Homosexuality and religious.

[dybmh]

Targeting any class of people is sabotage to unity. And if Baha'u'llah didn't understand this basic truth, then that puts his credibility in doubt.

Yes.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The homophobic prejudice is manifest in your claims, and your religion's claims, and your blind adherence to such doctrine, and inability to recognise how pernicious aspects of your religion's doctrine are, doesn't change this fact.

Do you think gay people should have the same rights as straight people? It's not hard to discern or define prejudice.

That’s your opinion. And you views are your own not mine. So you can judge others all you like but that doesn’t mean you are right. I stand by Baha’u’llah’s teachings because I believe He’s a Manifestation of God and your views are based on your own fallible error prone mind.

Of course people who don’t believe in God will argue and dispute. But believers in God trust in Him and that He knows what is in our best interests.

 

[Vinayaka]

That’s your opinion. And you views are your own not mine. So you can judge others all you like but that doesn’t mean you are right. I stand by Baha’u’llah’s teachings because I believe He’s a Manifestation of God and your views are based on your own fallible error prone mind.

Of course people who don’t believe in God will argue and dispute. But believers in God trust in Him and that He knows what is in our best interests.

I'm a believer in God, and I most certainly don't trust your version of God nor his self proclaimed 'manifestation'.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It’s been a real pleasure discussing with you and I always try to learn from all. You have a great attitude towards homosexuals which is an example to others.

I know we don’t see eye to eye over Baha’u’llah’s Words but I still respect your views and believe you are well intentioned.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm a believer in God, and I most certainly don't trust your version of God nor his self proclaimed 'manifestation'.

That really doesn’t matter. I believe you are well intentioned and a good person just we have differing views. But anytime all are welcome for a hot curry and tea. Actually my wife made some delicious fried rice for breakfast and a hot milk tea and to me simple food is kingly.

 

[Vinayaka]

That really doesn’t matter. I believe you are well intentioned and a good person just we have differing views. But anytime all are welcome for a hot curry and tea. Actually my wife made some delicious fried rice for breakfast and a hot milk tea and to me simple food is kingly.

Classic change of topic strategy, but anyways do you figure you might want to be a bit more careful about your sweeping generalisations about believers, when you really just mean Bahai? Obviously, I don't feel you should be speaking for me on the subject of God. After all, I don't speak for you, and it seems fair to expect that back as a courtesy. (I don't have high expectations.)

 

[Vinayaka]

It’s been a real pleasure discussing with you and I always try to learn from all. You have a great attitude towards homosexuals which is an example to others.

I know we don’t see eye to eye over Baha’u’llah’s Words but I still respect your views and believe you are well intentioned.

You don't respect his views, c'mon. You might respect his right to have a view though.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I'm a believer in God, and I most certainly don't trust your version of God nor his self proclaimed 'manifestation'.

I used to be a believer in God until I finally accepted the painful fact that my hope and trust in him had been in vain. I endured severe abuse, neglect, and perpetual bullying for the extent of my childhood, despite my fervent prayers to God asking him to save me from the abuse and bullying I was suffering. I had to learn the hard way that I had to rely on myself to first save my life and then improve my life on my own, rather than waste any more time waiting on an apathetic God who had already allowed me and countless other children around the world to experience severe abuse, grave neglect, and vicious bullying. Speaking as a survivor of childhood abuse and as a former devout Christian, it was difficult for me to finally accept the painful truth that God is neither loving, just, nor merciful. It was also difficult for me to accept the painful truth that God obviously did not give a damn about me and that he obviously does not think that I, or any of the other untold numbers of survivors of abuse and currently abused children, are worth the trouble of saving. There is so much pain and suffering in the world today, and I simply can't believe that the God of the Bible is loving, just, and merciful.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Classic change of topic strategy, but anyways do you figure you might want to be a bit more careful about your sweeping generalisations about believers, when you really just mean Bahai? Obviously, I don't feel you should be speaking for me on the subject of God. After all, I don't speak for you, and it seems fair to expect that back as a courtesy. (I don't have high expectations.)

I don’t speak for anyone but myself but perhaps I need to make that clearer.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You don't respect his views, c'mon. You might respect his right to have a view though.

I don’t agree with them but I do respect his right to have those views.

 

[Dawnofhope]

This is an example of trying to massage the prejudice out of your religion's doctrines. Your response is absurd, as even modern KKK don't ride horses.

So comparing the Baha'is to the KKK isn't absurd and my post is absurd because the KKK no longer ride horses?

 

[F1fan]

That’s your opinion. And you views are your own not mine.

Good point, Sheldon is thinking and forming opinions via his own wits as a rational thinker. He isn't subjugating himself to someone else, and their thinking. Nor is he assuming the supernatural concepts are real, so that is an advantage in assessing moral values of the real world.

So you can judge others all you like but that doesn’t mean you are right.

Unless he judges gays as you do, right? As it is he is judging the veiws of others from facts and compassion, not any dogmas. So his approach is arguably superior.

I stand by Baha’u’llah’s teachings because I believe He’s a Manifestation of God and your views are based on your own fallible error prone mind.

Yet your decision that a God exists, and that Baha'u'llah is what he claims to be, is no less at issue with your fallible, error prone mind. What makes your decision true? You have an extraordinary set of beliefs that are not likely true given the lack of evidence for gods existing, and the many religious frauds that have existed through time.

Of course people who don’t believe in God will argue and dispute. But believers in God trust in Him and that He knows what is in our best interests.

Those who don't believe in implausible ideas like gods are not suffering the dilemma of a bad assumption. How can you trust a god that targets a class of people, and for something that doesn't hurt others?

