Homosexuality

[Sgt. Pepper]

Not just Christians, but also in cowboy culture, macho male culture, and overwhelming in another major faith on this planet.

Yes, I know that, but I was speaking from my personal perspective as an ex-evangelical conservative Christian.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Fortunately, those of us without religious beliefs that might interfere, will probably look at this issue and related ones with a more rational and reasonable approach - if one looked at the evidence for its prevalence in humans (over time and worldwide) and in other species, as mentioned by others, so as for it to be just another aspect of human nature. Hence why I have no issues at all with any who are homosexuals, whether they are male or female. I've never had any close friends who were openly gay but I have suspected at least one of being so. I feel sorry for those who appear to have their lives dictated by some particular religious dogma, especially when they might be more naturally sympathetic - given that in many countries the lives of so many are often made worse because of such religious beliefs. Such beliefs have not impacted my overall reasons as to being non-religious though. It's just another area with which we will always clash it seems.

I'm pleased to see that in my lifetime (in the UK) we have seen so much change as to homosexuality becoming so accepted - as it should be.

 

[MyM]

But do you have to disown your own people? Like I don’t think my parents approved of every thing I’ve ever done. Sometimes even on the grounds of religious morality. But they never disowned me over it.
Ironically I think their creator would punish them if they did (their belief system.)

I am not the one to answer. I was just stating what no one else wanted to

 

[SomeRandom]

I am not the one to answer. I was just stating what no one else wanted to

Okay. But the OP was specific in that it asked whether one would in fact disown someone for this sin.
I have sinned. My own parents have admonished me for committing our version of sin. Many times.
So I mean would disowning someone appease said creator or not?

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, I know that, but I was speaking from my personal perspective as an ex-evangelical conservative Christian.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Thanks for clarifying.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, and I should have clarified it in my other post.

 

[MyM]

Okay. But the OP was specific in that it asked whether one would in fact disown someone for this sin.
I have sinned. My own parents have admonished me for committing our version of sin. Many times.
So I mean would disowning someone appease said creator or not?

If you are looking for a straight answer, I will only tell you what the religions say.

The city of sodom and gomorah was completely destroyed....the Creator detested it. If you want someone to think you deserve the right to not be disowned, that is up to them. It's also between you and your Creator and you already know what that is.

 

[Rival]

If you are looking for a straight answer, I will only tell you what the religions say.

The city of sodom and gomorah was completely destroyed....the Creator detested it. If you want someone to think you deserve the right to not be disowned, that is up to them. It's also between you and your Creator and you already know what that is.

We don't all worship the same Creator God. Mine hasn't said anything about homosexuals, and lesbianism was common in Ancient Egypt.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Nowadays, everyone accepts it as "the norm" then, then the norm desensitizes and then it gets put into the system as completely normal.

I have nothing against homosexuals, but in all the Abrahamic religions, it is forbidden. God detests it and their books testify to this fact.

So I guess it boils down to who do you want to please? Your creator or people

Why would I want to please a murderous homophobic monster? Such an entity only deserves my distain and disgust.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Nowadays, everyone accepts it as "the norm" then, then the norm desensitizes and then it gets put into the system as completely normal.

I have nothing against homosexuals, but in all the Abrahamic religions, it is forbidden. God detests it and their books testify to this fact.

So I guess it boils down to who do you want to please? Your creator or people

Would you like it if you were forsaken by your loved one and friends because of your sins? What if you were legally discriminated against solely based on your sins? What you were denied medical care, health insurance, renting or buying a home, adopting a child, and you were denied service in a public business based solely on your sins? I don't know where you live, but I live in the United States of America. I live in a nation that's supposedly founded on freedom, liberty and justice for all. The basic philosophy behind the United States is that all people are created equal, and entitled to basic human rights. In spite of what many Christians (and many other theists) believe, these basic human rights, as well as civil rights and equality, are extended to LGBT Americans.

Imagine if all these religious theists who oppose homosexuality were denied service in a normally public business, such as a bakery or a photographer, based solely on the fact that they are religious theists and nothing more. How would it make them feel?

Imagine these religious theists being denied medical care, medical procedures, home loans, house rentals, employment, insurance coverage, and adopting children. I doubt very seriously that they'd like being treated like lowlife second class citizens when they are constitutionally guaranteed freedom, liberty and justice. I imagine there would be a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

How would these religious theists feel if they were faced with the same social injustice and discrimination homosexuals have been fighting against for so long in this country? I imagine these theists would scream persecution if they were ever denied medical care or a home loan or employment or the right to adopt a child or denied service in a public business just because they're religious.

I seem to remember something about the United States of America being founded on freedom, liberty and justice for all. I wasn't aware that homosexual and other LGBT American citizens are to be left out of this equation because some disgruntled Christians, and other religious theists, don't personally and morally approve of the sexual orientation of LGBT American citizens.

Just imagine if the shoe was on the other foot.

"The injustice you allow against others will become others will become injustice that comes against you." - Leonard Peltier

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'm following from @Vouthon's thread which seems to be going in a different direction.

I saw on there some folks saying that essentially homosexual kin should be let go of. I first would like to know how Christians accord this with 'forgive seventy times seven' and eating with sinners and so on, and second how could any person, in his heart, disown a brother or sister or whoever, or a friend, for this? One can disagree with the behaviour, or one can repudiate the person, but I don't think this is an issue like murder or rape, by any means. In every other area of his life he could be a stellar person, a model student, a great giver, a considerate worker, but you're going to kick him out because he fell in love with another boy?

