Homosexuality and religious.

[Truthseeker]

Yesterday (for me) i was answering about a question relating to baha'i scripture and homosexuality. And i replied something like "I can not tell other what they can and can not do in their belief/faith."

The person who made the question then directly assumed i had to be a homophobic, hateful person against every LGBTQ person.

I just wonder, how is it possible to conclude that a person is homophobic or hateful from a reply like the one i gave?

Just to clerify my true stand on it, i am neutral to what other people do in their relationship sexually, i is not any of my business to critique them.

My wife is homosexual and she hasn't had sex outside of marriage. That doesn't mean that I condemn those who are homosexual and have had sex. I like to watch The Rachel Maddow show on MSNBC and she is openly homosexual, has a friend named Susan, and I really like her. Recently there has been a big shift in the US about homosexuals, and definitely they deserve not to be discriminated against.

 

[PruePhillip]

It's not about "disbelieving in homosexuality" (nonsensical claim, it exists). It is about intolerance and prejudice towards homosexuality.

So you think homosexuality is anti-social behaviour like rape and child abuse?
*smh*
What is wrong with some people here?

Well, is adultery 'natural' ???
Is hate, envy, spite, greed etc 'natural' ???

Yes I am intolerance and prejudicial towards homosexuality, polygamy, pederasty, beastiality and sexualizing the few kids we have left in our aging and sick society.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So if you're not a White Supremacist, you shouldn't be bothered by what White Supremacists believe or say?

So if you're not poor, you shouldn't worry about people living in poverty?

If you don't suffer from a rare congenital illness, why would you try to cure it?

What a strange, sad world you live in.

(And before you cry "but I didn't say that!!", that is the implication of saying that if you aren't affected by something, why does it bother you if other people are. )

Racism is not a right way to act for an Baha'i.

I am extremely poor, and I care for those who has less than me.

Nice way to kick my face....both my parents died of cancer, and I did everything in my power to help them.

 

[questfortruth]

I just wonder, how is it possible to conclude that a person is homophobic or hateful from a reply like the one i gave?

Just to clerify my true stand on it, i am neutral to what other people do in their relationship sexually, i is not any of my business to critique them.

The neutrality = condemnation in their opinion. They accept nothing less than total surrender.

 

[PruePhillip]

Adultry, divorce, polygamy depend on the culture of a person. It is not always considered bad. Divorce is so common around the world more so in West. Is it necessarily bad. I am told, don't know for sure, Eskimos has no problem about offering their women to guests. It was considered a part of hospitality. Many cultures had/have no problem with polygamy, if the person can support his wives.

And what if you encounter a society that has sex with dogs?
Are you saying wrong is right if it's in some relative cultural setting?
Can I eat people like the Aztecs did ????

 

[PruePhillip]

I dont understand your questions. I dont hold hate toward anyone

Do you hate people who hate LGBTQ ???

 

[KWED]

I did not start a thread about homophobia, I started a thread because of something you told mecyester day in a different debate.

I think you have religious phobia

But that is exactly what you did. My original point was about the homophobia, sexual discrimination and barbaric punishments in Bahai teachings.
When I first brought them up, your response was... "Dude, i know about the teaching, but i am not telling others what is right for them."

So you were aware of the homophobia in Bahai teachings but you didn't think it your place to come out against it. You then doubled down by saying you were "neutral" on the issue.
You started this thread presumably as an attempt to further justify your non-committal position of the pretty nasty homophobia in Bahai teachings.

Now, if you were opposed to the homophobia in Bahai texts then you would have said you were, so clearly you are not opposed to it. You have since clarified that you accept god's homophobic position as morally perfect by definition, even though you do not understand why he takes it.

Really not sure what you are complaining about.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Do you hate people who hate LGBTQ ???

I do not hate anyone

 

[Spirit of Light]

But that is exactly what you did. My original point was about the homophobia, sexual discrimination and barbaric punishments in Bahai teachings.
When I first brought them up, your response was... "Dude, i know about the teaching, but i am not telling others what is right for them."

So you were aware of the homophobia in Bahai teachings but you didn't think it your place to come out against it. You then doubled down by saying you were "neutral" on the issue.
You started this thread presumably as an attempt to further justify your non-committal position of the pretty nasty homophobia in Bahai teachings.

Now, if you were opposed to the homophobia in Bahai texts then you would have said you were, so clearly you are not opposed to it. You have since clarified that you accept god's homophobic position as morally perfect by definition, even though you do not understand why he takes it.

Really not sure what you are complaining about.

You claiming something you have no understanding of.

 

[KWED]

Baha'i teaching tell the followers how to understand and practicing the teaching, it does not tell other non Baha'i how to behave

1. I never claimed it did. I was always referring to Bahai.
However, by implication any person not following Bahai morality is considered immoral by bahai standards.
2. If a non-Bahai wants to become a Bahai for whatever reason (maybe they think it will get them to heaven, solve their problems, give them a sense of community, whatever), then they are obliged to live by that imposed ideology.

