Homosexuality and religious.

[CG Didymus]

Christianity itself teaches progressive revelation

To this I asked this...

What did it say about Hinduism, Buddhism and Zoroastrianism?

I don't know of anything in the NT that includes these other major religions in the progression.

And who is the "Lamb"? Not some random opinion from some Baha'i, but a quote from Baha'u'llah, Abdul Baha or Shoghi Effendi.

And I didn't see your response to this either. It is important since the Lamb is the main character in the Book of Revelation.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Lots of folks who have strong beliefs in God don't believe in infallibility. I'll dispute the idea of infallibility all day, but I absolutely believe in God. Just were are you getting this information from?

I now believe in God. I was born a catholic but became atheist. Then I heard about Baha’i but opposed it because I couldn’t accept that God existed. After years I began to read what Baha’u’llah said about God and I realised I was mistaken and this time really believed. That was 45 years ago.

On infallibility there are many Baha’i writings but this particular one of Baha’u’llah I think stands out. I understand you do not accept the concept. The ‘infallible Balance’ is the Law of God for this age - The Most Holy Book.

Say: This is the infallible Balance which the Hand of God is holding, in which all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth are weighed, and their fate determined, if ye be of them that believe and recognize this truth. – Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, pp. 136-137.

 

[CG Didymus]

As you know, very often there is no response. That's one way of 'dealing' with it if you can't come up with a sensible counterpoint.

Yes, it seems like Baha'is believe that once the "manifestation" did his thing, the religion decayed. But in some of the cases, the new manifestation had nothing to do with the religion that was started by the previous manifestation.

But it seems that every religion evolves and progresses within itself. Like how much did the coming of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Baha'i duo affect and influence Hinduism?

 

[Vinayaka]

I now believe in God. I was born a catholic but became atheist. Then I heard about Baha’i but opposed it because I couldn’t accept that God existed. After years I began to read what Baha’u’llah said about God and I realised I was mistaken and this time really believed. That was 45 years ago.

On infallibility there are many Baha’i writings but this particular one of Baha’u’llah I think stands out. I understand you do not accept the concept. The ‘infallible Balance’ is the Law of God for this age - The Most Holy Book.

Say: This is the infallible Balance which the Hand of God is holding, in which all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth are weighed, and their fate determined, if ye be of them that believe and recognize this truth. – Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, pp. 136-137.

Yes, I know your story. It's been told repeatedly, and I do have some memory remaining. No need to repeat it every day. If any reader is interested in this debate, here's the link... Infallibility

I have no intention of repeating it.

 

[dybmh]

Nonsense.

The Promise of World Peace—The Universal House of Justice

Well... Google searching "Baha'i World Domination" didn't return anything incriminating.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, it seems like Baha'is believe that once the "manifestation" did his thing, the religion decayed. But in some of the cases, the new manifestation had nothing to do with the religion that was started by the previous manifestation.

But it seems that every religion evolves and progresses within itself. Like how much did the coming of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Baha'i duo affect and influence Hinduism?

There has been very little influence directly on the tenets of Hinduism, as far as I know. There has been a great deal of disharmony and pain created in and around Hindu society by invasions, and subsequent proselytisers. So any influence has been 99% negative. The ancient Tirukkural, a classical ethical scripture has all we need.

 

[Vinayaka]

Just as Baha'ullah;s letter to world leaders were all kept track of, but there is no evidence of any response, so too it seems with the UHJ letters. I searched for 'responses to' and didn't find anything. Still it's nice that more people are thinking of world peace.

 

[loverofhumanity]

To this I asked this...

I don't know of anything in the NT that includes these other major religions in the progression.

And I didn't see your response to this either. It is important since the Lamb is the main character in the Book of Revelation.

The seven days of creation according to Abdul-Baha are referring to Divine Days. That’s is, the Day in which a Manifestation of God appears. So that includes the major religions over the past 7,000 odd years.

There are as yet untranslated Tablets that discuss a lot more than we have available now. Many passages in Revelation were explained by Baha’u’llah, Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi over various Tablets and letters.

I am aware of at least two passages in Revelation where Baha’u’llah refers to Himself as having been mentioned. One of them I think is the passage regarding the Lamb which you mentioned but the Glory of God is the central Figure along with the Lamb. In that passage Two Manifestations of God are mentioned. The Glory of God and the Lamb. Revelation is referring about ‘things to come’ not Christs first coming. In His first coming Christ came with John the Baptist as herald but who was not a Manifestation of God.in the Second Coming both the Lamb and Glory of God are mentioned.

