Homosexuality and religious.

[loverofhumanity]

THAT IS SIMPLY OUTRAGEOUS!!!

The LGBTQ community is not anything even remotely comparable to a "religion." The fact is that you cannot even CONCEIVE of the notion that we would simply like NOT to be REJECTED by bigots and religions who are totally ignorant of what sexual identity and sexual attraction are all about in humans.

I'll say it out loud, though I may be censured -- ignorance, pure and simple, ignorance that is could be remediated by actual learning (which religions want none of), is what we are trying to overcome.

YOU are just one of the vectors of the promulgation of that ignorance, because you placed the lives and well-being of your fellow human beings BELOW your devotion to the ignorant opinions a so-called "prophet" who -- and this is a fact -- had no formal education.

It acts worse than the worst fanatical extremist religionists that's why I’m labelling it as if it’s a religion. It undermines freedom of worship and belief and abuses the rights of others to believe what they will without harassment and false accusations of homophobia.

Just because Baha’is don’t endorse homosexuality doesn’t mean they are homophobic or hate gays but in the fanaticism of the gay lobby, that’s the tactics they employ to try and fanatically force people to endorse their views and anyone who disagrees with homosexuality is labelled a homophobic.

The only problem here that I see is that some act like Christians who say that those who reject Christ are headed for eternal hell and damnation. It’s the exact same tactic used to try and forcefully gain endorsement of homosexuality.

If people don’t endorse it just let them be. Our community is not going around killing gays or protesting on the streets against them or running campaigns against them. We just won’t endorse it as moral.

But fanatics will never accept anything but endorsement. So sad that on the one hand the very same people speaking of ‘tolerance’ are themselves so intolerant trying every which way to force, coerce and bully Baha’is to endorse their views.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It acts worse than the worst fanatical extremist religionists that's why I’m labelling it as if it’s a religion. It undermines freedom of worship and belief and abuses the rights of others to believe what they will without harassment and false accusations of homophobia.

Just because Baha’is don’t endorse homosexuality doesn’t mean they are homophobic or hate gays but in the fanaticism of the gay lobby, that’s the tactics they employ to try and fanatically force people to endorse their views and anyone who disagrees with homosexuality is labelled a homophobic.

The only problem here that I see is that some act like Christians who say that those who reject Christ are headed for eternal hell and damnation. It’s the exact same tactic used to try and forcefully gain endorsement of homosexuality.

If people don’t endorse it just let them be. Our community is not going around killing gays or protesting on the streets against them or running campaigns against them. We just won’t endorse it as moral.

But fanatics will never accept anything but endorsement. So sad that on the one hand the very same people speaking of ‘tolerance’ are themselves so intolerant trying every which way to force, coerce and bully Baha’is to endorse their views.

Totally, totally amazing. I talked about "acceptance," and you CHANGED THAT to "endorsement."

That is the sign of willful blindness, and all I have to say to you, until you can get off your high horse, stand down here on the ground with me, and understand that if you will not allow somebody into your club because of what they are, that is an admission that you dislike, do not accept, reject (pick your word), what they are.

That is simple enough for anybody to understand. Even religious people.

Years and years ago, the very posh Granite Club (you know, the country club for the very rich) here in Toronto would never accept a Jew as a member. So the Jews in Toronto built themselves a better club -- the Primrose Club. Nobody will ever convince me that the Christian members of the Granite Club who refused to have a Jewish member "didn't hate Jews, didn't dismiss Jews." That's exactly what they did. The club, after all, was not about religion -- it was about tennis and other sports, dining, the usual stuff. It wasn't a church.

"Oh, yes, Jews are all okay in our view -- we just can't allow them in the same room as us." Never going to carry any weight with me.

 

[Vinayaka]

Here's an interesting story.

Saskatoon police charge member of faith group with sexual exploitation | Globalnews.ca

 

[loverofhumanity]

THAT IS SIMPLY OUTRAGEOUS!!!

The LGBTQ community is not anything even remotely comparable to a "religion." The fact is that you cannot even CONCEIVE of the notion that we would simply like NOT to be REJECTED by bigots and religions who are totally ignorant of what sexual identity and sexual attraction are all about in humans.

