Homosexuality and religious.

[Spirit of Light]

When a religion teaches that homosexuality is "evil, immoral, aberration that needs purging from the world", yes, I get angry.
I hate that there is still such bigotry and intolerance in the world.
And I hate that people try to defend it.

But you are not a believer, you don't have to follow any law given to you by a God you don't believe in.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Once again, you misunderstand.
@loverofhumanity claimed "To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely against the spirit of Bahá'í Teachings."
Bahai teachings call homosexuality "evil, immoral, aberration that needs purging from the world", so they were clearly and demonstrably wrong.

There are no wrongs out there. A wrong as you use it, is a result of a process in your brain. You can point to (demonstrate) e.g. a stone by pointing to a stone. But just as with God, you can't point to wrong and thus demonstrate it and thus it has no evidence as per independent of a brain.
I accept that wrong works that way for you. I just do it differently.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Is a person hateful for opposing adultery, divorce, rape, abuse, polygamous, pedophilia ??

Adultry, divorce, polygamy depend on the culture of a person. It is not always considered bad. Divorce is so common around the world more so in West. Is it necessarily bad. I am told, don't know for sure, Eskimos has no problem about offering their women to guests. It was considered a part of hospitality. Many cultures had/have no problem with polygamy, if the person can support his wives.

 

[KWED]

Dont worry, i knew this thread would be walking in to a minefield and i was right

But it is one that you laid for yourself.
You didn't need to start a thread in order to defend homophobia in Bahaism.

 

[Spirit of Light]

But it is one that you laid for yourself.
You didn't need to start a thread in order to defend homophobia in Bahaism.

I did not start a thread about homophobia, I started a thread because of something you told mecyester day in a different debate.

I think you have religious phobia

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But it is one that you laid for yourself.
You didn't need to start a thread in order to defend homophobia in Bahaism.

Well, that is the problem with social and moral constructs. Some people treat them as real in the same sense as say gravity. But that is not limited to religion.

 

[KWED]

Baha`i is a personal belief i hold, my belief is not to tell you what you can or can not do.

But Bahism tells people how to live and how to think.
Bahais are obliged to accept whatever Bahaullah said was god's word without any doubt - even if it seems nonsensical. So it is not a "personal belief", it is an imposed ideology.

I am non political too so no i dont vote

Hitchens wept! It was an analogy

 

[Spirit of Light]

But Bahism tells people how to live and how to think.
Bahais are obliged to accept whatever Bahaullah said was god's word without any doubt - even if it seems nonsensical. So it is not a "personal belief", it is an imposed ideology.

Hitchens wept! It was an analogy

Baha'i teaching tell the followers how to understand and practicing the teaching, it does not tell other non Baha'i how to behave

 

[loverofhumanity]

When a religion teaches that homosexuality is "evil, immoral, aberration that needs purging from the world", yes, I get angry.
I hate that there is still such bigotry and intolerance in the world.
And I hate that people try to defend it.

This is one quote of Baha’u’llah that I think you’ve quoted. He is referring to numerous immoral acts.

Ye are forbidden to commit adultery, sodomy and lechery. Avoid them, O concourse of the faithful. By the righteousness of God! Ye have been called into being to purge the world from the defilement of evil passions.

The other quote also mentions adultery from Shoghi Effendi.

Bahá'u'lláh has spoken very strongly against this shameful sexual aberration, as He has against adultery and immoral conduct in general. We must try and help the soul to overcome them. (25 October 1949) [3]

 

[KWED]

Why does a person have to be 'hateful' to disbelieve in LGBTQ ?

It's not about "disbelieving in homosexuality" (nonsensical claim, it exists). It is about intolerance and prejudice towards homosexuality.

Is a person hateful for opposing adultery, divorce, rape, abuse, polygamous, pedophilia ??

So you think homosexuality is anti-social behaviour like rape and child abuse?
*smh*
What is wrong with some people here?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But Bahism tells people how to live and how to think.
Bahais are obliged to accept whatever Bahaullah said was god's word without any doubt - even if it seems nonsensical. So it is not a "personal belief", it is an imposed ideology.

