Homosexuality and religious.

[mikkel_the_dane]

Thats you’re right and I respect that fully. I was an atheist for many years. But I believe most people are good despite having no belief because we are humanity.

I am still an atheist. I have just learned to be religious and thus I do God differently than you, but also most other atheists.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is no society as say gravity. And your model doesn't answer how morality changes over time in a society.

What has gravity or relativity to do with this. Societies change by the desire of those who constitute it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I am still an atheist. I have just learned to be religious and thus I do God differently than you, but also most other atheists.

That’s very interesting. I’m curious.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What has gravity or relativity to do with this. Societies change by the desire of those who constitute it.

No, society is never an uniform we, if you look closer.

 

[sayak83]

Because if i saw someone raping an other human being i could stop it, but i can not stop homosexuality

You can also stop someone if saw them engaged in a homosexual act. So please explain the difference as I do not get it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No, society is never an uniform we, if you look closer.

Yeah, people have different views. Majority prevails.

 

[ppp]

Just to clerify my true stand on it, i am neutral to what other people do in their relationship sexually, i is not any of my business to critique them.

If one supports an organization that is not neutral, then one is not neutral. The most you can claim is that you are indifferent to the happiness of others. At least some minority of others.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You can also stop someone if saw them engaged in a homosexual act. So please explain the difference as I do not get it.

Rape is violating someones privacy by force, that is illegal by law,
Whatvtwo people on the street does to each others in free will is not my business.
This morning I saw two femalse holding hands and Kissing, its their choice

 

[Brian2]

Is condemning homosexuality and persecuting homosexuals because of what god says, homophobic?
Yes, absolutely!

Yes if Christians did that then they would be wrong and going against what God has taught. They would be following the ways of the world and not the ways of Jesus.
It would probably be worse than you following the ways of the world and the spirit of the age and condemning religious people for nothing.
The truth of the Bible has not changed but hopefully many religious people have changed and are not prejudiced against gays now. That is a good thing and not something to be condemned.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That’s very interesting. I’m curious.

Okay.
First off in the Western philosophical tradition I am a strong skeptic, so I don't really believe in truth, knowledge, rational, proof, evidence and so on like some people do. I believe in beliefs that apparently work for me. That is a form of faith.

But since I am skeptic, I don't believe that I can know God in any sense, yet I can't rule out God, since I don't know if there is one or not.
So I in effect believe in that we all have positive value as humans, but that is without evidence and all that and in effect it is a religious claim, because it is about the meaning and value of being a human in a non-physical/material sense.

As for God as God, I leave that to God, if there is a God. I try to live in this everyday world and do good according to my belief that all humans have positive value.
In a sense I believe in God as good, but I know nothing about that, so I can only do good as me and I have to doubt that since I am not perfect and double check myself for hate and other negative feelings. That is hard and I am not that good at that.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yeah, people have different views. Majority prevails.

No, because even the majority can change.

 

[sayak83]

Rape is violating someones privacy by force, that is illegal by law,
Whatvtwo people on the street does to each others in free will is not my business.
This morning I saw two femalse holding hands and Kissing, its their choice

So you are neutral towards consensual actions and consider nonconsensual actions to be wrong. Correct?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, when the majority view changes, morality also changes. It all depends on what people think is good for the society.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So you are neutral towards consensual actions and consider nonconsensual actions to be wrong. Correct?

To force anyone to go against their will is in my understanding wrong yes.

 

[Brian2]

No.

It's divided into homophobes on the one hand and people who have no issue with homosexuality, and who thus have no problem saying "it's okay to be gay". Being gay has no moral component in my view. Just like being straight doesn't have a moral component. Primarily because morality is about how your behavior affects others in terms of well-being, and your sexual preference isn't such a behavior.


Having said that, so the world is divided in those two.

Then you have the folks in the middle.
They realize they follow a religion / ideology which is at heart homophobic but they themselves are aware of that and are uncomfortable with it. But they are also uncomfortable with saying that they think their religion is wrong on that issue.

So they'll declare themselves "neutral" and refuse to speak out on it. Instead, you'll just get dodge after dodge and ambiguous / vague statements that keep it all in a grey area.

I suspect that that is exactly what is going on here.

Sexual preference is usually not a choice imo and I see no reason for you to see a moral component in being gay, and neither do I see a moral component in being heterosexual. But God has told Christians what His morals are and so even if I don't fully understand, I go along with it because I am a Christian.
I also go along with other bits of morality in the Bible even if I don't fully understand the reasons.
It's not as if the Bible has changed it's morality these days even if some people want Christians and those of other religions to feel guilty now that homosexuality is more acceptable in the world.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What two people on the street does to each others in free will is not my business.
This morning I saw two females holding hands and Kissing, its their choice

That will be punishable in India - public decency, although Indian law will not find it objectionable if done in the privacy of their home. Holding hands will not be a problem.

