Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Then so too is heterosexuality.
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Homosexuality. Why is it wrong?
- Thread starter snl2240
- Start date
Then so too is heterosexuality.
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
Michel Foucault, whose History of Sexuality vol. i. I am currently reading, argued that the concept of sexual orientation was not developed until the 18th/19th centuries. It was only until the scientific revolution and the birth of psychology that people began to view specific sexual acts/preferences as representing a core identity. For instance, Ancient Greeks separated people into whether you are the penetrator or the penetratee, which seems weird and silly to us.
Nemo Hawkins
Member
So wait are you trying to say that there was no such thing as 18th/19th Homosexuality till the 18th/19th centuries?
If im reading that right (and i hope i am) thats funny **** and not true.
If there was not Homosexuality till the 18th/19th centuries why is it even in the Holy Bible?
if i was reading what you sed wrong then i am sorry and i feel dumb XD
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
Well, I am not so sure I believe Foucault's argument. But, what Foucault meant is that nobody viewed homosexuality as a lifestyle back in the old Christian day (Dark Ages, Middle Ages, what have you). Homosexuality was considered an aberrant act, not something that makes up a part of your core identity. Though, you do raise an interesting point. Romans I in the New Testament seems to counteract the idea that people did not view "homosexuals" as "homosexuals."
Nemo Hawkins
Member
i don't understand why people view homosexuality as a lifestyle anyway
lifestyle implies its a choice
you dont choose to be gay
and if homosexuality is a aberrant act then so is heterosexuality
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
Amen.
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
Nemo Hawkins
Member
im not big on that amen God stuff tbh but im so happy to see there are people out there that are ok with people like me so thank you :rainbow1:
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
Sorry, I am a little on edge as of late. You were being sincere, and I was kind of jerkish. :sorry1: Think about it this way. Michel Foucault argued that people used to think of homosexuals much in the same way we think of adulterers today. We do not consider adultery to be an orientation or a life-style, just something bad that some people do. Honestly, I think Foucault is a *******, but his book does raise interesting concepts and questions. Another way to think about it is the phenomenon where heterosexual men, rape other men (as in war) in order to humiliate and degrade them.
I am an atheist as well. "Mirandaiweskerism" is a made up "religion." :rainbow1:
Bismillah
Submit
Here's the rub, I don't think that homosexuality was confined to just a case by case scenario of sexual occurrences. The example I gave kind of elaborates on that. It was a chosen lifestyle, they did not reject having sex with a women but rejected marrying a women. In other words the people of Lot chose a specific lifestyle. Your example of adultery is a good one. The reason why there is so much emphasis on the specific sexual act is because generally it isn't considered bad to have homosexual tendencies or thoughts. I would presume that it is in part natural, however the act of homosexual sex itself was considered the sin.
MissAlice
Well-Known Member
Thank you and I'm happy for him too.
I think the reason I'm more empathetic is I know what it's like not to be "normal". I have Aspergers and he's a homosexual. At least he's in a relationship and making friends.
javajo
Well-Known Member
I don't believe its wrong. If that is one's natural sexual orientation, then it seems it must be just fine. I think it may be wrong to go against one's natural sexual orientation, like for a gay person to 'be' with someone of the opposite sex or for a straight person to 'be' with a person of the same sex. Unless, of course they were bisexual, then it would be just fine. It seems wrong, to me, for people, whatever their sexual orientation, to just go out and have sex with multiple partners or cheat on their partner or be fornicators, adulterers or whoremongers. I guess to be given over to unbridled sexual passion only for the sake of sex and not as a special, intimate thing one shares in love with their partner. But, I'm a little out of my depth here so, what do I know? I know people should not judge others, I do know that. And people should love and accept others, too. And people should leave other people alone if they can't deal with it. Yeah. Something like that.
Nemo Hawkins
Member
i can relate to you and himThank you and I'm happy for him too.
im gay and i have aspergers my mum seems to think me being ''bi'' (i have not tolled her im gay) is because of my aspergers and ADHD and my dad thinks its because i live with my mum and not him kinda sucks
The word homosexual did not enter the bible until modern (1946) interpretations and editions. Prior to that the words currently attributed as 'homosexual' were translated differently.
My understanding was that the people of Sodom were offered Lot's daughters to rape not marry. Granted by rules contained in the bible, the one (rape) could lead to the other (marriage) but only under certain circumstances (the victim wasn't married, betrothed and was a virgin).
And as someone else on this forum often says, if one looks at a story involving homosexual gang rape and your issue is with the homosexual part, well, personally I think that your moral compass is a little bit off.
Bismillah
Submit
Sorry I was talking from the Qur'anic perspective which is marriage, I am not sure about the Biblical perspective.
I am not confining their sins to one specific act the people of Lut are accused of everything from being inhospitable and humiliation of travelers to their rape and thievery.
Rather the point was that the aforementioned theory is wrong, homosexuality was also recognized as part of a mentality as opposed to an isolated incident long before the 18th and 19th centuries.
Many Sages One Truth
Active Member
What I find weird about the Sodom story is that people overlook the fact that Lot offered his daughters to the people of Sodom to be raped, what a good father. Then it goes on to say that Lot's sons in law were with the other men of the city, oops, guess his daughters were married to gay guys.
Genesis 19:8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them.
14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, “Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.
Genesis 19:8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them.
14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, “Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.