Homosexuality - Choice or Not?

[madhatter85]

If you knew anything about animal behavior you'd know it doesn't go against nature. Homosexual pairings, some for life, have been observed in over 400 species. How, then, "unnatural"?

And before you go down the oft-traveled path of "it happening in nature doesn't make it moral!", that's not what I'm saying. I'm not addressing its morality at the moment, just whether it is natural.
An infertile heterosexual couple can't make new life, either. Are you against sexual acts involving infertile people, too?

We aren't talkign about Animals here, we are talkign about humans.

if youw ant to go down that road fine, Yes, there are homosexual acts in the animal kingdom, (male dogs humping other male dogs ect... which are acts of dominance) how does that pertain to Humans? even so, it's the dog's choice to hump the other dog.

I said in my OP. That it is not the infertile couple's choice to be that way, they didn't choose to not have kids.

i'm talkign about CHOICE vs NO CHOICE. that is all. get back on topic.

 

[madhatter85]

The prostate in males is inside the anus and, from what I've been told, feels very good when stimulated. The clitoris is above the vagina and normally isn't stimulated during penetration.

Would you like any more anatomy lessons?

from what you've been told. ever notice how a "feeling" is a matter of choice or opinion?

If it's not getting stimulated by your partner's pelvic region during intercourse he's not doing something right.

Again get back on topic choice vs no choice,

 

[Ðanisty]

I said in my OP. That it is not the infertile couple's choice to be that way, they didn't choose to not have kids.

i'm talkign about CHOICE vs NO CHOICE. that is all. get back on topic.

Okay how about couples who choose not to have children?

 

[Buttercup]

from what you've been told. ever notice how a "feeling" is a matter of choice or opinion?

Isn't your stance on homosexual sex an "opinion?"
Where do you derive your position on the poll above?

 

[SoyLeche]

Well, MH - You've wandered into a minefield that most of us have learned to stay away from on this forum. I hope you make it out alive and learn from your mistakes.

 

[Jaymes]

We aren't talkign about Animals here, we are talkign about humans.

Humans are animals. Go check their classification if you don't believe me... Kingdom: Animalia. :areyoucra

if youw ant to go down that road fine, Yes, there are homosexual acts in the animal kingdom, (male dogs humping other male dogs ect... which are acts of dominance) how does that pertain to Humans? even so, it's the dog's choice to hump the other dog.

Did you miss the part where I said I'm straight?

While some male mounting behavior may be of dominance, all of it is certainly not. Roy and Silo are probably the most famous gay animal couple. They've been together for about 6 years, IIRC, and have raised a chick from an egg that was given to them by the zookeepers because they kept trying to hatch rocks. They're very devoted to each other. It's not about dominance there.

I said in my OP. That it is not the infertile couple's choice to be that way, they didn't choose to not have kids.

What if it is that couple's choice? What if they've had a vasectomy or tied tubes? Even if it isn't, what does it matter? They still can't have kids, so by your logic they shouldn't be having sex, period.

i'm talkign about CHOICE vs NO CHOICE. that is all. get back on topic.

No, you're sidetracking onto whether it's natural and anatomy and a hundred other little rabbit trails. If you want to talk only about whether it's a choice, then only talk about that, but don't demand other people get back on topic when they reply to your supposedly off-topic replies.

 

[standing_alone]

Ooops! My mistake, Standing Alone! You are, of course, right. If we allow science to overcome our dearly held prejudices and irrational beliefs, where will it all end? The next thing you know, we will be forced by science to concede the world is not flat, like it seems to be. And then --- my god! -- then, we might even start to vote Democrat!

Dear God, I can think of nothing more sinister. If we allow science (I prefer to call it "the Devil's work") to persist and show us the error in our dearly-held prejudices and irrational beliefs, our very civilization as we know it will crumble to rubble (think Rome). This is why we must sabatoge science classes by including creationism in the curriculum! If we confuse our children as to what scientific standards really are, our archaic modes of belief can persist unchallenged!