I'll say it out loud, though I may be censured -- ignorance, pure and simple, ignorance that is could be remediated by actual learning (which religions want none of), is what we are trying to overcome.

YOU are just one of the vectors of the promulgation of that ignorance, because you placed the lives and well-being of your fellow human beings BELOW your devotion to the ignorant opinions a so-called "prophet" who -- and this is a fact -- had no formal education.

Homosexuals are equal human beings and no one has the right to kill or harm them. But at the same time it should not be the case that people who don’t believe in it are attacked for not endorsing it. Yes I believe what Baha’u’llah yes just like you believe what your mind tells you. And I can accept that you are an equal but many do not accept Bahais as being entitled to freedom of believe without hurling accusations of homophobia. Baha’is are not homophobic and the Baha’i teachings do not teach it. They teach to love gays as any other person but do not endorse the act of homosexuality. And this refusal to endorse it is being used as an excuse to accuse us of homophobia. I reject that.

I personally think it’s unfair, immature and childish to continue to use the homophobia card to try and force others to endorse your beliefs. If you don’t agree and you think we are acting criminally then report us to the police or take us to court because we have done nothing wrong yet accusations of homophobia are being made just because we do not endorse homosexuality. Who says we have to endorse it?

As I said. If you really believe that the Baha’i Faith is homophobic and discriminatory of gays then report our religion to human rights organisations and police. If we have done anything wrong let them decide.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Totally, totally amazing. I talked about "acceptance," and you CHANGED THAT to "endorsement."

That is the sign of willful blindness, and all I have to say to you, until you can get off your high horse, stand down here on the ground with me, and understand that if you will not allow somebody into your club because of what they are, that is an admission that you dislike, do not accept, reject (pick your word), what they are.

That is simple enough for anybody to understand. Even religious people.

Years and years ago, the very posh Granite Club (you know, the country club for the very rich) here in Toronto would never accept a Jew as a member. So the Jews in Toronto built themselves a better club -- the Primrose Club. Nobody will ever convince me that the Christian members of the Granite Club who refused to have a Jewish member "didn't hate Jews, didn't dismiss Jews." That's exactly what they did. The club, after all, was not about religion -- it was about tennis and other sports, dining, the usual stuff. It wasn't a church.

"Oh, yes, Jews are all okay in our view -- we just can't allow them in the same room as us." Never going to carry any weight with me.

Homosexuals are not rejected. They can become Baha’is. So a member may be a homosexual Baha’i for 50 years. I knew many homosexual Baha’is. It is an individual thing between the believer and God. But even if they cannot overcome their gay tendencies they have a responsibility not to promote it within the community as it is against our laws.

 

[Vinayaka]

Here's a scholarly book, claiming to be the first of its kind, on the subject. That is, is anyone is interested.

https://www.amazon.com/I-dont-want-..._cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8#customerReviews

 

[loverofhumanity]

Here's a scholarly book, claiming to be the first of its kind, on the subject. That is, is anyone is interested.

https://www.amazon.com/I-dont-want-be-Tāhirih/dp/3732316548/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8#customerReviews

I haven’t read it yet have you?

 

[dybmh]

The homosexual lobby is worse than the most extremist religious fanatics intolerantly attempting to force their views on others and when refused attack them calling them homophobic.

Worse than ISIS. You're exaggerating.

Anyway, without some source or example this sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory.

 

[Vinayaka]

I haven’t read it yet have you?

I read the reviews. I'm not interested enough to order a book on this topic. What I am interested in is the stories of those most affected by it, which are gay Baha'is, who have no voice here. According to the last review, the book is neutral, not taking sides, and that the stories of gay Baha'is are as diverse as the faith itself. Now I await my turn to be accused of hate.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Homosexuals are not rejected. They can become Baha’is. So a member may be a homosexual Baha’i for 50 years. I knew many homosexual Baha’is. It is an individual thing between the believer and God.

What does that mean, exactly? "Homosexuals...can become Baha'is?" Does that include living their lives as they see fit -- like, with their spouse, like every other Baha'i?

But even if they cannot overcome their gay tendencies they have a responsibility not to promote it within the community as it is against our laws.