 

[Spirit of Light]

1. I never claimed it did. I was always referring to Bahai.
However, by implication any person not following Bahai morality is considered immoral by bahai standards.
2. If a non-Bahai wants to become a Bahai for whatever reason (maybe they think it will get them to heaven, solve their problems, give them a sense of community, whatever), then they are obliged to live by that imposed ideology.

A Baha'i live by the teaching their personal life. Not toward others.
What you do in your life is non of my business

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But that is exactly what you did. My original point was about the homophobia, sexual discrimination and barbaric punishments in Bahai teachings.
When I first brought them up, your response was... "Dude, i know about the teaching, but i am not telling others what is right for them."

So you were aware of the homophobia in Bahai teachings but you didn't think it your place to come out against it. You then doubled down by saying you were "neutral" on the issue.
You started this thread presumably as an attempt to further justify your non-committal position of the pretty nasty homophobia in Bahai teachings.

Now, if you were opposed to the homophobia in Bahai texts then you would have said you were, so clearly you are not opposed to it. You have since clarified that you accept god's homophobic position as morally perfect by definition, even though you do not understand why he takes it.

Really not sure what you are complaining about.

Read what the different Bahais are saying. There are many sins according to their God, but is for other humans with God. Their understanding of God is individual in effect. They believe in an universal God, but accept an individual approach.
Yes, that is not perfect, but I have never come across a perfect system with religion or without.

So again as for wrong persons. How do you know that?

 

[KWED]

This is one quote of Baha’u’llah that I think you’ve quoted. He is referring to numerous immoral acts.

Ye are forbidden to commit adultery, sodomy and lechery. Avoid them, O concourse of the faithful. By the righteousness of God! Ye have been called into being to purge the world from the defilement of evil passions.

The other quote also mentions adultery from Shoghi Effendi.

Bahá'u'lláh has spoken very strongly against this shameful sexual aberration, as He has against adultery and immoral conduct in general. We must try and help the soul to overcome them. (25 October 1949) [3]

So you confirm that Bahaism calls homosexuality a "shameful sexual aberration" that should be purged from the world - yet you also claim that Bahaism forbids being intolerant or prejudiced towards people.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

 

[PruePhillip]

I do not hate anyone

So is it possible there are people out there like you, and don't hate anyone?
And could some of these peope dislike the behavior, culture and politics of people who engage in certain LGBTQ practices, but don't hate the actual people?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

1. I never claimed it did. I was always referring to Bahai.
However, by implication any person not following Bahai morality is considered immoral by bahai standards.
2. If a non-Bahai wants to become a Bahai for whatever reason (maybe they think it will get them to heaven, solve their problems, give them a sense of community, whatever), then they are obliged to live by that imposed ideology.

Well, that is where I am beginning to doubt your understanding for the finer points.

 

[Brian2]

The neutrality = condemnation in their opinion. They accept nothing less than total surrender.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So is it possible there are people out there like you, and don't hate anyone?
And could some of these peope dislike the behavior, culture and politics of people who engage in certain LGBTQ practices, but don't hate the actual people?

You have to ask them about their feelings.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So you confirm that Bahaism calls homosexuality a "shameful sexual aberration" that should be purged from the world - yet you also claim that Bahaism forbids being intolerant or prejudiced towards people.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

And believing in wrong humans is funny, if it wasn't so sad, because so far in recorded history that has been without evidence.
If you want to play evidence, learn the limits of evidence and how morality works in practice in us all.

 

[Truthseeker]

So you confirm that Bahaism calls homosexuality a "shameful sexual aberration" that should be purged from the world - yet you also claim that Bahaism forbids being intolerant or prejudiced towards people.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I'm not intolerent and prejudiced towards practicing homosexuals, but you are intolerant and prejudiced against Baha'is, it seems.

 

[KWED]

I would suggest it is not that simple.

Thoughts, feelings and actions are not one and the same.

If I have a thought of murder, but don’t act on it I’m not a murderer. Being tempted by a given sin be it sex, killing or stealing a pack of gum is not the same as acting on it.

So you think that practicing homosexuality is "evil, immoral and a shameful sexual aberration". Do you also think it needs to be purged from the world?

 

[KWED]

Its all voluntary. I believe in this Faith because I believe it comes from God. I arrived at that conclusion myself and I think for myself. No one tells me how to think. I chose and still choose Baha’u’llah because I love His teachings. Nothing imposed here and I’m a Baha’i 45 years and I’m very happy with it. Those who don’t like it don’t join it but let us have the freedom to believe just as we let you to have your beliefs. We don’t interrogate why you believe what you do so you should accord us the same courtesy.

After 45 years I consider myself the luckiest person in the world to be a Baha’i. So if you don’t like it just walk away because I’m very happy with it.

Of course it is voluntary, but once you volunteer to be a Bahai, you are obliged to accept whatever Bahaullah says - even if it is nonsensical.

However, the problem here is with the nasty homophobia promoted by Bahai teachings. You said that you "love his teachings", so therefore you love the nasty homophobia (as well as the sexual discrimination and the barbaric punishments).
If a member of the KKK said they love its racist teachings and it takes them happy, would you think that's ok? Do you think that people who don't like organisation that promote racism should just walk away because the racists are happy with it?
Of course not.
So why do you think I should do the same with the homophobia in religion?