Homosexuality in the Bible

[sojourner]

Those things always make me cry.

Yeah, but the minister is always some quack...

 

[sojourner]

And his bill is usually high...

 

[roli]

[

quote=Pah]Every see a marriage ceremony for a duck?

I don't have the time, inclination nor the interest in such ,"orientation" as you amy have ,but hey! whatever makes you happy,

Please tell us when you chose to be, if you are, straight? Before you get upset, please remember there are a number of orientations. When did you decide, assuming you are male, to be sexually attracted to a female?

I did'nt choose to be male nor straight ,but God's intended design for me was to be as I am, "Male" when I came into this world,with the physical external and internal features to confirm that sex.
There are hundreds of sexual orientations we may practice, it's not about how many you can practice or invent,that is only according to our carnal indulgent nature,but it's always how far we can push the envelope and bend and twist the natural intention God designed us fo.
When I came from my mother and realized at an an age I had the organs and features of a man,came to accept the fact I was man,an never thought twice about it.
But, now a days people curbed in their thinking by influence,media,peer pressure,the freedom to express regardless of the unnatural practice it is.

Are you saying beastiality,incest,and all that will follow that indulgent lifestyle is and should be accepted as well,that's what I say,because it is part of the whole sexual orientation you know, you can't pick and choose,because that day is coming,and many are'nt anticipating but are nevertheless inviting in with open arms.

As for the "abuse" of free will, most will say that any exerciase of free will that excludes God is an abuse. It is considered by many to be a polar decision.

God does not create behaviors or you must think that God created evil. But I'm not talking about behaviors yet. I'm talking about innate characteristics. Don't confuse the two.

Evil is only present where good is not,is there such a thing as darkness or just an absence of light,
Innate chracteristics are what I am talking about and are truely perverse apart from God's nature

Now God's word tells us that when the innate characteristic of passion is uncontrolable that would keep you from being a "spiritual eunich", you MUST marry. This is a directed behavior from God triggered from the God created orientation.

Then someone should never procreate because the penis is made for urination? I can think of three purposes, pleasure, procreation and evacuation of the bladder. Geez, God gave males a multii-purpose organ. There is no question that the genitals were made for pleasure and the mechanism for receiving pleasure is nerve cells that process stimulation to pass the pleasure message to the brain. All over the body there are places where the specialized nerve cells are clusted for the more intense pleasure.

Ya, so it has 3 purpose intended by God, is the seed of man intended to fertilize inside another man,come on Pah,what's the intention of your arguement ,the seed must enter the women to produce.Is this really debatable by such a scholar as yourself
On the ground,in a man,in your ear,or eye ,is not going to fulfill it's purpose.
So what are you saying, it does'nt matter how those genitals receive pleasure
A multi purpose organ yes, but they are natural purposes for that organ,Geez!! but only in the confines of marriage according to God .
But man will come and push the envelope just a little see how far we can pervert nature and than blame God for AIDS, and all other infectious diseases, teen pragnancy,abortions etc

Even the hand is a multi-purpose appendige. It grasps, it soothes, it determines temperature. So which of these is the only use of the hand for you? This facet of your total argument is reductum ad absurdum

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter
Your talking about mechanics I am talking morals right wrong in the eyes of God.
Yes the hand is a multi purpose appendige and excellent observation I must admit
use for an oven mit and you will get the just of what I am saying here.
Buy a car and keep it in your garage load it down with tools and or turn it into a beer cooler,how much sense is that,besides an insult to the designer,manufacturer.
What's it's purpose, use it within the confines of it's intended design
Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

I have no idea what you are reallying saying. Sin is never an answer for me, personally

Read it in context ,and you may very well understand it
this was my concluding comment Pah in my last thread"
"the question is what caused us to forsake the natural purpose".
Sin, would be the number one answer
We don't practice it, we pervert it
To clarify even more for you,sin would be the number 1 answer for forsaking the natural purpose and we don't practice the natural practice we pervert it

 

[roli]

[

quote=Pah]Every see a marriage ceremony for a duck?

I don't have the time, inclination nor the interest in such ,"orientation" as you amy have ,but hey! whatever makes you happy,

Please tell us when you chose to be, if you are, straight? Before you get upset, please remember there are a number of orientations. When did you decide, assuming you are male, to be sexually attracted to a female?

