Homosexuality and marriage (again)

[Mike182]

Well, observing the "reasonableness" of the rest of his post, I bet it's something along the lines of extermination... At the least, I'm sure it would involve much persecution.

God bless that Christian love! :angel2:
Don't you feel the love, Mike?
Such loving people, them Christians...

well, i'm feeling something...

i really don't see the point in arguing against the Bible and God in these debates, because we are looking at marriage from a civil perspective, and the opposition are looking at marriage from a religious perspective - that or a civil perspective but in the context of a wanted theocracy.

i would like to know though, if Marriage is (as the religious right claims it to be) a union between man and woman before God, and there is only one true God, and all other Gods are idols of men's hearts, and idolatry is strictly forbidden, why don't the religious right oppose heterosexual couples from other religions marrying? surely it would only follow suit?

oh well, i guess i'm going to hell anyway, so i'll take my fill of true happiness while i can.

 

[Autodidact]

First off you (the gay person) wouldn't be here if you're parents were gay 9 months prior to you (the gay person) being born.

And? btw, I think my 3 kids would beg to differ.

Second ...all men are "created" (You can’t’ be created unless you have a mother and father who are of opposite gender) equal, that they are endowed by their "Creator" (Creator meaning God. God says the Bible is truth. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong. Gay marriage is wrong.)

Are you in the habit of announcing your personal religious opinions as though they were agreed truth? Did you sincerely want to try to convince of the truth of any of this?

With certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. You can't have something unless it is created by something.

Really? Are you sure?

So being gay defies life,

In what way? I'm gay, I'm alive and I have 3 kids. I also haven't killed anybody.

it defies liberty

Really? How? Allowing people freedom defies liberty?

and it defies the pursuit of happiness.

Excuse me? I think I know more about my own happiness than you do.

Being gay and gay marriage shouldn't even exist. The only reason it does is because man is corrupt and wants to do what he wants to do and not what life is intended for. Even the beginning of are constitution says We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our "Posterity" (Why would are forefathers die to see there's sons and daughters marry the same sex and say "...secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity." Posterity is defined as "the offspring of one progenitor to the furthest generation." What's the point of even dying for freedom if there is no posterity? Gays should have no rights in this country because it was never intended for homosexuals. It was intended just for heterosexuals. Once again life wouldn’t exist if something didn't create it. So why should anything that is against life and against what nature is, have rights? I'll probably get torn apart for this but hey you wouldn't even typing your comeback if it wasn't for a positive (protons) and negative (electrons - both opposite) charge going through you panel to your computer.

Wow, I should probably frame this as one of the most delightful exercises in nonsense I've ever encountered. Let's start with posterity, which btw I have, thank you very much. So you think people should be forced to have children, whether they want to or not? Or do you think maybe it's up to the individual to decide for themselves? The country was only created for heterosexuals? That's a good one! I suppose you had the opportunity to ask our forefathers about that? Against nature? Do you have any idea how many animals exhibit homosexual behavior? I realize this may come as a radical idea to you, but human beings have rights. Gay people are not things, they are people. And that, my young typist, is who the forefathers created our nation to give rights to, human beings. You don't have to like it, but you do have to respect it. That's the American way.

 

[Autodidact]

and where did that baby come from? someone gave birth after havign sex with a member of the opposite sex. oh that's right.....

No, actually. As I said, I have 3 kids, and am a life-long lesbian. Can you figure it out, or do I need to explain it to you?

where did the sperm bank get its sperm? from a male. and that is disgusting too by the way

Better tell all the heterosexual couples with fertility problems who use them.

gayness never was happiness, oh wait, never mind, if you use the archaic form of gay then it just means happy.

I'm pretty darned happy, with or without your permission.

It shouldn't because it is not natural. it goes against reproduction and the continuation of the human species.

I don't know how to break this to you, but you're just plain wrong. There have always been gay people, and the species is continuing just fine. Here's what it includes: non-reproductive sex. So do most human sexual relationships.

Personally, I think the world would be a better place if all children were wanted children, there were no accidental pregnancy, and you irresponsible heterosexuals stopped having children you're not prepared to take care of. Come to think of it, heterosexuality is wrong, leads to unhappiness, brings unwanted children into the world, is disgusting, and should not be allowed. And as for heterosexual marriage--do I have to start listing the problems? Clearly the IPU never intended it.

exactly, their behavior is also unnatural.

No, it's exactly natural. What would be unnatural for me would be heterosexuality.

Well, actually Christians have more to contribute to the world than the gay community. they make the babies you so claim to be "parents" over.