 

[Sunstone]

Somehow I am beginning to suspect that I will not have an answer to my question of what science even remotely backs up the wildly speculative claim that sexual orientation is a choice. *is sad now*

 

[Aqualung]

No, you're sidetracking onto whether it's natural and anatomy and a hundred other little rabbit trails. If you want to talk only about whether it's a choice, then only talk about that, but don't demand other people get back on topic when they reply to your supposedly off-topic replies.

This is true

Because, look at physical anatomy, Women and Men are different in thier structure, they are designed by nature to do a certian function together(procreation). why would it be natural to go against nature?

look at human nature then, anatomy. do some research on that.... as my above post mentions

 

[madhatter85]

Humans are animals. Go check their classification if you don't believe me... Kingdom: Animalia. :areyoucra
Did you miss the part where I said I'm straight?

While some male mounting behavior may be of dominance, all of it is certainly not. Roy and Silo are probably the most famous gay animal couple. They've been together for about 6 years, IIRC, and have raised a chick from an egg that was given to them by the zookeepers because they kept trying to hatch rocks. They're very devoted to each other. It's not about dominance there.
What if it is that couple's choice? What if they've had a vasectomy or tied tubes? Even if it isn't, what does it matter? They still can't have kids, so by your logic they shouldn't be having sex, period.
No, you're sidetracking onto whether it's natural and anatomy and a hundred other little rabbit trails. If you want to talk only about whether it's a choice, then only talk about that, but don't demand other people get back on topic when they reply to your supposedly off-topic replies.

Still choices, Vastectomy,

????? i went and posted a poll, the name of the topic, and stated that at the beginning, and then i quoted why i started this thread and stated that i don't have a problem with gay people.

the Topic is Choice vs. no choice, but nobody has actually provided me with any viable answer as to how it is not a choice.

all i get is "but the animals do it" - go be a dog then...
But, bo boo booo...

Scientific research on why it's not a choice, sure put it up here,

cause nomatter what science says i'm right on this followign statement :

It's is always a choice to make any action. to follow through with an urge, it is always a choice. It's a choice to be Hetrosexual. It's always a choice. choices are made every day. Nobody twists your arm into being straight or gay.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Number 1, i don't have a man crush, thanks but nice try. i love my wife and i wouldn't trade the affection i get from her for anyone. even in thought.

Really? I thought that sexuality was a choice...........

Number 2 i was using those things as a comparasin of urges and choice. all urges depend on choice to be put into action, Nomatter what.

Yes it matters. It would be distasteful for me to compare pregnancy cravings with pedophilia and rape.

Number 3 The babies could very possibly come from single mothers, but the creation of that babie require and MAN+WOMAN to create, even in the case of artificial insemination, parts came from a MALE , and were placed into a FEMALE to create said baby.

Let's be specific then, it's SPERM+EGG. A man and woman can certainly be intimate in other ways than procreative means. Is this a proclamation that "marriage" is solely concerned with "procreation" ability?

Shoot........I guess my marriage will be a sham as soon as I hit menopause in a few years.

Number 4 Marriage has been around since the dawn of time. wiether you want to go the creation, or the evolution route. If Adam was gay, we wouldn't be here. If cavemen were gay, we wouldn't be here.

Are you really that sure that all cavemen were heterosexual? :flirt:




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Jaymes]

Still choices, Vastectomy,

You're still not addressing the point that infertile couples cannot have children. Why are they exempt from the "if you can't reproduce don't have sex" proclamation?

the Topic is Choice vs. no choice, but nobody has actually provided me with any viable answer as to how it is not a choice.

Check out the APA. Or any other psychiatric association worth their salt.

How about this: You provide me with evidence that heterosexuality--not heterosexual acts, but heterosexuality--is a choice.

all i get is "but the animals do it" - go be a dog then...
But, bo boo booo...