 

[F1fan]

So comparing the Baha'is to the KKK isn't absurd and my post is absurd because the KKK no longer ride horses?

See how you are trying to deflect? Consciousness of guilt?

If you can't defend the prejudice against gays then just admit that.

Do you feel no feelings of sadness and regret when gays are hurt by your religion?

 

[Truthseeker]

Oh, and at some point, since Baha'is have all these laws supposedly from God, they are going to have to enforce them at some point. When is that? When a majority of people on the planet become Baha'is? When all people become Baha'is? Then what are you going to do with those that don't obey? Shun them? Fine them? Put them in Baha'i prisons? If so, it's not going to be a perfect, peaceful and unified world.

We don't know. It's up to each nation under the Baha'i Commonwealth what they will do is my understanding and the rights of the minority will be respected. I was concerned about this and wrote the Universal House of Justice. Here is my query and their reply:

Is there any definitive guidance on what we will do when the Baha’is become a majority in a country? Will the national assembly take over? Or will we form a new government by other means. I am worried about shutting people out of the administration of a government. I am afraid we will cause bad feelings. Could we have a different law for Baha’is and other people so as to not impose Baha’i law on others?

Mr. Duane Dawson

Dear Bahá’í Friend,

The Universal House of Justice has received your email message of 12 June 2018, seeking guidance about the nature of the administration of a country when the majority of its population will have accepted the Faith and how in that circumstance minorities would be treated. We have been asked to convey the following and regret the delay in our response. It is not possible to describe with particularity how the governance of a country might be affected when the majority of its people accept the Faith. However, any change will be by democratic means and not by force. The writings of our Faith make it clear that under a Bahá’í system the rights of minorities must always be respected and upheld. Shoghi Effendi has enunciated this principle:

Unlike the nations and peoples of the earth, be they of the East or of the West, democratic or authoritarian, communist or capitalist, whether belonging to the Old World or the New, who either ignore, trample upon, or extirpate, the racial, religious, or political minorities within the sphere of their jurisdiction, every organized community enlisted under the banner of Bahá’u’lláh should feel it to be its first and inescapable obligation to nurture, encourage, and safeguard every minority belonging to any faith, race, class, or nation within it. (The Advent of Divine Justice (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 2006, 2015 printing), p. 53) With loving Bahá’í greetings, Department of the Secretariat

 

[YoursTrue]

So you're prejudiced against them, and happy to say so, which is damaging and pernicious as we know, Now what word describes a prejudice against gay people? it's homophobia in case I was being too subtle there, that there are differing levels of homophobic prejudice is not in dispute.

Do I have to approve of homosexuality in order for you to think I am not prejudiced?

 

[YoursTrue]

That's clearly your problem not gay people's. plenty of children grow up with gay parents, and are the better for it. Children are not born with preconceived prejudices like homophobia, they're far more accepting that many adults. My step son separated from his first wife, who is now married to a woman she loves, the children love them all, and are thriving well adjusted children growing up in a loving home.

Yes, but a man can't get pregnant, can he? And yes, there are homosexual parents, that's true. Who knows, maybe one day a man can get pregnant you think?

 

[YoursTrue]

So you're prejudiced against them, and happy to say so, which is damaging and pernicious as we know, Now what word describes a prejudice against gay people? it's homophobia in case I was being too subtle there, that there are differing levels of homophobic prejudice is not in dispute.

You don't believe in God and/or the God of the Bible. OK, that's why you are where you are, and I am where I am, and I'll let God decide. Then again, at this point in my life, I don't believe that heterosexual persons should commit fornication or adultery. But if you do -- that's your choice.

 

[CG Didymus]

And what does God do personally? Nothing. He leaves the punishment to believers. Almost as if the God doesn't exist.

I understand you want to dump all the accountability on God, and just claim you have no choice, you are just following orders.

Because the Baha'i Faith teaches that their God is unknowable, then this God of theirs doesn't have to be real. But he becomes real inside their heads. And yet again, they are not supposed to follow superstitious beliefs. Their beliefs should be supported by science. At least I think that's how I thought it was supposed to be. But, obviously, that's not the case. The trust and "proof" is whatever their prophets told them about God, and their laws are whatever he told them were God's laws.

It would be dumb on are part not to expect and demand more proof and evidence.

 

[Dawnofhope]

See how you are trying to deflect? Consciousness of guilt?

If you can't defend the prejudice against gays then just admit that.

Do you feel no feelings of sadness and regret when gays are hurt by your religion?

Generally when people start resorting to personal attacks or blanket attacks like your ideology is like the Nazis or KKK its a sure sign they are unwilling or unable to engage in a sensible discussion.

 

[CG Didymus]

I think one way of understanding others beliefs was described beautifully by Rumi.

The truth was a mirror in the hands of God. It fell, and broke into pieces. Everybody took a piece of it, and they looked at it and thought they had the truth..

That's beautiful poetry, but it doesn't work. This is what I'm talking about...

More people have recognized the founder and prophet of the Ahmadiyya than Baha'u'llah. Since Baha'is don't believe his claims to be the Mahdi, then what happened to the 6th sense of those people? It is obvious, lots of people like religion. They like spiritual things, and they seek them out. But they come to believe in all sorts of things and religions.

Baha'is believe the founder of the Ahmadiyya was a false teacher/prophet. He was not the Mahdi. One of the Baha'i prophets was, either The Bab or Baha'u'llah or maybe you think both were, who knows?

Baha'is don't believe the true manifestations had a chip of a broken mirror. Baha'is believe each manifestation was a perfectly polished mirror that reflected God. But you know what, I like Rumi's idea better. Each had a piece of what they thought was the truth and pawned it off as being The Truth.