Here’s the links and passage. But you can research these things for yourself also.

The Greek doxa in the NewTestament and theophanic-messianic splendour in Christian Literatures. | Hurqalya Publications: Center for Shaykhī and Bābī-Bahā’ī Studies

Jesus Foretold the “Glory of God” – Baha’u’llah


Baha’u’llah quoted it directly in one of his tablets, as seen in the following provisional translation from a Tablet to Ḥájí Ilyáhú Cohen (the first among the Jews of Kashan, Iran, to embrace the Baha’i Faith), in which Baha’u’llah proclaims:

This day the City of God hath appeared and can be witnessed in perfect adornment. This is the City in which the God of all peoples hath appeared. Ponder these words of John, who announced the great and sacred City and said: “And I saw no temple in it; for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it; for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light of it.” – Baha’u’llah, citing Revelation 21:22–23,

(provisional translation by Nahzy Abadi Buck and Christopher Buck, quoted in “The Eschatology of Globalization: Baha’u’llah’s Multiple-Messiahship Revisited,” Studies in Modern Religions, Religious Movements and the Babi-Baha’i Faiths, p. 150.)

This makes Revelation 21:23 part and parcel of Baha’i scripture. It’s also clear that Baha’u’llah wanted to draw attention to this key verse as a “proof-text” (as scholars say) of Baha’u’llah’s own mission. Why? Because Jesus – whether specifically or symbolically or even coincidentally – foretells the advent of Baha’u’llah by name. The Baha’i scholar Stephen Lambden explains:

The Arabic word bahā’ is, however, found at certain points in Arabic versions of the New Testament and in other Arabic writings. A good example occurs in Revelation 21:23 where John of Patmos predicts, “And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine upon it, for the glory of God (= Bahā’-Allāh) is its light, and its lamp is the Lamb.”

In one of his Tablets to a Jewish Baha’i, Bahā’-Allāh [Baha’u’llah] cites this verse in Arabic exactly as it was printed in the London 1858 (1671) edition of the William Watts Arabic Bible for the Eastern Churches. – Stephen Lambden, “The Greek doxa in the New Testament and theophanic-messianic splendour in Christian Literatures”

 

[F1fan]

Because you do not believe in God you dispute infallibility but I believe in God so to me infallibility is real. So it’s a matter of belief in God.

There are theists who believe in some sort of God and don't accept your texts as legitimate, so citing my non-belief is irrelevant.

The text is bigoted and has errors that are revealed by science since they were written. That is why they are not accepted as infallible. And as I have noted the texts aren't saying anything humanists and atheists don;t know via their own wits. What is curious to me is why any human beings need to follow a guru at all. Are these people incapable of taking care of their own moral thoughts? Are they lost and confused and need a leader to follow?

But I’m not going to argue that issue because only people who have found God know He exists while those who have not found Him will dispute forever endlessly so it’s really a waste of time.

Yet they ignore the bigoted issue. Even you don't address, rather you go off with general deflections about me. You must be aware of the troubling flaw bigotry is in the 21st century.

And none of you can explain how you "know" God exists. This is just a bogus claim that suggests you are overcompensating for your lack of humility and no credible responses to criticisms.

If you can’t believe in God then that’s not my problem for I have found God and I’m more than happy with my find.

You've found a bigoted God, and that IS your problem, along with Bahai as a whole in the 21st century. Atheists are free to be moral and accept all people of all types.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There has been very little influence directly on the tenets of Hinduism, as far as I know. There has been a great deal of disharmony and pain created in and around Hindu society by invasions, and subsequent proselytisers. So any influence has been 99% negative. The ancient Tirukkural, a classical ethical scripture has all we need.

I thought things like the internet, mobile phone, cars and planes would have affected every household on the planet.

 

[F1fan]

I now believe in God. I was born a catholic but became atheist. Then I heard about Baha’i but opposed it because I couldn’t accept that God existed. After years I began to read what Baha’u’llah said about God and I realised I was mistaken and this time really believed. That was 45 years ago.