If you wouldn't mind, would you explain to us how -- if it were necessary, you could "overcome your straight tendencies?" I'm sure we'd all be fascinated with the process.

 

[dybmh]

. I see all as equals so all are welcome.

No. You are contradicting yourself. You don't see the, so-called, homosexual lobby as equals. You see them as the worst fanatics, worse than religious extremists. See below:

The homosexual lobby is worse than the most extremist religious fanatics intolerantly attempting to force their views on others and when refused attack them calling them homophobic.

When you judge one group is worse than another group, you cannot at the same time "see all as equals".

 

[dybmh]

Baha’u’llah’s teachings are to protect us from such disgusting criminal behaviour which almost ended in me being raped. You want to stand up for such disgusting behaviour then go right ahead but I was very, very happy when I learned Baha’u’llah condemned all this sort of immoral stuff. To be fair there are many good homosexuals who would never do such a thing but I’m never ever going to endorse it and I’m glad I belong to a religion which tries to help us realise life is not just about sex.

This has to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard. Banning homosexuality is supposed to prevent rape? Get real.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Worse than ISIS. You're exaggerating.

Anyway, without some source or example this sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory.

Im not saying that. Only that fanatics have a habit of forcing their beliefs on others instead of just agreeing to disagree. People try to force the Baha’i Faith, through attacking it, to endorse same sex marriage. No need to attack us. Just go their own way and let us go ours.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Baha’is are not homophobic and the Baha’i teachings do not teach it. They teach to love gays as any other person but do not endorse the act of homosexuality.

Can't help but make me wonder whether Bahai's would endorse the act of a heterosexual male tupping a female he neither liked nor was attracted to -- maybe just to make a baby, or consumate an arranged marriage to ensure family property doesn't stray.

And I'll say this -- I bet they would. Every other religion does.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

This has to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard. Banning homosexuality is supposed to prevent rape? Get real.

Once you get bound up in trying to defend the indefensible, there's no telling what strategy you'll try next. I've always found that funny, actually.

 

[dybmh]

Just because Baha’is don’t endorse homosexuality doesn’t mean they are homophobic or hate gays

Meh, you already admitted you think it's "disgusting". So you, sir, are talking like a homophobe. Your repeated denial means nothing.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This has to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard. Banning homosexuality is supposed to prevent rape? Get real.

I just related a personal experience of mine. I’m only saying that I disagree with homosexuality.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Im not saying that. Only that fanatics have a habit of forcing their beliefs on others instead of just agreeing to disagree. People try to force the Baha’i Faith, through attacking it, to endorse same sex marriage. No need to attack us. Just go their own way and let us go ours.

But you see -- I've always let you go your own way. I've never tried to get the Baha'i faith to change its stance on any doctrine. Heck, I've never tried to the get the Catholic Church, or the Baptists, Pentecostals, Eastern Orthodox, Jews, Rastafarians -- none of them -- to change their views.

All we're trying to do is point out that your beliefs, as stated and held by you, encourage turning some people into those who you belittle as not worthy.

That's not us rejecting you. That's you rejecting us. Sorry, but you are you just going to have to live with that truth for the simple reason that it IS the truth.

 

[Vinayaka]

I just related a personal experience of mine. I’m only saying that I disagree with homosexuality.

So it's okay for you to disagree with homosexuality but it's not okay for anyone to disagree with the Baha'i faith official stance on it? Yeah that's reasonable. (sigh)

 

[loverofhumanity]

Meh, you already admitted you think it's "disgusting". So you, sir, are talking like a homophobe. Your repeated denial means nothing.

If you say so. You’re entitled to your opinion as me mine. But resorting to the homophobic card is oppressing a person from having a different opinion.

I have always treated homosexuals kindly. I believe homophobia is only when one deliberately sets out to kill or injure not just have a belief. The fact I don’t endorse it doesn’t mean I am homophobic. Do I say you are anti Baha’i because you don’t accept Baha’u’llah? It’s you’re right to have your opinion. Even if you think ill of Baha’u’llah I wouldn’t get defensive and call you prejudiced because I respect your rights to believe what you like.