 

[KWED]

But you are not a believer, you don't have to follow any law given to you by a God you don't believe in.

So if you're not a White Supremacist, you shouldn't be bothered by what White Supremacists believe or say?

So if you're not poor, you shouldn't worry about people living in poverty?

If you don't suffer from a rare congenital illness, why would you try to cure it?

What a strange, sad world you live in.

(And before you cry "but I didn't say that!!", that is the implication of saying that if you aren't affected by something, why does it bother you if other people are. )

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I am curious. Do you believe the question
" Is consensual homosexuality an ethical/moral practice?" is a question that does not have an answer? Or, that it does have an answer but you do not know the answer and hence you are agnostic on the issue?

I would think it has an answer, but it is not mine to answer it.

 

[PruePhillip]

The phobic label is an emotional manipulation tactic, designed by the Left, to create compliance to bad ideas, by using the good nature of religious and all good people, against them. The result of this tactic is that common sense reason will come in conflict with emotions, thereby inhibiting sound reasoning. The antidote is to judge yourself, in terms of your heart, to see if there is hate or not, and if not, then be calm and rely on your reasoning. Don't let the emotional manipulation judge for you, and inhibit reason and common sense. Like in the market place you do not have to buy every product, out of fear of being called a hater. The Left does not believe in a free market. Like gas they raised the price of free thinking.

Where I first fully understood this tactic was when I was watching stand up comedy on cable, which can be insulting to everyone. If you are secure in yourself and do not define yourself with a mask or group label, you should be able to laugh at yourself, since comedy exaggerates the generic herd masks, for the laugh. When everyone is laughing, superficial and collective walls that once divided us, come down, and we all seem to be one smiling family. We could have religious and atheists, black and white, male and female and all in-between in a comedy club. If we are all laughing, we become one family. Look in each others eyes and you will see familiar. There is something deeper than the shallows of groups, that comedy targets.

The political left started to call comedy hate and phobic, if it addressed any of their social engineering experiments. This made no sense, since everyone was laughing and full of joy, not hate. Why are they calling joy, hate or fear? I decided not to allow others to accuse me of something, that was not true, to inhibit and silence me and provide themselves cover against observation and reasoning.

Before contemporary woman's liberation; 1960's, male and female cultures were more segregated. Men, in preparation for life; husband and father and war, would try to strengthen each other. Part of this training was connected to emotional toughness, by insulting each other, with clever whit and comedy. Like in football, nobody wants to get emotionally hit, but the more times that happens, in practice, the less it hurts. The idea behind this tough emotional training was, the other teams of life and war want to hurt you bad, so you and your team need to practice hurting each other; controlled experiments, so in the day of competition, one is immune to physical and emotional pain, so life becomes easier.

As women left the home, and came into the the male dominated job market, women were not used to this male tradition; being hard, rude, but playful as a team. The males tried to welcome the smaller numbers of females to the male dominate world. But the females had their own traditions. They were more two faced; insult behind the back but friendly to the face. They were taken back by the open honesty designed to get under one's emotional skin; practice to harden emotions to insults. Men were force to change this age old team behavior, in favor the female traditions. This increasingly led to over sensitize emotions in males and females since son's never were able to learn, properly.

Instead of taking hits, in practice, one had to go into the game of life, unprepared, and overly sensitive to even minor hits. The accusation of phobia and hate was now easier to induce. Culture would have been better off, letting the males lead, instead of allowing a smaller groups to control the larger, like we have today. The larger group has the advantage and this is where everyone can learn the map to that success. This is finally being reversed. Women in sports are learning how this team toughening for adversity, helps with life; strong body and level head in times of stress. The Left tried to take them out with transgender dominance in female sports; instill compliance to a small group. They were called haters for fighting back.

Well done, hope you didn't copy and paste this! Thanks.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So if you're not a White Supremacist, you shouldn't be bothered by what White Supremacists believe or say?

So if you're not poor, you shouldn't worry about people living in poverty?

If you don't suffer from a rare congenital illness, why would you try to cure it?

What a strange, sad world you live in.

(And before you cry "but I didn't say that!!", that is the implication of saying that if you aren't affected by something, why does it bother you if other people are. )

Well, religion and God is in effect not a single universal unity. But, yes, there are versions I oppose and others I can accept in the end.
And I will never do like you and try to just go for the hate and bad.