I did'nt choose to be male nor straight ,but God's intended design for me was to be as I am, "Male" when I came into this world,with the physical external and internal features to confirm that sex.
There are hundreds of sexual orientations we may practice, it's not about how many you can practice or invent,that is only according to our carnal indulgent nature,but it's always how far we can push the envelope and bend and twist the natural intention God designed us fo.
When I came from my mother and realized at an an age I had the organs and features of a man,came to accept the fact I was man,an never thought twice about it.
But, now a days people curbed in their thinking by influence,media,peer pressure,the freedom to express regardless of the unnatural practice it is.

Are you saying beastiality,incest,and all that will follow that indulgent lifestyle is and should be accepted as well,that's what I say,because it is part of the whole sexual orientation you know, you can't pick and choose,because that day is coming,and many are'nt anticipating but are nevertheless inviting in with open arms.

As for the "abuse" of free will, most will say that any exerciase of free will that excludes God is an abuse. It is considered by many to be a polar decision.

God does not create behaviors or you must think that God created evil. But I'm not talking about behaviors yet. I'm talking about innate characteristics. Don't confuse the two.

Evil is only present where good is not,is there such a thing as darkness or just an absence of light,
Innate chracteristics are what I am talking about and are truely perverse apart from God's nature

Now God's word tells us that when the innate characteristic of passion is uncontrolable that would keep you from being a "spiritual eunich", you MUST marry. This is a directed behavior from God triggered from the God created orientation.

Then someone should never procreate because the penis is made for urination? I can think of three purposes, pleasure, procreation and evacuation of the bladder. Geez, God gave males a multii-purpose organ. There is no question that the genitals were made for pleasure and the mechanism for receiving pleasure is nerve cells that process stimulation to pass the pleasure message to the brain. All over the body there are places where the specialized nerve cells are clusted for the more intense pleasure.

Ya, so it has 3 purpose intended by God, is the seed of man intended to fertilize inside another man,come on Pah,what's the intention of your arguement ,the seed must enter the women to produce.Is this really debatable by such a scholar as yourself
On the ground,in a man,in your ear,or eye ,is not going to fulfill it's purpose.
So what are you saying, it does'nt matter how those genitals receive pleasure
A multi purpose organ yes, but they are natural purposes for that organ,Geez!! but only in the confines of marriage according to God .
But man will come and push the envelope just a little see how far we can pervert nature and than blame God for AIDS, and all other infectious diseases, teen pragnancy,abortions etc

Even the hand is a multi-purpose appendige. It grasps, it soothes, it determines temperature. So which of these is the only use of the hand for you? This facet of your total argument is reductum ad absurdum

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter
Your talking about mechanics I am talking morals right wrong in the eyes of God.
Yes the hand is a multi purpose appendige and excellent observation I must admit
use for an oven mit and you will get the just of what I am saying here.
Buy a car and keep it in your garage load it down with tools and or turn it into a beer cooler,how much sense is that,besides an insult to the designer,manufacturer.
What's it's purpose, use it within the confines of it's intended design
Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

I have no idea what you are reallying saying. Sin is never an answer for me, personally

Read it in context ,and you may very well understand it
this was my concluding comment Pah in my last thread"
"the question is what caused us to forsake the natural purpose".
Sin, would be the number one answer
We don't practice it, we pervert it
To clarify even more for you,sin would be the number 1 answer for forsaking the natural purpose and we don't practice the natural practice we pervert it

 

[roli]

Sorry about that double clicking,but there are problems with the connection, I presume

 

[Pah]

Sorry about that double clicking,but there are problems with the connection, I presume

Yes. and I was going to say that I deleted the duplicate in my next post. But since you mentioned it, I'll tell you here. No problem - the real problem is woith RF and I belive it is fixed by now.

 

[Pah]

I don't have the time, inclination nor the interest in such ,"orientation" as you amy have ,but hey! whatever makes you happy,

Wheteher you have the time or an inclination or an ignorance of it, you have an orientation. It is "whatever turns you on" and if you're not turned on by anytrhing you have an asexual orientation. It's definitional in the make-up of all living animals. You can't escape it.

