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Homosexuality & Religion

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
im not saying that homosexuals are like hermaphrodites

Im saying that hermaphrodites have 'no choice' because of their biology....homosexuals on the other hand have no biological reason (that we know of) to be attracted to the same sex therefore it is a choice.
Wrong. Gay Men, Straight Women Have Similar Brains.

Even without that, just because we don't know the cause(s) with 100% certainty, that doesn't mean "it's a choice." Do you know precisely what genes determine your eye color? Does ignorance imply choice?
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
He does not create things that go against his own ideals. He is a God of law, order & purpose and everything he makes has its proper place.

You mentioned rapists earlier... they might claim that they are just having sex, but in reality they are using sex as a tool of terror and domination....that is sex taken to an extreme and far from its intended purpose. Then there are those who use sex as a punishment, then there are those who have sex with children and the list goes on. God is rightly concerned when sex is taken out of its right context because sex has a higher purpose then mere gratification.

What's a common element between rapists, sex as punishment, and sex with children?

None of them involve consent, none of them involve love.

I truly, honestly, sincerely want to know why you thought drawing that comparison was in any sense whatsoever appropriate.

Those things are obviously wrong because of a lack of consent.

By why would God care if two consenting adults decide to be intimate with one another? Is your God really so petty?
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
He does not create things that go against his own ideals. He is a God of law, order & purpose and everything he makes has its proper place.
So, by this logic, sexual minorities have a purpose just like everyone else, right? I'll ask again:
queer.png
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
God is rightly concerned when sex is taken out of its right context because sex has a higher purpose then mere gratification.

Really? So what is this higher purpose? And how do you know that? And how do you know god's concerns?
 

ButTheCatCameBack

Active Member
im not saying that homosexuals are like hermaphrodites

Im saying that hermaphrodites have 'no choice' because of their biology....homosexuals on the other hand have no biological reason (that we know of) to be attracted to the same sex therefore it is a choice.

Not only is this a gross simplification of hermaphrodites. The latter part sounds like another "why isn't there a gay gene." red herring.
 

ButTheCatCameBack

Active Member
He does not create things that go against his own ideals. He is a God of law, order & purpose and everything he makes has its proper place.

You mentioned rapists earlier... they might claim that they are just having sex, but in reality they are using sex as a tool of terror and domination....that is sex taken to an extreme and far from its intended purpose. Then there are those who use sex as a punishment, then there are those who have sex with children and the list goes on. God is rightly concerned when sex is taken out of its right context because sex has a higher purpose then mere gratification.

Christianity often if not ALWAYS argues that Jehovah is omniscient. To try to reconcile this with homosexuality some Christian groups think of homosexuality as a curse of some sort or a form of demonic possession. So it renders that idea moot. Well actually,.it renders a lot of Christian arguments moot but that's a whole other story. As for why Jehova seems to have something against homosexuality. I believe someone once had a saying about how isn't it funny that someone's God seems to hate and like all the same person the believer hates and likes.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
I believe someone once had a saying about how isn't it funny that someone's God seems to hate and like all the same person the believer hates and likes.

I`m constantly amazed at how the all powerful omniscient creator and ruler of the entire universe is so concerned with where I`m putting my penis.

It`s enough to give me a serious sense of overinflated self-importance.

:D

God is so damned preoccupied with my peepee!
 

Duck

Well-Known Member
Broad statement what can you produce as evidence?



Are you serious, since the only ones that count are the parents of the following generation.

Cheers

Your argument is flawed. Homosexuality does NOT necessarily preclude breeding.

As much as I hate the phrase there is a little truth to the idea of "preference" regarding sexual orientation. Being LG or T does NOT automatically mean that one is INFERTILE. Essentially, the LG part (and there is MUCH more to sexual orientation than strictly what tab goes into what slot) indicates that one's "preference" (if you will) for healthy, long term, non-familial, adult relationships which include sexual activity is with members of one's own sex. I leave the T out of this particular statement because there are more complicating factors for T-folks than for cis-gender folks, not out of any conscious cis-genderism.

Just because I am not attracted to women (and my lesbian sisters aren't attracted to men), and don't normally pursue sexual encounters with them does not mean either:

1) That I am infertile, or
2) That I am incapable of "closing my eyes and thinking of England" or "taking one for the team". Fantasy is a very powerful motivator in sexual encounters resulting in the one absolutely necessary event for a male to breed: an erection leading to ejaculation.

Enough "liquid courage" at a fraternity/New Year's/Birthday/Halloween party and I would be quite capable of having sex with a woman without birth control (on either of our parts), potentially resulting in my fathering some ducklings. Other scenarios might also (under abnormal {for me} circumstances) lead to my breeding. In modern society with modern technology it is also quite possible that I would pass my genes on by some other means such as invitro-fertilization or via a sperm bank. In social circumstances that result in particularly strong taboos on homosexual behavior, "thinking of England" could result in several children, just ask former Senator Larry Craig, or pastor Ted Haggard.

So being L or G is by NO means an evolutionary dead end, and it is quite possible for L or G peeps to pass on their genetic material quite evolutionarily successfully, particularly if all we are considering for evolutionary success is pushing out a couple of brats. Until the 1950s or so, T-folks would have been limited (at least in christianized European based societies) to living as and within their birth gender (generally speaking, there are no doubt some exceptions), neither of which would necessarily preclude breeding.
 