Hitchens wept! It was an analogy

Just as the belief that reality is physical. Ideology is not limited to religion. It happens when someone considers a social fact a fact independent of brains.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.
Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness.

But loverofhumanity, I or KWED did not say that homosexuality is good or bad. it is what Bahaollah said and his words are the words of Allah. Where do my fault or KWED's faults come in?

 

[Truth in love]

I can understand why

I should be straightforward. Eliminate disambiguity

Phrasing as below eliminates doubts:
a) Others being gay is okay
b) Others being gay is not okay

I would suggest it is not that simple.


Thoughts, feelings and actions are not one and the same.

If I have a thought of murder, but don’t act on it I’m not a murderer. Being tempted by a given sin be it sex, killing or stealing a pack of gum is not the same as acting on it.

 

[KWED]

Because if i saw someone raping an other human being i could stop it, but i can not stop homosexuality

So if you could stop homosexuality, you would?
And no, you can't stop rapes either.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's not about "disbelieving in homosexuality" (nonsensical claim, it exists). It is about intolerance and prejudice towards homosexuality.

So you think homosexuality is anti-social behaviour like rape and child abuse?
*smh*
What is wrong with some people here?

What is your evidence that other people have the property of being wrong?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But loverofhumanity, it is said that Bahaollah's words are the word of God, and he has said homosexuality is an abomination in the eye of Allah. Where do my faults come in?

Okay, I will try to answer with 2 different versions of God.
God is the source of morality and I can judge you using God.
God is the source of morality and I don't judge you using God. I leave that to God.

There are more versions of that and I personally use a 3rd one.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But Bahism tells people how to live and how to think.
Bahais are obliged to accept whatever Bahaullah said was god's word without any doubt - even if it seems nonsensical. So it is not a "personal belief", it is an imposed ideology.

Hitchens wept! It was an analogy

Its all voluntary. I believe in this Faith because I believe it comes from God. I arrived at that conclusion myself and I think for myself. No one tells me how to think. I chose and still choose Baha’u’llah because I love His teachings. Nothing imposed here and I’m a Baha’i 45 years and I’m very happy with it. Those who don’t like it don’t join it but let us have the freedom to believe just as we let you to have your beliefs. We don’t interrogate why you believe what you do so you should accord us the same courtesy.

After 45 years I consider myself the luckiest person in the world to be a Baha’i. So if you don’t like it just walk away because I’m very happy with it.

 

[KWED]

@Seeker of White Light has not said it ok to be homophobic as far as i am aware, what he says is he is neutral on the matter.

The original issue was with Bahaism's homophobic teachings, calling it "evil, immoral, sexual aberration that needs purging from the world".
I don't see how you cam claim that the teachings are the perfect word of god, and that you follow them to be a better person, etc, but also claim that you don't condone or agree with what those teachings actually say.

Of course some do, and some don't. Some aspects of their religion are more important than individual scriptures. I cannot agree with that but i respect their reasons

Often, that distinction seems to depend on the nature of the scripture. When it's about nice stuff, then scripture is brilliant and true, when it's violent or intolerant, suddenly we shouldn't pay attention to it or it doesn't mean what it says.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So if you could stop homosexuality, you would?
And no, you can't stop rapes either.

Again, is that what I said?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Its all voluntary. I believe in this Faith because I believe it comes from God. I arrived at that conclusion myself and I think for myself. No one tells me how to think. I chose and still choose Baha’u’llah because I love His teachings. Nothing imposed here and I’m a Baha’i 45 years and I’m very happy with it. Those who don’t like it don’t join it but let us have the freedom to believe just as we let you to have your beliefs. We don’t interrogate why you believe what you do so you should accord us the same courtesy.

After 45 years I consider myself the luckiest person in the world to be a Baha’i. So if you don’t like it just walk away because I’m very happy with it.

If you look closer, some non-believers claim they know that you are wrong. I have asked them many times, how they know that and so far they have never given evidence for that claim. So as a non-believer I am trying not to do as they do and hate people and claim they know if another is wrong.