You're right. Christian heterosexuals made my youngest daughter. Too bad they couldn't take care of her, so a responsible lesbian had to step in and do it for them.

I like to consider each person as an individual, rather than operate on stereotypes and bigotry. I'm sure some heterosexual Christian parents are responsible and caring. The world would be a better place if everyone could take this perspective.

 

[Mike182]

Well, actually Christians have more to contribute to the world than the gay community. they make the babies you so claim to be "parents" over.

ok, moral and religious disagreements are fine, but are you seriously saying that the gay community is inferior to the Christian community? frankly it is disgusting that you would even want to measure the value of two communities against each other in terms of who can contribute more to the world.

 

[Autodidact]

ok, moral and religious disagreements are fine, but are you seriously saying that the gay community is inferior to the Christian community? frankly it is disgusting that you would even want to measure the value of two communities against each other in terms of who can contribute more to the world.

Cuz if you start doing that, you probably end up giving the tiara to the Jews.

 

[Autodidact]

You know what's really disgusting? Prejudice and bigotry. Ewwww.

 

[michel]

ok, moral and religious disagreements are fine, but are you seriously saying that the gay community is inferior to the Christian community? frankly it is disgusting that you would even want to measure the value of two communities against each other in terms of who can contribute more to the world.

I sincerely hope that wasn't the intended meaning by the original poster.....

You know what's really disgusting? Prejudice and bigotry. Ewwww.

Amen to that.

 

[namguy]

Ok.
I am speaking as a straight guy. But one who beliieves that all humans are born equal, no matter their colour, gender or sexual orientatiuon.

...and also a strong atheist.

Ok. here's where I stand...
I dont believe same sex couple should be married under any faith where their texts forbid it... If you want to be a christian/muslim etc and get married then you do need to be straight...as far as I can see... And for me that's a good thing as it just highlights how irrelevant those religions are in todays world...

However I believe all couples should have equal right to 'marriage' under state, non-religious law.

The current law in the UK annoys the hell out of me. As a non-religious non-homosexual person I would welcome the current ability for union that homosexuals have been (rightfully) given... But I'm not allowed it...

What do you think?

Homosexuality goes directly aganist the Bible, so do woman minesters, surprise, it's the truth. Though sin is sin in The Lords Eye, however homosexuality is a dirty type of sin, I don't know how else to explain it. I believe Sodom & Gamora are excellent examples of this sin. Now one can still be Saved By The Blood if,if they confess that sin and leave that lifestyle.

 

[Darkness]

First off you (the gay person) wouldn't be here if you're parents were gay 9 months prior to you (the gay person) being born.

So? I wouldn't be here if Rome hadn't fallen. Does that mean I have to marry the Fall of Rome?

Second ...all men are "created" (You can’t’ be created unless you have a mother and father who are of opposite gender) equal, that they are endowed by their "Creator"

So?

(Creator meaning God. God says the Bible is truth.

Where does God say the Bible is Truth? I haven't heard Him say anything like that. My guess is you are using circular reasoning i.e. In the Bible God says the Bible is Truth, ergo God says the Bible is Truth. How quaint.

The Bible says homosexuality is wrong. Gay marriage is wrong.)

It is odd Christians are not up in arms demanding rebellious children be put to death.

For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. -- Jesus' words according to the Book of Matthew

Of course, it makes sense if Christians are simply using their religion as an excuse to justify their personal prejudices.

With certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

Why should not homosexuals have these same rights?

You can't have something unless it is created by something.

Ergo, God is either created by something or God is nothing.

So being gay defies life,

Gays are not alive? :sarcastic

Heterosexuals eat animals and that defies life.

it defies liberty and it defies the pursuit of happiness.

How so?

Being gay and gay marriage shouldn't even exist. The only reason it does is because man is corrupt and wants to do what he wants to do and not what life is intended for.

Existence precedes Essence

Even the beginning of are constitution says We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our "Posterity" (Why would are forefathers die to see there's sons and daughters marry the same sex and say "...secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity." Posterity is defined as "the offspring of one progenitor to the furthest generation." What's the point of even dying for freedom if there is no posterity?

Why do you worship the Founding Fathers?

Gays should have no rights in this country because it was never intended for homosexuals. It was intended just for heterosexuals.

It was never intended for black people (non-whites), either.

Once again life wouldn’t exist if something didn't create it. So why should anything that is against life and against what nature is, have rights?

You do realize that many animals are gay.