I suggest you improve your reading comprehension, as I didn't say "but the animals do it". Just because you have issues with accepting humans are classified as animals, it doesn't excuse telling someone to "go be a dog" because they think homosexuality isn't a choice.

cause nomatter what science says i'm right on this followign statement :

It's is always a choice to make any action. to follow through with an urge, it is always a choice. It's a choice to be Hetrosexual. It's always a choice. choices are made every day. Nobody twists your arm into being straight or gay.

Nobody is denying that acts are always a choice. You, however, are insisting that orientation is a choice, when all research has shown it's not. The failure of you to accept research is no fault of the research itself, but of your ability to coincide reality with your religious beliefs.

 

[Sunstone]

Dear God, I can think of nothing more sinister. If we allow science (I prefer to call it "the Devil's work") to persist and show us the error in our dearly-held prejudices and irrational beliefs, our very civilization as we know it will crumble to rubble (think Rome). This is why we must sabatoge science classes by including creationism in the curriculum! If we confuse our children as to what scientific standards really are, our archaic modes of belief can persist unchallenged!

Well said, Standing Alone! We must bar the school doors to science least kids start demanding BOTH reason AND evidence, rather than reason alone. Because you know that no civilization that routinely checks it's conclusions against reality is worthy of the name "civilization". Under no circumstances must we allow our kids to discover that science is based on checking reason against reality! If we did that, some of those kids might actually grow up to be realistic adults and then where will we be? Up to our necks in know-it-alls, that's where we'll be! And who wants to be surrounded by kids that know more than we do?

 

[jacquie4000]

Still choices, Vastectomy,


cause nomatter what science says i'm right on this followign statement :

It's is always a choice to make any action. to follow through with an urge, it is always a choice. It's a choice to be Hetrosexual. It's always a choice. choices are made every day. Nobody twists your arm into being straight or gay.

I have a girlfriend who has so much male testosterone she can not have children.
She is also homosexual. Ever since she was a young child she thought she should have been a man. I truely do not feel it was a choice.

 

[Sunstone]

Somehow I am beginning to suspect that I will not have an answer to my question of what science even remotely backs up the wildly speculative claim that sexual orientation is a choice. *is sad now*

*notices that still there is no answer to his question*
*begins to get even sadder*

 

[MysticSang'ha]

*notices that still there is no answer to his question*
*begins to get even sadder*

You need a Big Squishy Hug!

:rainbow1:




Peace,
Mystic

 

[madhatter85]

*notices that still there is no answer to his question*
*begins to get even sadder*

show me some concrete evidence that says Homosexuality is not a choice.

 

[standing_alone]

Well said, Standing Alone! We must bar the school doors to science least kids start demanding BOTH reason AND evidence, rather than reason alone. Because you know that no civilization that routinely checks it's conclusions against reality is worthy of the name "civilization". Under no circumstances must we allow our kids to discover that science is based on checking reason against reality! If we did that, some of those kids might actually grow up to be realistic adults and then where will we be? Up to our necks in know-it-alls, that's where we'll be! And who wants to be surrounded by kids that know more than we do?

Certainly not I, Sunstone! Certainly not I! Now I must be going; I've got a school board in the Midwest to address! Viva la Creation!

 

[doppelganger]

Is the perception that something is a choice, itself a choice, or not?

 

[madhatter85]

You're still not addressing the point that infertile couples cannot have children. Why are they exempt from the "if you can't reproduce don't have sex" proclamation?
Check out the APA. Or any other psychiatric association worth their salt.

How about this: You provide me with evidence that heterosexuality--not heterosexual acts, but heterosexuality--is a choice.
I suggest you improve your reading comprehension, as I didn't say "but the animals do it". Just because you have issues with accepting humans are classified as animals, it doesn't excuse telling someone to "go be a dog" because they think homosexuality isn't a choice.
Nobody is denying that acts are always a choice. You, however, are insisting that orientation is a choice, when all research has shown it's not. The failure of you to accept research is no fault of the research itself, but of your ability to coincide reality with your religious beliefs.

I just stated it's all a choice, read my post at the end of page 3.

Show me the research and we will talk.