Homosexuality and religious.

[KWED]

He can point out anything he thinks. That is his free choice to do

And yet you keep attacking me on different threads for pointing out contradictions, inconsistencies and irrationality in religious claims. You do not attack my arguments but the mere fact that I am making them.
So, which is it?
(This is another of your inconsistencies, in case you hadn't noticed )

 

[KWED]

Simple. There are things that are harmful to others, such as rape and murder. For those, we need Laws and punishments. Homosexuality obviously has nothing to do with causing harm to other people. It is a personal choice.

So why does god have laws against it?

 

[KWED]

If a person is in any way homosexual and have sex with their partner of choice, it is non of my f-ing business

But you accept that it is god's business, and god is against it, and you agree with god. Correct?

 

[Trailblazer]

Let me ask this
- What happens to a Baha'i if he or she is homosexual?
- If there is no punishment, does it mean it is ok to be gay in Baha'i?
- If there is punishment or discouragement of being gay in Baha'i, does it mean it is not ok?

- There is no punishment unless that Baha'i is blatantly homosexual in public. What they do in their own homes is their own business. What can happen if they are flagrant is that the Baha'i could lose voting rights, but that is all.

- There is discouragement but the only punishment is noted above. The fact that there are no other punishment does not mean it is ok for a Baha'i to engage in homosexual acts. It is not ok because it is against Baha'i Laws.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And yet you keep attacking me on different threads for pointing out contradictions, inconsistencies and irrationality in religious claims. You do not attack my arguments but the mere fact that I am making them.
So, which is it?
(This is another of your inconsistencies, in case you hadn't noticed )

You are free to say what you think is right for you, I am equally in my right to be your opposition when it comes to speaking about my personal belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

Perhaps it is your God that is homophobic, then?

No, because God does not have dislike of or prejudice against gay people.

 

[Trailblazer]

The quote that is being used in this debate is "a shameful sexual aberration that needs to be purged from the planet".

1) Is this an accurate quote from Baha'u'llah's scripture?
2) If so, "needs to be purged from the planet" expands the scope far beyond prohibiting homosexual acts for those who are Baha'i.

Glad you asked.
"a shameful sexual aberration" is in the Baha'i Writings but "that needs to be purged from the planet" was an addition by KWED.

Baha'u'llah did not say homosexuality was a shameful sexual aberration, Shoghi Effendi said that.

 

[Goldemar]

- There is no punishment unless that Baha'i is blatantly homosexual in public. What they do in their own homes is their own business. What can happen if they are flagrant is that the Baha'i could lose voting rights, but that is all.

- There is discouragement but the only punishment is noted above. The fact that there are no other punishment does not mean it is ok for a Baha'i to engage in homosexual acts. It is not ok because it is against Baha'i Laws.

If it is not okay because it is against Baha'i laws, what are the implications of that? Will God punish a Baha'i who engages in homosexual sexual activity?

 

[dybmh]

Glad you asked.
"a shameful sexual aberration" is in the Baha'i Writings but "that needs to be purged from the planet" was an addition by KWED.

Baha'u'llah did not say homosexuality was a shameful sexual aberration, Shoghi Effendi said that.

Thank you

@KWED, the ball is in your court to provide a source text for the quote you are using.

 

[RAYYAN]

- There is no punishment unless that Baha'i is blatantly homosexual in public. What they do in their own homes is their own business. What can happen if they are flagrant is that the Baha'i could lose voting rights, but that is all.

- There is discouragement but the only punishment is noted above. The fact that there are no other punishment does not mean it is ok for a Baha'i to engage in homosexual acts. It is not ok because it is against Baha'i Laws.

Thank you,
That is clear

 

[Goldemar]

No, because God does not have dislike of or prejudice against gay people.

He clearly has a very strong dislike of homosexual sexual activity. How do you think that would make a Baha'i who engages in homosexual sexual activity feel?

 

[KWED]

That person's conclusion about you was quite wrong, have no fear.

That wasn't my conclusion though. There is nothing in that discussion that even implies that "The person who made the question then directly assumed i had to be a homophobic, hateful person against every LGBTQ person."
(I hesitate to call @Seeker of White Light dishonest because they do seem prone to confusion over what words mean, but what I said and what they accuse me of where is so different, one has to wonder).

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry, my mistake. It is actually "a shameful sexual aberration that needs to be purged from the world"

I could find no Baha'i Writings that say that needs to be purged from the world.

Extracts from letters written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi:

...Bahá'u'lláh has spoken very strongly against this shameful sexual aberration, as He has against adultery and immoral conduct in general. We must try and help the soul to overcome them. (25 October 1949) [3]

Homosexuality

 

[KWED]

I can't deny that any opinion against homosexuality and/or related natures/acts are by definition homophobic, but not necessarily intolerant or hateful.
When the person in question lives by such standards, but feels that what other people do is their business without any hard feelings on that matter, I wouldn't call such an individual hateful/intolerant, but rather the contrary.

Sorry. Just can't see how "homosexuality is a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world" can ever be described as a loving and tolerant position, even if it is just held as an idea rather than put into practice.

 

[Spirit of Light]

That wasn't my conclusion though. There is nothing in that discussion that even implies that "The person who made the question then directly assumed i had to be a homophobic, hateful person against every LGBTQ person."
(I hesitate to call @Seeker of White Light dishonest because they do seem prone to confusion over what words mean, but what I said and what they accuse me of where is so different, one has to wonder).

If you think I am dishonest @KWED go ahead and say it, I often disagree with you here in RF, that does not make me dishonest.

 

[Trailblazer]

He clearly has a very strong dislike of homosexual sexual activity. How do you think that would make a Baha'i who engages in homosexual sexual activity feel?

God's Laws are not written to appeal to people and make them feel good.

It is not only homosexual acts that are forbidden in Baha'i Law, sex out of wedlock is also strictly forbidden. It is allowable for a Baha'i homosexual to have gender reassignment surgery, marry, and have sex in marriage.

 

[KWED]

So if a bunch of people decide to practice God's law by killing every homosexual they meet, you wouldn't judge that as being wrong?

Yikes, that's a bit strong!
Perhaps @Seeker of White Light would prefer something like "purging the world of the shameful aberration", or something like that?

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry. Just can't see how "homosexuality is a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world" can ever be described as a loving and tolerant position, even if it is just held as an idea rather than put into practice.

I am still waiting for the quote in the Baha'i Writings that says: "homosexuality is a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world"

 

[KWED]

If you think I am dishonest @KWED go ahead and say it, I often disagree with you here in RF, that does not make me dishonest.

You completely misrepresented what I said.
Whether it was through dishonesty or confusion I wouldn't like to say. Only you can clarify.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yikes, that's a bit strong!
Perhaps @Seeker of White Light would prefer something like "purging the world of the shameful aberration", or something like that?

I am still waiting for the quote in the Baha'i Writings that says: "homosexuality is a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world"