I'll probably get torn apart for this but hey you wouldn't even typing your comeback if it wasn't for a positive (protons) and negative (electrons - both opposite) charge going through you panel to your computer.

:biglaugh:This just made my day. :biglaugh:I could just hug you.

Note: It is often said, "If you don't believe in God, why do you care about religion?" Well, one look at jbird's post and you can tell.

Congress to Vote on Anti-Christian Marriage Amendment

Congress is expected to vote on the controversial marriage amendment later this week as both conservative atheist family groups and Christian rights advocates engaged in frantic last-minute lobbying. Critics charge this amendment was proposed by President Bushwhack as a “wedge issue” to galvanize conservative anti-Christian voters. Christians represent a small minority of the country and are especially unpopular in the conservative atheist “red states”, the base of President Bushwhack’s support.

”Marriage is traditionally a secular institution, a commitment between two free-thinking minds. This institution is under attack by rogue cities and activist judges who seek to redefine marriage without the consent of the people.” President Bushwhack explained in a press conference, “The Christians break with our traditional ways by introducing religion into marriage. This amendment is much needed to protect this valued secular institution.”

The Amendment reads, “Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of two non-Christians.”

Christian rights advocates deplore the move by President Bushwhack as discriminatory.

”It's bad enough growing up Christian in this atheist dominated world,” said Sen. Theodore “Theo” Retical, the only openly Christian Senator and long-time advocate of Christian rights, “We need to work toward creating a more tolerant society. They just want us to get back in the closet so they can pretend we’re not here.”
“Closet” refers to the way many Christians hide their identity so as to avoid the social stigma associated with being a Christian.
“Our society is becoming increasingly tolerant but many young people today are still having trouble telling their parents that they're Christian.” explained Sen. Retical, “These youths are made to feel abnormal because they have faith. Their parents often feel like they’ve failed to raise them properly or else they blame the ‘liberal media’ for ‘glamorizing the Christian lifestyle’.”

Sen. Rick Sanitarium, a long time opponent of Christian rights, disagreed.

”It’s time to put an end to this mockery, these Christian so-called ‘marriages’. We must remember that being a Christian is a deviant lifestyle choice, one which many American voters find deeply objectionable.” said Sen. Sanitarium, “It's not like they’re born that way.”

When asked about recent discoveries that Christians have higher dopamine levels in their brains, indicating a possible genetic predisposition toward faith, Sanitarium rebuffed that suggestion saying, “There's no hard evidence to support such a ridiculous theory.”
Jan LaPew of the Confused Women for America denied the amendment violates anyone rights.
“Everyone has the right to marry any freethinker they choose.” said LaPew, “The Christians just want to change everything so they can have special rights but if we allow this counterfeit Christian marriage, all the freethinking marriages will be devalued.”
Added LaPew, “If the Christian lifestyle is legitimized today, tomorrow the government will be legitimizing acts of sectarian terrorism.”
James Dumbson of the conservative group, Focus on the Fascism, applauded the amendment. He has also been a longtime advocate of legally banning Christians from adopting, citing the need to protect our nations children from their corrupting influence.

There is also some talk of compromise. Sen. Karing from the state of Massachusetts, the only state to allow legal Christian marriage, suggested the idea of allowing Christian Civil Unions, thereby protecting marriage but still allowing Christians the same legal rights.

 

[gnomon]

and where did that baby come from? someone gave birth after havign sex with a member of the opposite sex. oh that's right.....

where did the sperm bank get its sperm? from a male. and that is disgusting too by the way

gayness never was happiness, oh wait, never mind, if you use the archaic form of gay then it just means happy.

It shouldn't because it is not natural. it goes against reproduction and the continuation of the human species.

exactly, their behavior is also unnatural.

Well, actually Christians have more to contribute to the world than the gay community. they make the babies you so claim to be "parents" over.

You have fulfilled your earlier prediction. There is a difference between reason, faith and pure bigotry.

 

[gnomon]

Homosexuality goes directly aganist the Bible....

Who cares. Lock yourself in a room with your Bible and the world shall not hurt you. According to other God's homosexuality is not a sin. Whose God is right? According to the U.S. Constitution, none of them.

 

[namguy]

What I said was it is a sin aganist The Lord, that's what I said, anything more or less I didn't say.​

 

[madhatter85]

Or used a sperm bank. Look, I'm not anti-heterosexual, and I'm certainly not anti-heterosexual sex. I'm just also not anti-gay. I believe that everyone has a right to happiness, not just a select few, so don't try to turn this into a "if you're pro-gay you're anti-hetero" thing, because that's just absurd.