On infallibility there are many Baha’i writings but this particular one of Baha’u’llah I think stands out. I understand you do not accept the concept. The ‘infallible Balance’ is the Law of God for this age - The Most Holy Book.

Say: This is the infallible Balance which the Hand of God is holding, in which all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth are weighed, and their fate determined, if ye be of them that believe and recognize this truth. – Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, pp. 136-137.

So you think it is infallible because the text say it's infallible? Do you not know what circular reasoning is?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, the Bahai's will rule the world. I'm not exactly as confident as you, my friend.

That's OK, I also do not see that happening. The rule of the world in never the aim of Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, is that it? The ultimate peace plan? If everyone agrees with me, no one would ever fight again?

That's OK, I also do not see that happening. The rule of the world in never the aim of Faith.

Regards Tony

Here is a peace plan offered in 1985.

The Promise of World Peace—The Universal House of Justice

Regards Tony

 

[dybmh]

Here is a peace plan offered in 1985.

The Promise of World Peace—The Universal House of Justice

Regards Tony

Yes, I tried to read it. It's difficult to see the actual "plan" here. I did, of course, notice that all fanatical religions would need to cease. This reminds me of the requirement to {paraphrasing} "abandon all blind adherence to ancestral religious practices." That to me is not a good thing, as it prohibits practicing Judaism in its traditional ancient manner. I mentioned this previously in this thread.

Edit to add: here's the exact quote: "each person must set aside superstitious beliefs, traditions and blind imitation of ancestral forms of religion" - The Baha'i Peace Plan

 

[CG Didymus]

Because you do not believe in God you dispute infallibility but I believe in God so to me infallibility is real. So it’s a matter of belief in God. But I’m not going to argue that issue because only people who have found God know He exists while those who have not found Him will dispute forever endlessly so it’s really a waste of time. If you can’t believe in God then that’s not my problem for I have found God and I’m more than happy with my find.

It seems to me more like you have found the Baha'i Faith and believe what it tells you about God. I don't see how you could say that Trinitarian Christians have found God when the God they say they believe in is something Baha'is believe is a false belief. And it is usually that Trinitarian God that Atheists believe doesn't exist. And Baha'is would agree with that, right? However, that Christian God and the Baha'i God is completely unprovable. So, why expect all people to be gullible enough to believe in that God?

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha’u’llah did bring a blueprint for a new world civilisation. It’s a complete waste of time having a discussion on this until you decide to do proper research into what Baha’u’llah teaches.

There's been so many threads started by Baha'is that could be described as complete wastes of time. The actual plan for a new world civilization I would hope has something useful for all of us to know about and debate about.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, I tried to read it. It's difficult to see the actual "plan" here. I did, of course, notice that all fanatical religions would need to cease. This reminds me of the requirement to {paraphrasing} "abandon all blind adherence to ancestral religious practices." That to me is not a good thing, as it prohibits practicing Judaism in its traditional ancient manner. I mentioned this previously in this thread.

Edit to add: here's the exact quote: "each person must set aside superstitious beliefs, traditions and blind imitation of ancestral forms of religion" - The Baha'i Peace Plan

Yes, this is the age of both science and Religion, how they both are the wings of one bird!

There is much written on this required balance.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

There has been very little influence directly on the tenets of Hinduism, as far as I know. There has been a great deal of disharmony and pain created in and around Hindu society by invasions, and subsequent proselytisers. So any influence has been 99% negative. The ancient Tirukkural, a classical ethical scripture has all we need.

Of course, it's not only Hinduism, but Baha'is have nothing in common with Evangelical Christianity either. Which is why I don't believe in the Baha'i thing about "progressive" revelation. But Christianity has probably been the worst, since it absolutely believes it is the only way and is the infallible truth. It has nothing in common with Hinduism and comes in trying to replace and get rid of Hinduism. But, to me, the Baha'is are essentially doing the same thing. But instead of saying it is wrong, evil and a false religion. They'll say it's true, or it was true, but now it's not and "true spiritual" people will replace their old Hindu beliefs with the upgrade religion, the Baha'i Faith.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, this is the age of both science and Religion, how they both are the wings of one bird!

There is much written on this required balance.

Regards Tony

Accept when it comes to homosexuality?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Accept when it comes to homosexuality?

The balance is found in Law, even if humanity is not ready to see that CG.

All the best, Regards Tony