I did'nt choose to be male nor straight ,but God's intended design for me was to be as I am, "Male" when I came into this world,with the physical external and internal features to confirm that sex.

That would be sexual identity and has nothing to do with orientation.

There are hundreds of sexual orientations we may practice, it's not about how many you can practice or invent,that is only according to our carnal indulgent nature,but it's always how far we can push the envelope and bend and twist the natural intention God designed us fo.

You can not provide specific, delininatory, biblical evidence that God created only one SEXUAL ORIENTATION However there is evidence from every same-sex oriented animal that God created at least two orientations. There is evidence from science, both medical and biological there is MIXED[/B[ morphology both internal and external.

When I came from my mother and realized at an an age I had the organs and features of a man,came to accept the fact I was man,an never thought twice about it.

:sigh: Sexual IDENTITY again!
But, now a days people curbed in their thinking by influence,media,peer pressure,the freedom to express regardless of the unnatural practice it is.You are saying it is choice and choice is NOT an option

Are you saying beastiality,incest,and all that will follow that indulgent lifestyle is and should be accepted as well,that's what I say,because it is part of the whole sexual orientation you know, you can't pick and choose,because that day is coming,and many are'nt anticipating but are nevertheless inviting in with open arms.

I haven't said that. I'n saying it has always been present. Even the bible documents incest (remember Lot?). Original procreatation was incesterial. The orientations that are considered perverse are dealt with by civil law. Law does not consider same-sex orientation criminal.

Evil is only present where good is not,is there such a thing as darkness or just an absence of light,
Innate chracteristics are what I am talking about and are truely perverse apart from God's nature

What an internally contradictory sentence!

Ya, so it has 3 purpose intended by God, is the seed of man intended to fertilize inside another man,come on Pah,what's the intention of your arguement ,the seed must enter the women to produce.Is this really debatable by such a scholar as yourself
On the ground,in a man,in your ear,or eye ,is not going to fulfill it's purpose.

What of the castrated man or the barren women? They still urninate and they still have pleasure Sperm is NOT the end-all of sex

So what are you saying, it does'nt matter how those genitals receive pleasure

Nope, I'm saying, as I said previously in this post, if it is lawful - civil law lawfulthe it is acceptable. But God also has written words that give acceptence to pleasureable passion.

A multi purpose organ yes, but they are natural purposes for that organ,Geez!! but only in the confines of marriage according to God .

Only in the confines of marriage, eh? Wasn't it Tamar who outside of marriage acted as a whore with Judah. Now the purpose ot that act was procreation for Tamar and pleasure for Judah. And they WERE NOT MARRIED.

But man will come and push the envelope just a little see how far we can pervert nature and than blame God for AIDS, and all other infectious diseases, teen pragnancy,abortions etc

Nonsense.

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter

I'm afraid your darkness is my light

Your talking about mechanics I am talking morals right wrong in the eyes of God.

Yes the hand is a multi purpose appendige and excellent observation I must admit
use for an oven mit and you will get the just of what I am saying here.
Buy a car and keep it in your garage load it down with tools and or turn it into a beer cooler,how much sense is that,besides an insult to the designer,manufacturer.
What's it's purpose, use it within the confines of it's intended design
Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

Read it in context ,and you may very well understand it
this was my concluding comment Pah in my last thread"
"the question is what caused us to forsake the natural purpose".
Sin, would be the number one answer
We don't practice it, we pervert it
To clarify even more for you,sin would be the number 1 answer for forsaking the natural purpose and we don't practice the natural practice we pervert it

[/QUOTE]Sin does not belong in the Constitution nor in civil law. Sin is entirely a religious concept And pushing biblical sin on society is the vestige of theocracy

 

[angellous_evangellous]

You think that marriage in the Greco-Roman world was a passionless social contract? Paul approached it as both - we see passion in 1 Cor 7 and social contract in Ephesians 5. Perhaps even in Ephesians 5 we have a command for husbands to love their wives - it is not eros - but agape does not exclude passion.

Pah, did you know that we have love letters from husbands to wives in the Greco-Roman period? The "social contract" nature of marriage (which I do not deny) by no means dictates that it is passionless.