I'm not anti-gay people, but i do stand against the act itself. I do not condemn Gay people to hell because that is absurd. While i do believe it is unnatural and a perverse practice I do not persecute them. These gay rights activists who are LDS or otherwise Christian throw my hypocrite and BS sensor through the roof. Sperm banks to me also are disgusting because it promotes:
Nonmarital Childbearing

As important as the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth is, the Lord has made clear that we must demonstrate our obedience only within the marriage relationship. There are numerous reasons for this restriction, but two of the most significant are to discourage sexual promiscuity and to provide a stable and healthy family environment for children.

In most societies, bearing children out of wedlock has traditionally been considered an embarrassment and a disgrace. But in today’s world, where good is called evil and evil good (see Isa. 5:20), the stigma of nonmarital childbearing has largely vanished. Not only is this practice a sin in the eyes of heaven, but researchers have found out-of-wedlock birth to be associated with several risks for the baby. For instance, compared with children born to married couples, children born out of wedlock are more likely to die of sudden infant death syndrome, suffer death due to injury, or eventually become juvenile offenders.

Children born to unwed parents and placed for adoption fare significantly better than those who are not adopted. They experience fewer learning problems, achieve higher vocational levels, and are less likely to receive government assistance as adults. 4 It is obvious that bringing children into the world and raising them the Lord’s way results in spiritual and temporal blessings.

I'm sure the Christian women with infertile husbands who use such facilities would disagree with your assessment. But even if they didn't, I don't really care. Just because you think something is disgusting doesn't make it so. You're going to have to come up with a better attack than that.

To us, they are promised that they will have the opportunity to bear children in the hereafter as long as they abide thier temple covenants so that they may remain sealed together for time and all eternity rather than just "till death do us part"

Not for you. All my gay friends seem much happier in their homosexual relationships than when they tried to play it straight, and that's enough to convince me that you're dead wrong.

happy because they face persecution and funny looks their whole life? that was never happiness. yes it is sad that people still persecute them. but, it would make life easier if they just weren't. there wouldn't be all this bullcrap and controversy. there wouldn't be these situations.

The behavior of natural animals is unnatural? By whose definition? Yours?

animals also cannot reproduce by homosexual sex so yes, by definition it is unnatural. there are some animals that reproduce asexually but that is a far cry from homosexual sex. West african frogs will change sex in a population environment where there is an overabundance of the same sex. this ensure the continuation of their species.

Yes, what this overpopulated world needs more of is babies; we certainly don't have enough of those already. Reproducing is hardly a contribution to society at this point; if anything, it's selfish.

Here you go:
LDS.org - Ensign Article - Strengthening the Family: Multiply and Replenish the Earth
Replenishing the Earth

After the Lord commanded Adam and Eve to “be fruitful, and multiply,” He commanded them to “replenish the earth, and subdue it” (Gen. 1:28). The Hebrew word translated as replenish means “to fill.” For many years we have heard warnings about overpopulation and the devastating effects it can cause. While some areas of the world are experiencing a negative impact from extreme population density, the world as a whole is actually moving in the opposite direction. Indeed, research indicates that by the year 2040 world population will peak and begin to decline. 5

Probably a more relevant issue than population density is how we use the resources God has given us to support the population now and in the future. “For the earth is full,” He said, “and there is enough and to spare. … If any man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart not his portion, according to the law of my gospel, unto the poor and the needy, he shall, with the wicked, lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment” (D&C 104:17–18). “The enemy of human happiness as well as the cause of poverty and starvation is not the birth of children,” said Elder Henry B. Eyring of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. “It is the failure of people to do with the earth what God could teach them to do if only they would ask and then obey.” 6

 

[frg001]

I sincerely hope that wasn't the intended meaning by the original poster......

Absolutely not. I believe ALL people to be born equal.

I just wih people would comdemn religious groups that deny them, rather than trying to fit in... Thus providing more reason to dismiss them as irrelevant in a modern, caring society.

It's sort of like a black person trying to get into the KKK. Now we all know exactly what they stand for and that is bigotry and predudiced hatred. For me, any religious group that denies someone for being gay is guilty of the same.

 

[gnomon]

There is nothing unnatural about homosexuality. Claiming heterosexual reproduction to be a defining factor of natural is ignorant.

 

[namguy]

Or used a sperm bank. Look, I'm not anti-heterosexual, and I'm certainly not anti-heterosexual sex. I'm just also not anti-gay. I believe that everyone has a right to happiness, not just a select few, so don't try to turn this into a "if you're pro-gay you're anti-hetero" thing, because that's just absurd.



