Homosexuality

[MyM]

Is that so? Please, then: give the Bible and Quran verses that say gang rape is okay.

what?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

what?

You heard me.

 

[MyM]

You heard me.

I seriously don't know what you mean lol

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I seriously don't know what you mean lol

You pointed to a story about a group of people trying to gang-rape some angels and said that the problem with what they were doing is that they were men and the angels were male.

You didn't point to any problem with the idea of gang rape; only with the idea that the gang rape would be same-sex.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Nope. It never addresses orientation, since orientation wasn’t on the psychological radar at that time.

Back in those times, in Greek culture, men used women for babies and men and boys, but only those of a lower social position, for sex. The Bible is full of rules about "kinds", like if it swims it has to have scales, so things that swim without scales are not eaten, cows with white marks can't be used for sacrifice, things that other religions and cultures do are wrong. They needed to be separate, so Yahweh would favor them. The homosexual thing is only because Greeks did it. Yahweh and his followers become very narrow minded.

 

[MyM]

You pointed to a story about a group of people trying to gang-rape some angels and said that the problem with what they were doing is that they were men and the angels were male.

You didn't point to any problem with the idea of gang rape; only with the idea that the gang rape would be same-sex.

the story speaks for itself

 

[Sand Dancer]

Is that so? Please, then: give the Bible and Quran verses that say gang rape is okay.

Edit: and that aside, the defense of "my bigoted, immoral position is unoriginal" is a fair way off from "my position isn't bigoted or immoral."

I think that either in that area or that culture, if a new person didn't have a place to stay after dark, they were "fair game" to be raped. I guess maybe because they didn't have any business or friends there, so they were seen as worthless. Not sure of the specifics, but I read that somewhere.

 

[Clara Tea]

I'm following from @Vouthon's thread which seems to be going in a different direction.

I saw on there some folks saying that essentially homosexual kin should be let go of. I first would like to know how Christians accord this with 'forgive seventy times seven' and eating with sinners and so on, and second how could any person, in his heart, disown a brother or sister or whoever, or a friend, for this? One can disagree with the behaviour, or one can repudiate the person, but I don't think this is an issue like murder or rape, by any means. In every other area of his life he could be a stellar person, a model student, a great giver, a considerate worker, but you're going to kick him out because he fell in love with another boy?

Could you find it in yourself to disown someone over this? Some of your friends may be closeted, some may be out, some may be your brothers or sisters.

Is this the way forward? I disagree massively with what the LGBT movement has done and become and I do not own any of that. But that is not what I'm talking about.

The bible says that it is wrong to be Gay. However, only God is the judge. On the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said "Judge not lest ye be judged."

The bible also says that a lot of things are wrong. For example, it was wrong for Reverend Jimmy Swaggart to hire a prostitute in Lancaster, California (he was arrested). Yet, he was forgiven, and is preaching again. It seems that Christians forgive one group, but not another.

Christians cherry pick what they want to observe out of the bible. Apparently, the old testament command "thou shalt not kill" was not observed in the recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (not to mention the cruelty of the torture camps, like Guantanamo, Cuba, and many other camps like it that the US maintains around the world.

Notice that President Bill Clinton was castigated and impeached over the Monica Lewinski affair, yet, other than being in the press, little was said about the far steamier affair of George Herbert Walker Bush and Jennifer Fitzgerald. Bush actually compromised National Security by hiring the Brit as a personal secretary when he was the head of the Central Intelligence Agency.

The inequity in punishment, and the inequity in picking and choosing passages of the bible, cause the application of God's laws to be lopsided and unfair.

It is a Christian's duty to be warm and friendly. I would imagine that heaven would be a hellish place if everyone was constantly snapping and snarling.

 

[Clara Tea]

I could never imagine letting go of my son or niece, who recently came out as pan-sexual to me(which I didn't understand the vocabulary, and it had to be explained). My only concern for his future relationships is that he is neither abused or is abusing. His future mate's gender means nothing to me.