ButTheCatCameBack

Active Member
I`m constantly amazed at how the all powerful omniscient creator and ruler of the entire universe is so concerned with where I`m putting my penis.

It`s enough to give me a serious sense of overinflated self-importance.

:D

God is so damned preoccupied with my peepee!

Given the religious imperative to insert(heh) cosmic, supernatural importance into every act a human can commit. It's no surprise. Ritualism's heavy hand in religion speaks to that.

Me, I'm waiting for the religion that comes along and says humans suck and
are unimportant.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
That really floored me and got me to start thinking. This man really feels this way, for whatever reason. Why should I or anyone else force him not to pursue what is natural to him.

I would flip out if I have to date and kiss another man. It is totally gross to me. You see? Thats what My brother in law feels like in this society.

Also , if you look at pictures of him when he was like 6 years old, you could already see he was gay. He had a feminine mannerisms all his life. Are you trying to say it was a " choice " for him? at 6 years old to act like a girl???!!!

A little common sense an realize some people are just born this way and get over it!

these sorts of examples are very strong for something biological going on and I honestly believe that if there really is something biological happening within such individuals, then God would not hold them accountable for how they feel about the same sex.

But we are all held accountable for our 'actions' no matter what they are.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Given the religious imperative to insert(heh) cosmic, supernatural importance into every act a human can commit. It's no surprise. Ritualism's heavy hand in religion speaks to that.

Me, I'm waiting for the religion that comes along and says humans suck and
are unimportant.
If I were interested in winning converts, I'd be tempted.

This is probably the third post I've seen from you that assumes all religious folk are Bible-thumping *** hole hypocrites who want you to do things our way. We're not.
 

ButTheCatCameBack

Active Member
If I were interested in winning converts, I'd be tempted.

This is probably the third post I've seen from you that assumes all religious folk are Bible-thumping *** hole hypocrites who want you to do things our way. We're not.

Right...because a post that says religion shows a pattern of placing humanity at the center of the universe and ritualism is an outgrowth of this is applicable to only Christianity. Since after all it's rather hard to be a bible thumper if you're a Hindu or Buddhist. Most human beings period are hypocrites but that is neither here nor there. Regardless, you're inability to parse some sentences is not my problem.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
What's a common element between rapists, sex as punishment, and sex with children?

None of them involve consent, none of them involve love.

I truly, honestly, sincerely want to know why you thought drawing that comparison was in any sense whatsoever appropriate.

Those things are obviously wrong because of a lack of consent.

By why would God care if two consenting adults decide to be intimate with one another? Is your God really so petty?

i appreciate that those 3 examples involve consent, the reason for raising them is because of the point I was making about 'purpose'

Most of us believe that those 3 acts are hideous and would never do them. But the point is that they are being perpetrated every day by people who have a different view to us.

Likewise, just because you have a different view to God about how you think sex should be performed, does not make your view right just as it does not make their view right. This is what im trying to get at.

i'm not going to comment any further because i never intended for this to become a debate. God allows people to live the way they choose but at the same time he reserves the right to state his own standards of what he views as right and wrong...he does that through the bible and you have the right to take it or leave it.


I have a JW friend who was actively homosexual and very well known in the gay community for most of his young adult life....when he decided to become a JW in his mid 30's he openly admitted that he would never marry a woman because he wasnt attracted to women. Thats fair enough, no one is forced to do anything...there is a choice in everything we do.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Right...because a post that says religion shows a pattern of placing humanity at the center of the universe and ritualism is an outgrowth of this is applicable to only Christianity. Since after all it's rather hard to be a bible thumper if you're a Hindu or Buddhist. Most human beings period are hypocrites but that is neither here nor there. Regardless, you're inability to parse some sentences is not my problem.
*sigh*

Calling something "the religious imperative" implies it's an imperative for all religion. You didn't say "religion has a pattern of [whatever]." If you had, I wouldn't have objected.

You lump us all together as if "religion" were some monolithic entity with only one opinion on any given matter. We can't even agree on whether there's a God, for God's sake!
 

ButTheCatCameBack

Active Member
*sigh*

Calling something "the religious imperative" implies it's an imperative for all religion. You didn't say "religion has a pattern of [whatever]." If you had, I wouldn't have objected.

You lump us all together as if "religion" were some monolithic entity with only one opinion on any given matter. We can't even agree on whether there's a God, for God's sake!


All religions posit a supernatural universe. There is common ground to be had. Anything else you'd like to THINK my post implied is your problem. And there was a reason I posted that I'd wait for a religion that doesn't place humanity and it's actions as one with cosmic importance. Because that common thread exists in world religions. Whether you are happy with that is up to you. It also still doesn't explain your bible thumper remark since ritualism and the supernatural repercussions of human actions is neither exclusively or originally a Christian concept. If you have an axe to grind good..I'm not a tree and don't have time for people who want to make baseless assumptions.
 
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darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
i think they choose it because some are happy to be married and have kids and some are bi sexual

some men experiment with it for a while then go back to being with females

You ignored my point.

Did you choose to not be gay? Did you naturally like the opposite sex or did you make a choice?
 
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