I'm sure the Christian women with infertile husbands who use such facilities would disagree with your assessment. But even if they didn't, I don't really care. Just because you think something is disgusting doesn't make it so. You're going to have to come up with a better attack than that.



Not for you. All my gay friends seem much happier in their homosexual relationships than when they tried to play it straight, and that's enough to convince me that you're dead wrong.








animals also cannot reproduce by homosexual sex so yes, by definition it is unnatural.





Here you go:
LDS.org - Ensign Article - Strengthening the Family: Multiply and Replenish the Earth
Replenishing the Earth

It's me, take it up with The Lord.

 

[namguy]

Fine.

 

[gnomon]

animals also cannot reproduce by homosexual sex so yes, by definition it is unnatural. there are some animals that reproduce asexually but that is a far cry from homosexual sex. West african frogs will change sex in a population environment where there is an overabundance of the same sex. this ensure the continuation of their species.

More from the natural world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter's_syndrome

Affected males are almost always effectively sterile, although advanced reproductive assistance is sometimes possible[3] and some degree of language learning impairment may be present.[4] In adults, possible characteristics vary widely and include little to no signs of affectedness, a lanky, youthful build and facial appearance, or a rounded body type with some degree of gynecomastia (increased breast tissue).[5] Gynecomastia to some extent is present in about a third of individuals affected, a slightly higher percentage than in the normal XY population, but only about 10% of XXY males' gynecomastia is noticeable enough to require surgery.[6]
The term "hypogonadism" in XXY symptoms is often misinterpreted to mean "small testicles" or "small penis". In fact, it means decreased testicular hormone/endocrine function. Because of this hypogonadism, patients will often have a low serum testosterone level but high serum follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH) levels.[7] Despite this misunderstanding of the term, however, it is true that XXY men often also have "microorchidism" (i.e. small testicles).

Are these individuals "unnatural". If so, then God made them that way. Of course, if God creates nature how could God make something unnatural. It is absurd and idiotic.

What is intersex? | Intersex Society of North America

“Intersex” is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male. For example, a person might be born appearing to be female on the outside, but having mostly male-typical anatomy on the inside. Or a person may be born with genitals that seem to be in-between the usual male and female types—for example, a girl may be born with a noticeably large clitoris, or lacking a vaginal opening, or a boy may be born with a notably small penis, or with a scrotum that is divided so that it has formed more like labia. Or a person may be born with mosaic genetics, so that some of her cells have XX chromosomes and some of them have XY.
Though we speak of intersex as an inborn condition, intersex anatomy doesn’t always show up at birth. Sometimes a person isn’t found to have intersex anatomy until she or he reaches the age of puberty, or finds himself an infertile adult, or dies of old age and is autopsied. Some people live and die with intersex anatomy without anyone (including themselves) ever knowing.
Which variations of sexual anatomy count as intersex? In practice, different people have different answers to that question. That’s not surprising, because intersex isn’t a discreet or natural category.
What does this mean? Intersex is a socially constructed category that reflects real biological variation.

In other words, male and female are social constructs. Not naturally determined. However, wherever a human individual fits on the spectrum of sex, they are natural and still human.

Not in the Bible, not even in the BoM. Gee, I wonder why.:sarcastic Amazing how people hold onto words written in ignorance over modern understanding.

 

[Autodidact]

Homosexuality goes directly aganist the Bible, so do woman minesters, surprise, it's the truth. Though sin is sin in The Lords Eye, however homosexuality is a dirty type of sin, I don't know how else to explain it. I believe Sodom & Gamora are excellent examples of this sin. Now one can still be Saved By The Blood if,if they confess that sin and leave that lifestyle.

1. Stop preaching. I'm not Christian, and could care less what you think goes against the Bible.
2. Actually, lesbianism is not prohibited anywhere in the Bible.
3. Actually, most scholars believe the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah had nothing to do with homosexuality, it was selfishness and inhospitality.
4. Now here's what is directly against the Bible: divorce. More specifically, re-marriage after divorce. Jesus made it clear it's prohibited. Yet you never hear Christians railing against that. Maybe it's because they do it so much.
5. Why should your religious beliefs have anything to do with our nation's laws?

 

[madhatter85]

you know what is really funny? they say they want PROOF of my opinions and beliefs. they all whine that when i show them it is IMPOSSIBLE to reproduce without engaging in heterosexual sex. they say that my attitude disgusts them. but that's their OPINION.

How about this, SHOW ME FACTS that it is possible to reproduce when engaging in homosexual intercourse.