Could you find it in yourself to disown someone over this? Some of your friends may be closeted, some may be out, some may be your brothers or sisters.

Is this the way forward? I disagree massively with what the LGBT movement has done and become and I do not own any of that. But that is not what I'm talking about.

Let the homosexuals be who they are....what is right for one person may not be right for someone else, but no need to be an *** toward someone who struggle to find their identity and sexual preference.

 

[SomeRandom]

If you are looking for a straight answer, I will only tell you what the religions say.

The city of sodom and gomorah was completely destroyed....the Creator detested it. If you want someone to think you deserve the right to not be disowned, that is up to them. It's also between you and your Creator and you already know what that is.

Fair enough. Though there are those who argue Sodom and Gamorah was destroyed for the sin of failing in hospitality, which was a really big deal back then (likely a hold over from Ancient Greek customs.)
So one could hypothetically make the argument that disowning a person is an even bigger abomination, since that is beyond inhospitable. Perhaps angering the creator even more

 

[VoidCat]

Unless you are prepared to acknowledge children grow up to be their own people you shouldnt have kids. Too many folks have kids with plans on what they should be. But unless you are ok with a child that is lgbt, disabled, has a different religious/political beliefs then you, and/or a kid that is completely different then you, you shouldn't have kids. Period. A kid owes their parent nothing but a parent owes the kid everything. The child didn't choose to be born.

Sadly folk don't realize this.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I disagree massively with what the LGBT movement has done and become and I do not own any of that. But that is not what I'm talking about.

What is it that "the LGBT movement has done and become" that you disagree with so massively?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I don't understand why a person would abandon another over a harmless and personal choice such as this.

Why do you think it is a "choice?"

 

[MyM]

Would you like it if you were forsaken by your loved one and friends because of your sins? What if you were legally discriminated against solely based on your sins? What you were denied medical care, health insurance, renting or buying a home, adopting a child, and you were denied service in a public business based solely on your sins? I don't know where you live, but I live in the United States of America. I live in a nation that's supposedly founded on freedom, liberty and justice for all. The basic philosophy behind the United States is that all people are created equal, and entitled to basic human rights. In spite of what many Christians (and many other theists) believe, these basic human rights, as well as civil rights and equality, are extended to LGBT Americans.

Imagine if all these religious theists who oppose homosexuality were denied service in a normally public business, such as a bakery or a photographer, based solely on the fact that they are religious theists and nothing more. How would it make them feel?

Imagine these religious theists being denied medical care, medical procedures, home loans, house rentals, employment, insurance coverage, and adopting children. I doubt very seriously that they'd like being treated like lowlife second class citizens when they are constitutionally guaranteed freedom, liberty and justice. I imagine there would be a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

How would these religious theists feel if they were faced with the same social injustice and discrimination homosexuals have been fighting against for so long in this country? I imagine these theists would scream persecution if they were ever denied medical care or a home loan or employment or the right to adopt a child or denied service in a public business just because they're religious.

I seem to remember something about the United States of America being founded on freedom, liberty and justice for all. I wasn't aware that homosexual and other LGBT American citizens are to be left out of that equation because some Christians, and other religious theists, don't personally and morally approve of the sexual orientation of LGBT/homosexual American citizens.

Just imagine if the shoe was on the other foot.

"The injustice you allow against others will become others will become injustice that comes against you." - Leonard Peltier

As I said, it's not on me to answer. I just put what the faiths are.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

As I said, it's not on me to answer. I just put what the faiths are.

My questions are for YOU to answer, and excusing yourself by falling back on your faith isn't going to work. It's a cop-out.

Would you like it if you were forsaken by your loved one and friends because of your sins? What if you were legally discriminated against solely based on your sins? What you were denied medical care, health insurance, renting or buying a home, adopting a child, and you were denied service in a public business based solely on your sins? These are questions for YOU to answer.

 

[epronovost]

Perhaps angering the creator even more

The very idea that morality is about pleasing or appeasing something or someone is, to me, a great sign of stupidity and childishness. Morals are supposed to be a position on issues of values and rules of conduct as they relate to human wellfare and flourishment.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I first would like to know how Christians accord this with 'forgive seventy times seven' and eating with sinners and so on, and second how could any person, in his heart, disown a brother or sister or whoever, or a friend, for this?

I considered disowning a friend when I was immature. They weren't gay but had some other issue, and I thought I'd help them by making the friendship conditional. This was stupid.

I have become superstitious about judging, because it seems like anything that I criticize someone else for happens to me. I have a partly believed superstition that I am experiencing instant karma. I'm very careful, now, to try not to bring disaster upon myself. I swear my finger must be connected by a string to a boot at my backside.

My advice when disowning a friend is only to do so if they are toxic to you, bringing you down and making you less functional and if you can't avoid them or they won't let you go. There may also be cases where you can simply avoid them, but if toxicity keeps seeking you out then that is a reason to disown.

Mercy is often a function of intelligence on an individual level.

I recently saw a very lengthy video explaining that lead poisoning might explain how the Romans became so exceedingly barbaric. I'm sure people are tired of my reliance upon youtube videos, but sometimes they are very good and have interesting ideas. Ancient people (the video points out) were generally more violent than today, but the Romans embellished the possible ways to die horribly and to make sure someone died in total fear and agony. It was their entertainment, and possibly their lead addled brains had something to do with it.

Spoiler: Empire of Psychopaths (Into the Shadows)

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Who would cut my hair?

There's no frubal for "tacky stereotype."