Homosexuality and religious.

[Sheldon]

they are free to do that

Why am I (or anyone else) not free to hold to a different opinion?

Who's stopped anyone expressing homophobic opinions?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well that's clear as mud.

Maybe because your own eyes are what is full of mud...to see the truth each person has to wipe their own mud out of their eyes.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Who's stopped anyone expressing homophobic opinions?

In India, it will be a punishable crime, really - speaking against a section of people, spreading hate.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Well that's clear as mud.

Its crystal clear to me. For now Baha'is don't involve themselves with partisan politics. In the very distant future, should a clear majority of the world's population become Baha'i, the world may choose a Baha'i system of government.

 

[Sheldon]

The beautiful thing I find about God is that He lets us make our own choices. He hates wars but He allowed us to have two world wars and many civil wars now. He dislikes many things and says so but never forces us to obey Him. He only wants us to follow His Ways if we voluntarily want to out of love for Him.

Odd but you're not the first theist to claim they think it a "beautiful" idea, that a deity cares more about the free will of murderers and rapists, than about their victims suffering. So sits on its hands while children are raped and says yeah go ahead I won't stop you, but I will punish you later.

They never seem to realise just how monstrously barbaric a deity they've imagined.

 

[Sheldon]

In India, it will be a punishable crime, really - speaking against a section of people, spreading hate.

It's a fine line, and I have no problem with hate speech having legal ramifications, but I meant on here, though I hadn't made that clear perhaps.

 

[YoursTrue]

The "different" opinion IS homophobic, you can't decry homosexuality and claim you're not homophobic, that's absurd. You may want to believe you're not being homophobic, but you certainly are, as your religion clearly is.

If i believed man's philosophy I might go along with the idea that homosexual behavior is ok. As a Christian, i believe what the Bible says about this. To start, however, the Bible does disapprove of homosexual acts,still it does not condone hatred of homosexuals or homophobia. Christians are directed to respect everyone.—1 Peter 2:17
Also, 1 Corinthians 6:9 explicitly tells ME and those who respect the word of God (not saying you want to believe it) what God does not approve of.
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men."

 

[Trailblazer]

Ohhh that sound like a riot can i join in

Welcome aboard the Baha'i boat.

 

[Trailblazer]

The "different" opinion IS homophobic, you can't decry homosexuality and claim you're not homophobic, that's absurd. You may want to believe you're not being homophobic, but you certainly are, as your religion clearly is.

Keep going...
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[Bree]

No one is stopping you from having the opinion that some minority group should not have the agenda of living their life with the partner of their choice, making a life, raising a family and growing old together.

but homosexuality is not about that.

Its about sex.

And the reason i can say that is because I could do exactly the same thing with a friend of the same gender and not be inclined to have sexual relations with that person.
I can grow old with a female friend, live with a female friend, raise a child with a female friend and love my female friend. I can do all that without having sexual relations with that person.

You dont need to have sex with someone to love them or to raise a child with them or to live under the same roof.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Odd but you're not the first theist to claim they think it a "beautiful" idea, that a deity cares more about the free will of murderers and rapists, than about their victims suffering. So sits on its hands while children are raped and says yeah go ahead I won't stop you, but I will punish you later.

They never seem to realise just how monstrously barbaric a deity they've imagined.

If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn’t say those things. It just shows your ignorance about what religion is all about.

What you are referring to is not what religion teaches but people acting contrary to what religion teaches.

Religion teaches love, unity, not to harm or hurt and to be kind and generous. No person faithful to his/her religion will deliberately harm or hurt someone. So the acts you refer to are against what all the religions teach.

 

[Bree]

So then when someone does things secretly, like stealing and adultery, would you say they also know these actions are wrong (or evil)?

absolutely.

 

[Bree]

So then are you saying you make your own rules?

not at all.

I accept the rules of the creator. He created us and gave us a framework to live within. When we step outside of that framework, we are sinning or falling below his standard.

All types of actions can be outside of Gods framework for mankind. Adultery, fornication, bestiality, murder, drunkeness, being verbally abusive, not looking after your children, stealing, killing animals for fun...

Knowing the rules that God has set requires knowledge of his laws and acceptance of them.

 

[Bree]

Who's stopped anyone expressing homophobic opinions?

there is the problem right there.