I don't understand why a person would abandon another over something such as this. It has nothing to do with anyone other than the person themselves... of no more importance than whether one prefers blondes or brunettes..(or purple hair...), in my opinion.

The streets are filled with homeless. This certainly is not what Jesus wanted. Many of the homeless are veterans with Post Traumatic Stress. Some are Gay teens, kicked out by their families, and now turning tricks with greasy old strangers in order to get food to live.

The world is a mess, and bad decisions made it so. Many of those decisions were from misinterpretations of the bible or unfair decisions based on scripture.

 

[Clara Tea]

I think that either in that area or that culture, if a new person didn't have a place to stay after dark, they were "fair game" to be raped. I guess maybe because they didn't have any business or friends there, so they were seen as worthless. Not sure of the specifics, but I read that somewhere.

No one is fair game for crimes.

 

[MyM]

The bible says that it is wrong to be Gay. However, only God is the judge. On the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said "Judge not lest ye be judged."

The bible also says that a lot of things are wrong. For example, it was wrong for Reverend Jimmy Swaggart to hire a prostitute in Lancaster, California (he was arrested). Yet, he was forgiven, and is preaching again. It seems that Christians forgive one group, but not another.

Christians cherry pick what they want to observe out of the bible. Apparently, the old testament command "thou shalt not kill" was not observed in the recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (not to mention the cruelty of the torture camps, like Guantanamo, Cuba, and many other camps like it that the US maintains around the world.

Notice that President Bill Clinton was castigated and impeached over the Monica Lewinski affair, yet, other than being in the press, little was said about the far steamier affair of George Herbert Walker Bush and Jennifer Fitzgerald. Bush actually compromised National Security by hiring the Brit as a personal secretary when he was the head of the Central Intelligence Agency.

The inequity in punishment, and the inequity in picking and choosing passages of the bible, cause the application of God's laws to be lopsided and unfair.

It is a Christian's duty to be warm and friendly. I would imagine that heaven would be a hellish place if everyone was constantly snapping and snarling.

People forgive sure...but no one can say God forgave them

 

[Clara Tea]

Fortunately, those of us without religious beliefs that might interfere, will probably look at this issue and related ones with a more rational and reasonable approach - if one looked at the evidence for its prevalence in humans (over time and worldwide) and in other species, as mentioned by others, so as for it to be just another aspect of human nature. Hence why I have no issues at all with any who are homosexuals, whether they are male or female. I've never had any close friends who were openly gay but I have suspected at least one of being so. I feel sorry for those who appear to have their lives dictated by some particular religious dogma, especially when they might be more naturally sympathetic - given that in many countries the lives of so many are often made worse because of such religious beliefs. Such beliefs have not impacted my overall reasons as to being non-religious though. It's just another area with which we will always clash it seems.

I'm pleased to see that in my lifetime (in the UK) we have seen so much change as to homosexuality becoming so accepted - as it should be.

Ironic....the most compassion is, once again, from an atheist.

 

[Clara Tea]

People forgive sure...but no one can say God forgave them

I thought that Jesus died for our sins? Are you sure God doesn't forgive?

 

[MyM]

I thought that Jesus died for our sins? Are you sure God doesn't forgive?

You sayin God died?


But God yes, he can but you cannot say he did.

 

[Clara Tea]

I considered disowning a friend when I was immature. They weren't gay but had some other issue, and I thought I'd help them by making the friendship conditional. This was stupid.

I have become superstitious about judging, because it seems like anything that I criticize someone else for happens to me. I have a partly believed superstition that I am experiencing instant karma. I'm very careful, now, to try not to bring disaster upon myself. I swear my finger must be connected by a string to a boot at my backside.

My advice when disowning a friend is only to do so if they are toxic to you, bringing you down and making you less functional and if you can't avoid them or they won't let you go. There may also be cases where you can simply avoid them, but if toxicity keeps seeking you out then that is a reason to disown.

