Homosexuality and marriage (again)

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Cool. Too bad we're not allowed to do it.

You are in some places. You're more than welcome to tie the knot here...

...the trick is getting it recognized back home.

 

[Autodidact]

Aw, thanks. If anywhere, I'd probably visit my native Vancouver--in July. Truth to tell, I don't know whether marriage would be the best form for our relationship to take; it's just wrong that those that want to, can't. In the same way, I have no intention to join the military, but think it's stupid and wrong that they don't want me. (Or wouldn't, if I weren't so ancient and haggard.)

That does raise a question, though. Has Canadian society fallen apart? Has the heterosexual divorce rate increased dramatically? Has God inflicted his fury of fire and brimstone? Are hordes of naked men marching in the streets? Or is life proceeding pretty much as before?

 

[farfignewton]

Ok.
I am speaking as a straight guy. But one who beliieves that all humans are born equal, no matter their colour, gender or sexual orientatiuon.

...and also a strong atheist.

Ok. here's where I stand...
I dont believe same sex couple should be married under any faith where their texts forbid it... If you want to be a christian/muslim etc and get married then you do need to be straight...as far as I can see... And for me that's a good thing as it just highlights how irrelevant those religions are in todays world...

However I believe all couples should have equal right to 'marriage' under state, non-religious law.

The current law in the UK annoys the hell out of me. As a non-religious non-homosexual person I would welcome the current ability for union that homosexuals have been (rightfully) given... But I'm not allowed it...

What do you think?

As a strong and devout christian, I have a rather unbecoming view on this.

Christ always said to hate the sin, not the sinner. While I belive that homosexualaty is wrong, I dont belive that it is any worse a sin than swearing, *big thing of mine* or any better than murder. *not a problem of mine* The bible I read says that all sins are the same, so who am I to judge, when I have so many of my own. I have known good people that are gay, live a couples, and sometimes seem happier than many straight couples I Know. I am not blinded by my religion towards it, I belive that I am enlightened by it.

Now, as for marrage in church, there is a standard that people of a faith have to adhere to. The bible talks of marrage between a man and a woman. Talks about loving your wife, and your husband, therefore, I think it would be a betrayal of a pastor/preacher/revrend to allow that coven under god, but as far as outside the religion, may they find happiness. I hold no ill will towards homosexuals. I belive that they should enjoy all the same blessings and rights as any other christian, but I also think that the kindest way to let them know my opinion on the matter is to kindly ask them to be married outside the faith.

 

[astarath]

I cant believe this is still going! Gay marriage will be dealt with elsewhere these forums seem to be obsessed with endless fruitless debates of " Religion sucks... No atheists suck!" Unreal!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That does raise a question, though. Has Canadian society fallen apart?

Not particularily in terms of general statistics, but anecdotally, I did get several parking tickets myself the year after same-sex marriage was made legal. I attribute this to the legislation, and not to the fact that at the time, we had one assigned parking space and two cars.

Has the heterosexual divorce rate increased dramatically?

AFAIK, it's remained about the same (~31%), much lower than the US rate (~44%).

Has God inflicted his fury of fire and brimstone?

Not fire and brimstone, but we got a pretty big snowstorm last night and today.

Are hordes of naked men marching in the streets?

No... it's too cold right now (note the snowstorm I mentioned earlier). The naked hordes have gone inside, put on sweaters, and are snuggled up in blankets by the fireplace.

Or is life proceeding pretty much as before?

Yeah, pretty much. From what I hear, there are some wedding planners who are making a good living at package deals for American same-sex couples, but that's about it.

As a strong and devout christian, I have a rather unbecoming view on this.

Christ always said to hate the sin, not the sinner. While I belive that homosexualaty is wrong, I dont belive that it is any worse a sin than swearing, *big thing of mine* or any better than murder. *not a problem of mine* The bible I read says that all sins are the same, so who am I to judge, when I have so many of my own. I have known good people that are gay, live a couples, and sometimes seem happier than many straight couples I Know. I am not blinded by my religion towards it, I belive that I am enlightened by it.

Others have brought up the issue of Christian churches who condone homosexuality and perform same-sex marriages (or blessings of same-sex unions, in places where same-sex marriage isn't legal). What do you think of this? Do you think they're within their rights to do this?

Now, as for marrage in church, there is a standard that people of a faith have to adhere to. The bible talks of marrage between a man and a woman. Talks about loving your wife, and your husband, therefore, I think it would be a betrayal of a pastor/preacher/revrend to allow that coven under god, but as far as outside the religion, may they find happiness. I hold no ill will towards homosexuals. I belive that they should enjoy all the same blessings and rights as any other christian, but I also think that the kindest way to let them know my opinion on the matter is to kindly ask them to be married outside the faith.

So you're okay with civil marriage for same-sex couples?

 

[astarath]

Does it never end!!!!!!

 

[Autodidact]

Does it never end!!!!!!

I get the impression that you don't really enjoy discussing things on the internet. Small suggestion: stop discussing things on the internet.

