Homosexuality and religious.

[ppp]

I think you missed the point. I needed the loving support of both sexes not just my mother. A homosexual marriage cannot provide both male and female care, only the qualities of one sex which wasn’t enough for me.

I don't see how you can know that.

 

[CG Didymus]

But every Baha'i person could perfectly easily understand how immutable sexual orientation really is.

I confess, I've never had an honest answer from a heterosexual person to this thought experiment, but that doesn't mean they couldn't do it -- if they wanted to, if they really sought understanding.

And that thought experiment is simply to ask yourself, "if I were commanded to change my sexual orientation, how would I do it, could I even accomplish it?" I do not mean just to give in an do it with an individual of your own gender a time or two. I mean really to want a person of your own gender, for the rest of your life, and when seeing a member of the opposite gender (to which you are presently oriented) -- even naked -- to experience no desire, and perhaps even just a little revulsion.

And if they really, really thought about it, they could only answer, "I couldn't do it." And of course they couldn't. nobody expects that they could.

But it is what they expect of gay people like myself.

The Baha'i Faith is one of those religions that believes their God doesn't want people lusting, desiring, or in any way getting turned on over another person or even themselves. God can demand that all he wants, but he's still not going to be successful in getting most people, even his Baha'i people, to be able to live like that. So, what was the point? To get people in those religions to feel guilty?

And why someone is attracted to the same sex doesn't matter to me. What is important is that they are. Most people have changed their minds about gays. They no longer believe the things some of those religions tell them, that homosexuality is evil and sinful. They agree with gays and think it is alright for them to love and marry who they wish.

But what can religions do? They think their prophets spoke the truth from an all-powerful God. They think they have the "truth" from God on their side. For a Baha'i to give in would mean they are going against this religion they've given into. A religion they think can't be wrong about anything.

 

[CG Didymus]

A lot of theists imply it's a strong motivator, pleasant myths are easier to digest that unpleasant truths.

Believers are also promised that if they endure misery in this life for their God and religion, they will be rewarded. But, if they do go through misery here, they're supposed to be happy about it. If not true, that's the cruelest mind game there could be.

 

[CG Didymus]

If only they could find a prophet who wasn't a vile homophobe, they must be out there, given how many people claim to be a conduit to a deity.

Wasn't there gay, bi, and lesbian Gods and Goddesses in some religions? Especially the Greeks.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do I have to approve of homosexuality in order for you to think I am not prejudiced?

Yes you have to approve of homosexuality in order for these atheists to think your are not prejudiced...
The joke is on them though because they are just as prejudiced, prejudiced in favor of homosexuality, as all they have is a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
prejudice means - Google Search

 

[CG Didymus]

The laws of past ages were very harsh to protect the community. Laws are there to act as a deterrent. Throughout history in the Torah, the Gospels, the Quran and Baha’i Writings, homosexuality is condemned.

It is "condemned" that's what we're arguing about. Some people believe it shouldn't be. And even with the death sentence, it didn't stop homosexuality. Oh, but it doesn't have to be "harsh" today? You know... to "protect" the community?

 

[ppp]

Wasn't there gay, bi, and lesbian Gods and Goddesses in some religions? Especially the Greeks.

Norse too. Odin transitioned several times. And iirc, Loki was both a father and a mother.

 

[CG Didymus]

That was many years ago. I haven’t any idea if they are still around.

But how about then. Were they accepted and able to participate fully in the Baha'i community?

 

[Trailblazer]

The Baha'i Faith is one of those religions that believes their God doesn't want people lusting, desiring, or in any way getting turned on over another person or even themselves. God can demand that all he wants, but he's still not going to be successful in getting most people, even his Baha'i people, to be able to live like that. So, what was the point? To get people in those religions to feel guilty?

No, God won't get most people on board with the Baha'i standards of sexual behavior for a very long time because most people are not willing to sacrifice the sex they so desire, but it does not matter if most people don't adhere to the Baha'i Laws now, as the Laws were written for the next 1000 years. Eventually more people will realize these Laws are for their own benefit, but it will require more people recognizing the station of Baha'u'llah before that is going to happen.

 

[CG Didymus]

I really don’t think of them that way. I’d love to meet them if they are still alive. To me they were great friends. I’m not interested in their private life.

But that's the thing, the God of the Baha'is says it is a problem and is wrong and must be corrected. If our friends had some vice that was hurting them and others, like drugs or alcohol... or were sex addicts of any kind, to be a true friend wouldn't we and shouldn't try and help them? Now the thing is, and what some of the people here are saying, is that being gay is not a sickness. It is not some evil practice. People should be able to live it without being condemned.

If it's wrong, then you should condemn it and try to put a stop to it. Get them to get into therapy. You can't let evil persist. However, if it's not wrong, then accept gays as they are. But then it's your religion that is wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

Believers are also promised that if they endure misery in this life for their God and religion, they will be rewarded. But, if they do go through misery here, they're supposed to be happy about it. If not true, that's the cruelest mind game there could be.

Even if the religion is true, it is still a cruel game, to expect us to be happy while enduring misery.

 

[CG Didymus]

But don’t bully us to accept you views.

But Baha'is have the biggest bully on their side, an invisible God. Maybe not now, but in the olden days God used to threaten people with an eternity in hell. But, even today, God says there is only one correct view, and that is to see things his way.

 

[CG Didymus]

It’s not an issue for me. A person to me is a person and I try to see good in everyone.

What is the good you see in all of us that disagree with Baha'is on this issue? You do see that it seems like the right thing to do... to accept them and let them marry and live their lives.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes.

Targeting Baha'i people just because they do not agree with you is also sabotage to unity.
I am not saying that you are doing that, but all the atheists on this thread are doing that.

 

[CG Didymus]

The admonition that homosexuality is harmful is believed despite the absence of supporting evidence

And that is exactly what Baha'is are going to have to do to justify this belief. If it can't be supported, then by their own beliefs of science and religion should agree, they should reject their belief. Just a few things reinterpreted is all it would take.

 

[We Never Know]

Why is it "questionable"? It is a demonstrable fact that homosexual behaviour is observed in many other species.

What's your attitude towards religion? It can't be shown in other species, therefore it is not natural? It that right?

Do other species with two males have anal sex? Or just hump each other?
If a dog humps another male dog, is he gay or just trying to get rid of the urge?
If a dog humps your leg why is he doing it?

 

[We Never Know]

Oh you have evidence that the entire scientific world is unaware of then, that being gay is genetic? Or you just slipped a false equivalence fallacy in there, hoping no one would notice and challenge it.

"that being gay is genetic?"

Actually the link says there is no evidence of that. Read the link. Refute the link. Its that simple. Where are you confused?

 

[Trailblazer]

Read the link. Refute the link. Its that simple. Where are you confused?

@Sheldon cannot refute the link, so instead he obfuscates. That is a common atheist ploy.

 

[Trailblazer]

Read the link. Refute the link. Its that simple. Where are you confused?

Thanks. That was a great post and link. I just saved in in a Word document for future reverence.

 

[We Never Know]

Thanks. That was a great post and link. I just saved in in a Word document for future reverence.

Thanks. I edited my post to add a little more.