We also have - to use your example - historical accounts of princes and heads of state divorcing their wives and marrying other women for passion and romantic love rather than simple "social contracts" usually to the destruction of the state and their household.

Posts with far less to day have been given more attention that they deserve. :areyoucra

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I'm afraid your darkness is my light

Well said.

The testimony against homosexuality by Christianity is not the light of the Gospel, so homosexual Christians are able to participate freely in the light in every Christian denomenation that has the light of Christ's love.

 

[roli]

Well said.

The testimony against homosexuality by Christianity is not the light of the Gospel, so homosexual Christians are able to participate freely in the light in every Christian denomenation that has the light of Christ's love.

The testimony against homosexuality is not set by christians but Christ himself,He is not as liberal against sin as we in this liberal society tend to be.
Before you speak of light you must understand what the light of the gospel actually does,it exposes darkness,
2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Jesus came as the light to expose darkness,if homosexuality is not darkness you have'nt come into the light yourself simply put.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God
God detests homosexuality,theft ,murders,all sin, yet loves those who are living in sin and has paid the ransom for their souls,yet when we disregard His law and live as we see fit we abuse His mercy and grace
What exactly do you mean when you say Christians are able to participate freely?

Can I be a murderer and still be a Christian?
Can I fornicate,steal and lie and still presume to be a Christian.?
I guess in our own minds we can do and be what we want while disregarding any standards,laws and principals God !!!!!!

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 1:55 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[Pah]

The testimony against homosexuality is not set by christians but Christ himself,He is not as liberal against sin as we in this liberal society tend to be.
Before you speak of light you must understand what the light of the gospel actually does,it exposes darkness,
2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Jesus came as the light to expose darkness,if homosexuality is not darkness you have'nt come into the light yourself simply put.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God
God detests homosexuality,theft ,murders,all sin, yet loves those who are living in sin and has paid the ransom for their souls,yet when we disregard His law and live as we see fit we abuse His mercy and grace
What exactly do you mean when you say Christians are able to participate freely?

Can I be a murderer and still be a Christian?
Can I fornicate,steal and lie and still presume to be a Christian.?
I guess in our own minds we can do and be what we want while disregarding any standards,laws and principals God !!!!!!

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 1:55 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Contratry to what you think, it WAS Christians of the early church who set the agenda against all types of perversity. Documented here

The hare, for example, is said to grow a new anus each year [see Barnabas 10; Pliny 8.55; etc.], so that he has the same number of openings as the number of years he has lived. Hence the prohibition against eating the hare represents a rejection of pederasty. The hyena, on the other hand, is alternately male and female in succeeding years-by which [Moses] suggests that those who abstain from the hyena will not be very prone to adultery.

Perhaps in your concordance, (I must perfer Strong's for the proselytizing you do) you can cite the book chapter and verse where Christ spoke of pederasty. I'm sorry to say, Roli, you've got it backwards. All you have given us is periphal to the topic.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The testimony against homosexuality is not set by christians but Christ himself,He is not as liberal against sin as we in this liberal society tend to be.

So where exactly does Christ testify against homosexuality?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Contratry to what you think, it WAS Christians of the early church who set the agenda against all types of perversity.

Following, of course, traditional sayings attributed to Jesus that were already circulated among Socratic and Stoic philosophers of the day.

Socrates and Jesus on lust:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30534&highlight=Socrates

 

[roli]

Wheteher you have the time or an inclination or an ignorance of it, you have an orientation. It is "whatever turns you on" and if you're not turned on by anytrhing you have an asexual orientation. It's definitional in the make-up of all living animals. You can't escape it.

Yes, whatever turns you on may not be criminal against man,but when it goes against is God's purposes,it becomes destestable,man will ujnderstand the day they close their eyes in this life.
You obviously don't understand where God's intended design ends and man's perversion begins,it is easier to justify the human sexual perversion than it is to wlak according to God's plan.
For your info. when the Sons of God laid with the daughters of men,incest began.
But again the natural man ,meaning the man without God does not understand the things of God neither can he know them they are foolishness to him for they are spiritually discerned 1Cor 1

That would be sexual identity and has nothing to do with orientation.
You can not provide specific, delininatory, biblical evidence that God created only one SEXUAL ORIENTATION However there is evidence from every same-sex oriented animal that God created at least two orientations. There is evidence from science, both medical and biological there is MIXED[/B[ morphology both internal and external.
:sigh: Sexual IDENTITY again!