Mercy is often a function of intelligence on an individual level.

I recently saw a very lengthy video explaining that lead poisoning might explain how the Romans became so exceedingly barbaric. I'm sure people are tired of my reliance upon youtube videos, but sometimes they are very good and have interesting ideas. Ancient people (the video points out) were generally more violent than today, but the Romans embellished the possible ways to die horribly and to make sure someone died in total fear and agony. It was their entertainment, and possibly their lead addled brains had something to do with it.

Spoiler: Empire of Psychopaths (Into the Shadows)

In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said "judge not lest ye be judged." Yet, if we don't judge Satan, we might follow him. We have to discern good from bad. To that end, it seems logical not to follow friends who become drug pushers, murderers, etc.

 

[Clara Tea]

My questions are for YOU to answer, and excusing yourself by falling back on your faith isn't going to work. It's a cop-out.

Would you like it if you were forsaken by your loved one and friends because of your sins? What if you were legally discriminated against solely based on your sins? What you were denied medical care, health insurance, renting or buying a home, adopting a child, and you were denied service in a public business based solely on your sins? These are questions for YOU to answer.

Sadly, the so-called sin of Gayness results from inability to marry (Christians want to end Gay marriage because they say that somehow it impinges on their marriages), and that prevents inheritance, child custody, etc. I think that Christians should not impose their religion on others, but should allow freedom of religion, just as the 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution proscribes.

 

[Left Coast]

They were looking like ordinary men.

The story doesn't say that. In fact, it implies the exact opposite, as both Abraham and Lot immediately and separately recognize in the story that they were not just ordinary men. You also missed the whole gang rape part. And ignored my question about Ezekiel. Again, you seem to have no interest in what the actual story says.

 

[MyM]

The story doesn't say that. In fact, it implies the exact opposite, as both Abraham and Lot immediately and separately recognize in the story that they were not just ordinary men. You also missed the whole gang rape part. And ignored my question about Ezekiel. Again, you seem to have no interest in what the actual story says.

I must have missed it sorry what was it that you wanted to know about Ezekiel?

the angels made themselves known to Lot

 

[sayak83]

I'm following from @Vouthon's thread which seems to be going in a different direction.

I saw on there some folks saying that essentially homosexual kin should be let go of. I first would like to know how Christians accord this with 'forgive seventy times seven' and eating with sinners and so on, and second how could any person, in his heart, disown a brother or sister or whoever, or a friend, for this? One can disagree with the behaviour, or one can repudiate the person, but I don't think this is an issue like murder or rape, by any means. In every other area of his life he could be a stellar person, a model student, a great giver, a considerate worker, but you're going to kick him out because he fell in love with another boy?

Could you find it in yourself to disown someone over this? Some of your friends may be closeted, some may be out, some may be your brothers or sisters.

Is this the way forward? I disagree massively with what the LGBT movement has done and become and I do not own any of that. But that is not what I'm talking about.

I am so happy some days that I am a Hindu and do not have defend morally nonsensical stances because "scriptures say so".
Life is good out here.

 

[sojourner]

I don't know much about homosexuality. Never claimed I did, I was just giving out the religious instances. I do know, that if our Creator said it is wrong, then it is wrong

That’s obvious. If you knew more about what constitutes homosexuality, you’d see that the Creator never mentions it in the Bible.

Remember the two angels that came in Lot's house. The men of the city young and old wanted Lot to bring them out so they can have sex with them. (They wanted to commit homosexual acts) on them and they were demanding that Lot turn them over to them and he even threatened Lot they would harm in worse if he didn't. So, homosexuality does have some say in the story of Lot from the Bible

Nope. See above. These aren’t “homosexual acts.” They’re acts of gang-rape. Same-sex gang rape isn’t an act of sexual orientation; it’s an act of violence.

lol why are you getting on me, I'm reading from the Christian Bible and also from the Quran

You’re misinterpreting what the Bible says. The sin was inhospitality and violence, not sexual orientation.