Don't you know, Jaymes, that all science is actually faith and all scientific consensus is actually dogma. Sheesh! I thought they taught you college kids that these days.
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Homosexuality - Choice or Not?
- Thread starter madhatter85
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Don't you know, Jaymes, that all science is actually faith and all scientific consensus is actually dogma. Sheesh! I thought they taught you college kids that these days.
IF I choose today by calling the International Homosexual Hot Line right now while operators are on duty, do I get a nifty set of steak knives for becoming a homosexual?
madhatter85
Transhumanist
nobody has posted any evidence, and i even stated in an earlier post i would read whatever is brought to me. and i will
unfortunately every singe one of you knows i'm right and won't ever be able to deny the fact that everything is a choice. you have a choice in all things. just because someone feels bad and wants to justify thier actions by saying "god made me this way" instead of accepting the plain and simple fact that Is is and always has been thier choice, I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?
Bishka
Veteran Member
Do you know anyone that is GBLT? I mean personally, in you family? You have no room to speak unless you are or have someone close and have gone through their anguish with them.
I don't have a concrete opinion on this, but to just brush to the side like you do is disgusting.
jacquie4000
Well-Known Member
I don't think they would want you to feel sorry for them. However since you said you have no problem with them as you put it. Maybe you could respect them as people.
standing_alone
Well-Known Member
Well, Sunstone, as your profile indicates you are male, you'd be getting a fine china tea set (the steak knives are for female converts to homosexuality).
Excuse my ignorance but I always thought there was no concrete evidence that homosexuality is indeed genetic?
I know there have been studies on it but nothing I've read has anything conclusive. Somebody help me out here?
The evidence is pretty conclusive that it's not a choice, but the jury is still out on precisely what causes it. Lately, a good number of researchers seem to be leaning towards the notion that it's caused by hormonal events in the womb during fetal development.
Jaymes
The cake is a lie
There is, indeed, no evidence that homosexuality is genetic.Excuse my ignorance but I always thought there was no concrete evidence that homosexuality is indeed genetic?
I know there have been studies on it but nothing I've read has anything conclusive. Somebody help me out here?
However the OP was asking for evidence that homosexuality wasn't a choice. Psychological associations agree that you can't control who you're attracted to. If you're attracted to men/women/both/neither, you're attracted to that, and that's that. (My, I used the word 'that' a lot there!)
It's a bit like saying I make a choice to be dislike to spicy food. I never made a conscious choice to hate spicy food, and if I wanted to I could eat spicy food every day and be utterly miserable because I hate it, but that doesn't change that I don't like it.
I am still waiting for you to show me where one person in this thread have said that actions are not a choice.madhatter85 said:
If you want to argue that I can choose to like spicy food when I hate it, go argue with the APA or something, because you clearly don't want to do anything other than go on about how you're right and we're all wrong, despite psychological research backing us up.
Quiddity
UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Simon Levay (biological scientist) says,
Although there are significant differences between the attitudes of lesbians and gay men it is clear that both groups are far more inclined to consider their sexual orientation a biological given than is the general population....Should we take these assertions seriously? Not entirely, of course. No one even remembers being born, let alone being born gay or straight. When a gay man, for example, says he was born gay he generally means that he felt different from other boys at the earliest age he can remember. Sometimes the difference involved sexual feelings, but more commonly it involved some kind of gender nonconformist or sex atypical traits-disliking rough and tumble play for example, that were not explicitly sexual. These differences, which have been verified in a number of ways suggest that sexual orientation is influenced by factors operating very early in life, but these factors could still consist of environmental factors such as parental treatment in the early postnatal period.
LeVay, Queer Science, 6.
You got so many varying opinions on this that when it comes down to the scientific method, there isn't anything conclusive. I know the APA has quite a few articles on it, but also speaks of it from more of a psychological perspective.
Although there are significant differences between the attitudes of lesbians and gay men it is clear that both groups are far more inclined to consider their sexual orientation a biological given than is the general population....Should we take these assertions seriously? Not entirely, of course. No one even remembers being born, let alone being born gay or straight. When a gay man, for example, says he was born gay he generally means that he felt different from other boys at the earliest age he can remember. Sometimes the difference involved sexual feelings, but more commonly it involved some kind of gender nonconformist or sex atypical traits-disliking rough and tumble play for example, that were not explicitly sexual. These differences, which have been verified in a number of ways suggest that sexual orientation is influenced by factors operating very early in life, but these factors could still consist of environmental factors such as parental treatment in the early postnatal period.
LeVay, Queer Science, 6.
You got so many varying opinions on this that when it comes down to the scientific method, there isn't anything conclusive. I know the APA has quite a few articles on it, but also speaks of it from more of a psychological perspective.
lizskid
BANNED
No, but didn't you know we get a toaster oven for turning you???
I think I'll go ahead try out this whole gay thing tomorrow after lunch.
Seriously though MH, how do you "choose" who you're attracted to? It's hardwired into your system to be attracted to something. With your reasoning, everything is a choice: Avoiding a food that you find absolutely repulsive, having an attraction for your wife, etc.
Why don't people eat foods that makes them physically repulsive? Why didn't you marry someone who your were not attracted to?
Quiddity
UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Gotcha! That's what I understood as well.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
i know a few gay people and they know that it is thier choice to be how they are. why would there be anguish if it was normal? why so much drama?
It's thier choice to be who they want to be and the gay peopel i know, know it and accept it. one of them was my old boss when i worked at Lowes.
Quiddity
UndertheInfluenceofGiants
I like APA, but I have my reservations about them as well. Personally, I wouldn't rely to heavily on what they say regarding "change". What if APA concluded you can change? Would it make a difference to you? I usually find the answer is "no". So what does it matter if it's genetic or a choice? Either way, it's something deep seated.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
I think I'll go ahead try out this whole gay thing tomorrow after lunch.
Seriously though MH, how do you "choose" who you're attracted to? It's hardwired into your system to be attracted to something. With your reasoning, everything is a choice: Avoiding a food that you find absolutely repulsive, having an attraction for your wife, etc.
Why don't people eat foods that makes them physically repulsive? Why didn't you marry someone who your were not attracted to?
Cause it was my choice?
And if your church and society condemned you for your choices and told you that you were wrong, then what?
Aqualung
Tasty
Homosexuality is a choice because it's an action. Actions are always choices. Therefore, homosexuality is a choice. That's kind of circular. Those who would say that homosexuality isn't a choice would say that it's more than just an action - it's an orientation integral to their self. Like how oranges "choose" to be orange but grass "chooses" to be green.
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