You call it what you like, God calls it a perversion and sin, if any sex is done outside the confines of marriage,take it up with God don't put words into His mouth.

I haven't said that. I'n saying it has always been present. Even the bible documents incest (remember Lot?). Original procreatation was incesterial. The orientations that are considered perverse are dealt with by civil law. Law does not consider same-sex orientation criminal.

Incest became criminal in God's eyes when the Sons of God slept with the daughters of men which were those outside the people of God read Gen 6 understand where the fury of God started regarding incest.

But God also has written words that give acceptence to pleasureable passion.

Yes of course ,the Song of Solomon was such a book,in the confines of the marriage bed.

Only in the confines of marriage, eh? Wasn't it Tamar who outside of marriage acted as a whore with Judah. Now the purpose ot that act was procreation for Tamar and pleasure for Judah. And they WERE NOT MARRIED.

Nonsense.

You can sleep with any woman and obviously procreate, yet still be outside the will of God
Abraham ,Jacob,david,Solomon all had concubines,,Holy men but walking in the flesh and lusts of their own desires.

I'm afraid your darkness is my light

That is too wild buddy, you just fulfilled bible prophecy ,if you call my light darkness which is God's word,the truth, then the bible says
Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Sin does not belong in the Constitution nor in civil law. Sin is entirely a religious concept And pushing biblical sin on society is the vestige of theocracy

Are you rewriting your version of the constitution because the word of God was absolutely involved in the writing of the consitution by many of the founders and those who signed it,if you disagree with this your only reading half the story,of course bias sides tend to prevail in arguements such as this,that is another thread
Sin is a moral concept and a part of everyone of us,you know when you go against the conscience, that God placed in all of us,that is the place that God's spirit speaks to man ,but as it is, we drown out that small still voice becoming desensitized to any moral inclination,time will someday prove that to the rational and relative mind of our day.
Theocracy ,I am glad you brought that up ,it was the one of the sole foundations that established North American why do you think we are so rich and free in our society , we startee out with God, as did Israel in the Old Testament,but then turned to our own ideas and philosophy of how it should be,taking God out and bringing in Humanism,evolution,Secularism, hey, look at the currancy,"In God We Trust" where did that come from ,drawing straws,
Could you hear them now, Let's see what can we put on our currency that sounds good,looks good and is really in line with separation of church and state.
In God We Trust, but the question today is why don't we trust

 

[Pah]

Following, of course, traditional sayings attributed to Jesus that were already circulated among Socratic and Stoic philosophers of the day.

Socrates and Jesus on lust:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30534&highlight=Socrates

Clement references Paul and Greek philosophists

While Clement references Moses there is no citation.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Yes of course ,the Song of Solomon was such a book,in the confines of the marriage bed.

Comparing a king's concubine to a wife is hardly suitable.

 

[Pah]

Comparing a king's concubine to a wife is hardly suitable.

:slap:

But it was a traditional family

 

[angellous_evangellous]

:slap:

But it was a traditional family

Only a few polygamists would say that Solomon's family was "traditional" - but a concubine is basically a sex slave and not a wife. If I had a concubine, Song of Solomon would be music to my ears.

Things being as they are...:beach:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon#His_harem_and_its_consequences

"The bible gives an elaborate number of wives - 700 wives with 300 concubines - somewhat more than would simply be achieved by political marriages with every nation in the Near East as well as large chunks of India, Africa, and Europe; either these figures are exaggerations, or Solomon had a particularly voracious sexual appetite."

 

[Pah]

Only a few polygamists would say that Solomon's family was "traditional" - but a concubine is basically a sex slave and not a wife. If I had a concubine, Song of Solomon would be music to my ears.

Things being as they are...:beach:

"The bible gives an elaborate number of wives - 700 wives with 300 concubines - somewhat more than would simply be achieved by political marriages with every nation in the Near East as well as large chunks of India, Africa, and Europe; either these figures are exaggerations, or Solomon had a particularly voracious sexual appetite."

Are you saying Biblical is not traditional??? Hehehe.