuals.
The original purpose of the hate speech law was to deal with that. The government decided that merely telling people the Bible says it is wrong amounts to intimidation.

Do you agree with the prosecutor's definition of intimidation?

Because by your standard, you're basically saying that it's ok to have an opinion on what the Bible says about homosexuality so long as nobody hears it who could be offended by it. So you're effectively barring them from engaging in public discourse of any kind of this issue, and forcing them to be guarded even about what they preach to their congregation because someone might be in there that could take offense to it.

A case like this is meant to stifle public debate, as a way of protecting the status quo from being challenged in the marketplace of ideas, not to protect individuals from genuine harassment.

Such laws are made to prevent harm.

 

[kaoticprofit]

Homosexuality is a nasty habit and unhealthy lifestyle. Too many of them have multiple partners. It's no good for nothing and a scourge on society and should be banned from promoting it in any way in our schools. I say ban it again and bring back Sodomy laws like those prior to 1962. I hate it and don't want IT or people involved in IT around my family.

 

[dgirl1986]

Homosexuality is a nasty habit and unhealthy lifestyle.

Prove it.

Too many of them have multiple partners.

False.

It's no good for nothing and a scourge on society and should be banned from promoting it in any way in our schools.

It isn't a thing that can be promoted. That would be like promoting having teeth.

I say ban it again and bring back Sodomy laws like those prior to 1962. I hate it and don't want IT or people involved in IT around my family.

Do you really hate your fellow humans that much? Im sure its nice to hate it but we exist whether you want us to or not.

 

[columbus]

And . . .

In 2014, there were 12,333 deaths (due to any cause) of people with diagnosed HIV infection ever classified as AIDS, and 6,721 deaths were attributed directly to HIV.
source
​

And if homosexuals account for 60% of AIDS deaths as 1robin says, this means they're only responsible for 4,033 deaths.

In 2013, 664,435 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC
source
​

664,435 abortion deaths Vs 4,033 HIV homosexual deaths. Or HIV deaths among homosexuals amounted to .6% of the abortion deaths.


.

.​

This is what I try to get through to people like @1robin .
All sex involves some risk. The ideal, competent adults in a committed relationship, reduces the risk to near zero. The further you get from that the more the risk goes up.
It makes no difference whether you are gay or straight. Irresponsible sex is where the risk is.
By encouraging gay people to marry and get on with adult relationships you drastically reduce the risk of all the bad stuff, same as straight people.
Tom

 

[kaoticprofit]

It's all going to end up into the abyss. I could care less if people want to pervert themselves. I'm a hermit and sometimes go over a year before someone knocks on my door, and that's the way I like it. I don't want the homosexual influence around my grandchildren or their children. I'm both homophobic and Islamophobic and that's the way it's going to stay. We shouldn't have to deal with or tolerate either one. It's not that I hate Muslims, I hate Islam. It's not that I hate homo's, I hate what they do. I worked with a few for several years before retiring and they are nasty mouthed people. You can have them all.

 

[dgirl1986]

This is what I try to get through to people like @1robin .
All sex involves some risk. The ideal, competent adults in a committed relationship, reduces the risk to near zero. The further you get from that the more the risk goes up.
It makes no difference whether you are gay or straight. Irresponsible sex is where the risk is.

Well said. So much this.

 

[Skwim]

It's all going to end up into the abyss. I could care less if people want to pervert themselves. I'm a hermit and sometimes go over a year before someone knocks on my door, and that's the way I like it. I don't want the homosexual influence around my grandchildren or their children. I'm both homophobic and Islamophobic and that's the way it's going to stay. We shouldn't have to deal with or tolerate either one. It's not that I hate Muslims, I hate Islam. It's not that I hate homo's, I hate what they do. I worked with a few for several years before retiring and they are nasty mouthed people. You can have them all.

"But grandpa,

if it wasn't for homosexual influences I'd never be this well groomed and sweet."


.​

 

[Prestor John]

I'm going to go back and readdress this comment.

When a discussion becomes more about objective "eye of the beholder" nonsense I start giving it less effort and that’s not fair.

The first thing you are going to have to do is present a system of "measurement" for morals.

Actually, the first thing you should do is answer my question,

"Do you believe that the current moral standards of the world in general are higher or lower than they were fifty years ago?"

I don’t think I need to present any “system of measurement” in order for you to share your belief about the state of the world’s morality in general.

The reason being that I do not believe the Catholic Church to be any sort of reliable standard for morals.

I’m not Catholic either and I do disagree with them on many things, yet when their views agree with mine – they agree.

What do you use as a system of measurement for morality?

Funny how I do not see a list.
Or is it your claim that the Catholic Church is your list?

Funny how you feel that you are entitled to such a list.

Making such a list would require a lot of time and effort that I do not believe will do me any good because you would still disagree with me regardless.

I wouldn’t get any bang for my buck.

Needless to say, it is my opinion that the world is less moral today than it was fifty years ago and it is going to get much worse before it gets better.

Just mentioning the increase in children being born out of wedlock, single parenthood and the societal “norm” of “shacking up” is enough to convince me of this.

When did I say persecuting Christians is not wrong?
Post numbers please.

You assume to much.

You keep making strawmen with your assumptions, then attack the strawmen wondering why no one is taking you seriously.

Was his expressing it legal?

If not, he should be arrested.

If so, he should not be arrested.

No idea why this is such a difficult concept.

Why did you attribute these comments to me?

I never said these things.

 

[TheMusicTheory]

I worked with a few for several years before retiring and they are nasty mouthed people. You can have them all.

There is so much irony happening here its kind of mind-blowing to process.

Anyway, having been raised evangelical baptist until I eventually realized it was all a sham, evangelicals care because:

1. Their preachers tell them its bad.
2. They want to live in a theocracy.

Many of them don't *realize* that's what they want to live in, but it is. They absolutely want to be able to control what everyone around them does so that they don't have to accidentally be exposed to something they don't like. It has very little to do with "God" at the core (though that is what they tell themselves) and has more to do with trying to stop things they think are icky.

 

[Jainarayan]

I believe that Christian law or law of god is only meant to apply to Christians and believers.

I agree with you. However, [many] Christians think their beliefs are binding on everyone. Civil laws should be based on the Bible. According to them anyone who does not believe in or rejects their God, or worships other Gods is doomed to Hell.

 

[Prestor John]

Around 650,000 humans died of abortion last year in the USA alone. None of those deaths were caused by homosex.
You can kid yourself all you want to, but heterosex causes more deaths than homosex.
Tom

Hey Tom. I just have a quick question about your post here.

Do you always believe that abortion = death, or only when it strengthens your argument?