Its the use of the word 'homophobic'

I dont think anyone is scared of homosexuals. No one has a fear of homosexual people. To label everyone who has the opinion that same gender sex is not good as 'homophobic' is not really accurate. Its just a bullying tactic designed to shut people up.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And here I thought Krishna told Arjuna to go ahead and fight in a war. And in the Bible God led his people into battle. And even in the Baha'i Faith, if one nation goes against the rulings of the world tribunal, all the other nations are to rise up and put down the rebellion. That sounds like forcing that nation into compliance to me.

And when it comes to homosexuality, I think he told his people in the Bible and Quran to kill homosexuals. So, how is it that you don't think God never tried to force people to obey? Or... is it still considered "voluntary" if someone stops their homosexual behavior because there is a law that condemns them to death if they don't.

So, do the Baha'is believe that homosexuality is evil? It seems like they do. Are there sanctions put on gay Baha'is when they get too openly gay? Or homosexuality isn't evil and it's okay for those Baha'is to openly live a gay lifestyle?

The war in the Bhagavad-Gita is essentially a war with our inner self and many understand this that we can only conquer and be victorious over our lower self by obedience to the Manifestation of God, in this example Lord Krishna.

In the Bible there are many stories such as the flood where people were all killed but we Baha’is are told there was never a flood and that the story of Noah is of profound spiritual significance where those who failed to enter the Ark of the Covenant were drowned in their worldly desires, suffering spiritual death. The same can be said of any base desire which can destroy us spiritually.

And if you look closely at the Baha’i system you will find it is all about promoting spiritual values and the higher self over the lower self. But being a Baha’i is voluntary. Every person voluntarily joins the Faith and is free anytime to leave if they desire things we cannot provide such as same sex marriage and things like gay parties or binge drinking parties. We are after all a religion, not a club, that seeks to promote virtuous conduct and those who do not agree with Baha’i laws should definitely not become. Baha’is.

Anyone who disagrees with the laws and teachings of Baha’u’llah should never even think of joining and if not happy then leave because no one is forced to become a Baha’i.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And here I thought Krishna told Arjuna to go ahead and fight in a war. And in the Bible God led his people into battle. And even in the Baha'i Faith, if one nation goes against the rulings of the world tribunal, all the other nations are to rise up and put down the rebellion. That sounds like forcing that nation into compliance to me.

And when it comes to homosexuality, I think he told his people in the Bible and Quran to kill homosexuals. So, how is it that you don't think God never tried to force people to obey? Or... is it still considered "voluntary" if someone stops their homosexual behavior because there is a law that condemns them to death if they don't.

So, do the Baha'is believe that homosexuality is evil? It seems like they do. Are there sanctions put on gay Baha'is when they get too openly gay? Or homosexuality isn't evil and it's okay for those Baha'is to openly live a gay lifestyle?

About collective security. That is not about force but justice. Are we to allow the oppressor, tyrant and dictator to kill the innocent? It is about protecting the rights of people to live in freedom. Justice cannot allow the innocent to be victimised and killed. Justice against a bloodthirsty war criminal is upholding and defending peoples rights.

 

[ppp]

but homosexuality is not about that.

Its about sex.

Try to finish one topic before skittering off to another.You asked why you cannot have a dissenting opinion. Do you understand that your question was twaddle? The answer was that no one is stopping you.

 

[ppp]

there is the problem right there.

Its the use of the word 'homophobic'

Then it's your problem. Pretending that the word has a different meaning won't make your problems go away.

 

[ppp]

If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn’t say those things. It just shows your ignorance about what religion is all about.

If he was wrong then you would have a better response than a set of platitudes.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Here's the story of a gay Baha'i that was pushed out of the faith. "Meet A Baha’i

Homosexuals have been pushing the agenda for some time now. If you dont support them, then you are automatically labeled 'homophobic'

I wouldnt take it personally and I dont think what you stated was at all homophobic. You just didnt offer the support they need to feel justified in their actions. They are looking for support because their conscience bothers them as it does for any error we pursue.

Romans 2:14, 15 we read: “For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.”
https://religionunplugged.com/news/...vist-pushing-for-lgbtq-tolerance-in-his-faith

 

[Bree]

Try to finish one topic before skittering off to another.You asked why you cannot have a dissenting opinion. Do you understand that your question was twaddle? The answer was that no one is stopping you.

You stated that a person who disagrees with homosexuality is actually against ...

" living their life with the partner of their choice, making a life, raising a family and growing old together."

I think you are completely delusional if you thank anyone has a problem with that. You know perfectly well that homosexuality is not about that and no one would be against it.

So i'll state it again, homosexuality is not about being in a minority group that wants to live their life with the partner of their choice, making a life, raising a family and growing old together...... its about sex.