 

[astarath]

I thoroughly enjoy discussion that leads to an end however the debate of science vs theology grows stagnant real quick and nobody ever learns anything they just circle the wagons chasing each other and shaking their fists in the air!

 

[Storm]

I thoroughly enjoy discussion that leads to an end however the debate of science vs theology grows stagnant real quick and nobody ever learns anything they just circle the wagons chasing each other and shaking their fists in the air!

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with science vs. theology.

 

[astarath]

very well legalist vs non legalist.

 

[Captain Civic]

I thoroughly enjoy discussion that leads to an end however the debate of science vs theology grows stagnant real quick and nobody ever learns anything they just circle the wagons chasing each other and shaking their fists in the air!

Then maybe you shouldn't be on a debate forum where those things are debated frequently. :sorry1:

 

[McBell]

I thoroughly enjoy discussion that leads to an end however the debate of science vs theology grows stagnant real quick and nobody ever learns anything they just circle the wagons chasing each other and shaking their fists in the air!

Yet you have no problems with jumping into these threads and repeating ad nauseum your admitted pointless opinions.

 

[namguy]

So what percentage of people who call themselves Christians would you say really are? And how do you tell?

That's an impossible question to answer, I don't know what lies in peoples hearts. I'll say this in a broad sense...not very many from what I can see, 'true Christians' that is. But no one can really tell.

 

[Autodidact]

That's an impossible question to answer, I don't know what lies in peoples hearts. I'll say this in a broad sense...not very many from what I can see, 'true Christians' that is. But no one can really tell.

So, actually, Christianity is one of the world's smallest religions. Actually, most of the people claiming to be Christian are liars or mistaken about themselves. Actually, there is no way to tell whether someone else is a Christian or not, no matter what they say. Actually, people who call themselves Christian are extremely unreliable, and should not be believed. It is best to treat people wearing crosses, who attend church on Sunday, with great suspicion, as the chances are they do not speak the truth. Actually, the United States was not founded by Christians. Actually, most of the people that you think of as Christian, and who may have risen to positions of prominence in churches that you think of as Christian, may not be, and their churches may not be as well. Actually, there is very little relationship between what we call "Christian" and True Christians. Actually, the word "Christian" is useless, because there is no way to know if it is correctly applied or not. Right?

 

[England my lionheart]

So, actually, Christianity is one of the world's smallest religions. Actually, most of the people claiming to be Christian are liars or mistaken about themselves. Actually, there is no way to tell whether someone else is a Christian or not, no matter what they say. Actually, people who call themselves Christian are extremely unreliable, and should not be believed. It is best to treat people wearing crosses, who attend church on Sunday, with great suspicion, as the chances are they do not speak the truth. Actually, the United States was not founded by Christians. Actually, most of the people that you think of as Christian, and who may have risen to positions of prominence in churches that you think of as Christian, may not be, and their churches may not be as well. Actually, there is very little relationship between what we call "Christian" and True Christians. Actually, the word "Christian" is useless, because there is no way to know if it is correctly applied or not. Right?

Its somebody who has been baptised or follower of Christ

 

[namguy]

So, actually, Christianity is one of the world's smallest religions. Actually, most of the people claiming to be Christian are liars or mistaken about themselves. Actually, there is no way to tell whether someone else is a Christian or not, no matter what they say. Actually, people who call themselves Christian are extremely unreliable, and should not be believed. It is best to treat people wearing crosses, who attend church on Sunday, with great suspicion, as the chances are they do not speak the truth. Actually, the United States was not founded by Christians. Actually, most of the people that you think of as Christian, and who may have risen to positions of prominence in churches that you think of as Christian, may not be, and their churches may not be as well. Actually, there is very little relationship between what we call "Christian" and True Christians. Actually, the word "Christian" is useless, because there is no way to know if it is correctly applied or not. Right?

Well, no a true Christian is just that, but what you say says a lot of truth.

 

[MoonWater]

Its somebody who has been baptised or follower of Christ

What about those who were baptized into another faith o were baptized into Christianity but now consider themselves Pagan or Atheist or whatever? What about those who call themselves Christian but preach more about Paul and seem to care more about following the teachings of Paul than the teachings of Christ(most extremist Christians from what I can tell)?Are they still Christian or aould a better term for them be Paulian or Paulism?

 

[namguy]

Its somebody who has been baptised or follower of Christ

Being Baptised is an outward admission that one has been Saved By The Blood. Once again, the act itself does nothing but gets you wet! So the mere act of baptism does nothing, but try and tell that too a Catholic

 

[Autodidact]

Its somebody who has been baptised or follower of Christ

So you disagree with namguy?

 

[Autodidact]

Well, no a true Christian is just that, but what you say says a lot of truth.

For example, all the people here at RF with the word "Christian" in their religion field--not necessarily Christians. In fact, most of them aren't, according to you. In fact, there's no way for me to tell whether you are a Christian. In fact, the word "Christian" is completely useless, and we might as well stop using it, or just say, "Christian, so-called" every time we call someone a Christian, right?