Homosexuality and religious.

[Trailblazer]

But Bahai is supposed to be different, and moral, and modern. And it is in many ways. But believers are too committed to dare condemn the condemnation of gays. It's a serious flaw in how they relate to their religion.

We do speak out against the condemnation of gays but we do not speak out against the Law.

 

[ppp]

We do speak out against the condemnation of gays

Not in any way that matters to real non straight people in the real world. Only ways that matter to your fellow Baha'i

 

[Truthseeker]

For your religion if a Bahai follower reinterprets God's love to include active homosexual, is that person a Bahai follower?

We already in our Baha'i teachings have that God loves active homoexuals. We have a different idea of religion, but that's okay.

 

[F1fan]

We do speak out against the condemnation of gays but we do not speak out against the Law.

Law? What law? There are no laws against being gay. Not in the USA anyway.

 

[Truthseeker]

It contains homophobic passages.

You don't think that calling it an evil passion, shameful aberration, handicap, against nature, to be purged from the world, etc is "irrational aversion or discrimination"? Or "a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality"? Homophobia - Wikipedia

We don't have a range of negative attiftudes towards homsexuality, nor irrational aversion or discrimation as I just said.

 

[Truthseeker]

Why, when proselytizing has a specific definition, and atheists don't meet that definition as they dispute religious beliefs, then it indicates an intolerance on your part. You are misrepresenting what atheists are, and doing, and this is due to your religious beliefs, not clear thinking.

Why this perception on your part that we are not clear thinking and intolerant? I like plenty of atheists, but when they try to destroy out belief in God, that in my view is proselytization, trying to make us atheists like you.

 

[Truthseeker]

Law? What law? There are no laws against being gay. Not in the USA anyway.

She is talking about laws like it is legal for gays to marry each other, I do believe.

 

[Truthseeker]

I've asked about this in the past and staff have confirmed that preaching atheism is also against the rules and subject to moderation. Please report the posts that you perceive as preaching.

Should have asked the staff about this myself. Thanks for the information.

 

[Trailblazer]

Law? What law? There are no laws against being gay. Not in the USA anyway.

I was referring to the Baha'i Law.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Of course it "behoveth" us all, but in reality, who follows or even knows what every rule is? And other people that break some of the other sexual prohibitions are able to keep their behaviors secret. Because they go out of their way to keep them secret. Some guy isn't going to go to a Baha'i Feast with a hooker and say, "Hi, this is a hooker friend of mine that I visit when my wife is out of town." But a gay man might want to say, "Hi everybody, this is my boyfriend."

I would suggest if one wants to be a Baha'i, they would find out about what God has made law in this age, then choose if they are able to implement them into their lifestyle.

A key here is, that our willingness to make changes to practice that law, also reflects our spiritual acceptance.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

Should have asked the staff about this myself. Thanks for the information.

Please do. I would welcome this discussion.

 

[ppp]

I was referring to the Baha'i Law.

Baha'i law is an abomination.

 

[Truthseeker]

The evidence is to the contrary. Where homosexuality is tolerated, homosexuals are as happy (or as unhappy) as heterosexuals. Where homosexuals are spiritually harmed is when in the presence of homophobes.

I am not talking about temporal happiness, but spiritual happiness that lasts. Yes, it is true that homosexuals are hurt by homophobes.

 

[Truthseeker]

Not to the believers. But as you have seen, they are considered that to the rest. You can choose to fight that or to recognize it and realize that how others understand those words is beyond your control.

Yes, it is definitely out my control. You see it your way, and I see it my way.

But your definition of homophobic isn't theirs. Yours is based in the presence or absence of overt hatred in the adherent. Theirs is based in the words in the scripture, and what they teach people who believe that they come from a good god.

The words of the scripture creates the lack hatred and h

You made the comment, "the main reason for prohibition of homosexual sex is that it spirituality harmful to those engaged in this practice." That's not critical thinking if it isn't a sound conclusion based in evidence properly understood. All beliefs are either sound conclusions justified by the standards of critical analysis, or they are not.

It was critical thinking that was used in determining whether Baha'u'llah was Prophet of God or not. After that is determined how could I oppose what God says?

A religious education will draw one away from it. Religion depends on belief by faith. It gives lip service to reason, but wherever reason and doctrine come into conflict, faith prevails, as we have seen in this thread, where many Baha'i have expressed the unreasonableness of homophobia, but still accept homophobic doctrine however unreasonable. It's just how religion works, and one might consider that critical thinking, but it's not.

Reason is used to determine the validity of a claim whether a person is a Prophet or not. Reason is also to understand what the scriptures of that religion says.

I'm starting to sense a strain of nonconfrontation in Baha'i that goes beyond humility or politeness to meekness, which despite claims to the contrary, is neither a blessing nor a virtue. One can become too passive such that he fails to take moral stands that he ought to just to avoid disagreement, which he seems to find painful. I worry about this when I read people writing about tamping down their egos, as if an ego were the enemy.

Wow, is all I can say! Baha'i says it is best to find points of agreement, and find unity in diversity. Do you prefer warfare and disunity? There is a wide chasm in our thinking, like the Grand Canyon.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

We already in our Baha'i teachings have that God loves active homoexuals. We have a different idea of religion, but that's okay.

What does that mean? Active homosexuality is not wrong and all that?

 

[Truthseeker]

They demonstrably are. They fit definitions of homophobia, and if it wasn't for religious privilege, may well fall foul of laws against hate speech. They certainly encourage illegal activity in many countries (conversion therapy).

There is no hate speech as has been demonstrated here. I agree that conversion therapy is harmful. We don't engage in that. Why would our religion encourage converston therapy in non-Baha'is since non-Baha'is don't believe in our religion anyway?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That's true and they can even adopt children if they want children.
But let's face it, God designed man and woman to have sex together so they could produce children.
How are so many people missing the obvious?

That is not obvious. That is your opinion.
You haven't answered about my other posts.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I like to consider that I am connected to all humanity in ways I am not fully aware of.

I see we are born of and connected to the same human spirit, which sustains the entire body of humanity.

I see all my thoughts and actions, no matter what, have an influence on the whole.

I see how humanity is sustained, is reflected in how the the human body is sustained. Imagine humanity as the cells of a body and what happens when of one of those cells becomes defective, and then if many cells become cancerous.

Regards Tony

Yeah, that is your opinion. I have another and we are not a we in your sense.

 

[Truthseeker]

I acknowledge your right to hold those beliefs, but I am utterly opposed to them.
Do you have tolerance for the beliefs of White Supremacists? What about ISIS?

Our beliefs harm no one.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Our beliefs harm no one.

There has already been given an example backed by science to that effect in this thread.