Homosexuality

[Shadow Wolf]

How do you measure honor without some sort of moral code?

Apparently you just let others dictate it so no measurements required.

 

[Sundance]

What would you do if your gay son (assuming you had one) brought his husband home. Would you allow them to share a bed?

Given this hypothetical situation, I wouldn’t see an issue with it. They’re married, which has nothing to do with me.

 

[MyM]

Except that the Bible doesn’t address homosexuality.

Sorry but yes it does in many places in the Bible. I put them in a thread I can't remember where but if you want, I can post the places.

 

[MyM]

Happy to see almost everyone posting here is using 21st century common sense.


Well, you could easily be in that position. Homosexuality isn't a choice, and you could have been born that way. Please educate yourself on this, it's a fact. You could choose not to act on your thoughts and desires. But why?
If there is a God, there is no way He would disapprove of his own creation.


Again, it is not wrong. I think people have known this for a long time before empirical evidence proving it. It's a shame it has taken so long for (my local) society to realize that.



What a heartless selfish statement. You would put others' opinions about your family before the wellbeing of your actual family member. I hope you find someone that you love unconditionally. If not your family, than maybe a partner or child.

I don't know much about homosexuality. Never claimed I did, I was just giving out the religious instances. I do know, that if our Creator said it is wrong, then it is wrong. Perhaps more hormones than the other, I don't know...could be hormonal imbalances. But I am not debating on what i know, since I am not in that position.

 

[Nakosis]

So since someones scripture is against homosexuality you leave the religion? Or leave religion altogether? Or end God himself?

This is a peripheral matter. Taking that and make it a composition of everything is fallacious. The scripture could be wrong, and God may exist still.

Man creates many religions. I'm not convinced these creations of man have anything to do with God.

 

[MyM]

But it isn't mentioned in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. So anyone who claims to be an Abrahamic believer should at least be aware of what their own book(s) say. The story isn't a condemnation of homosexuality.

Remember the two angels that came in Lot's house. The men of the city young and old wanted Lot to bring them out so they can have sex with them. (They wanted to commit homosexual acts) on them and they were demanding that Lot turn them over to them and he even threatened Lot they would harm in worse if he didn't. So, homosexuality does have some say in the story of Lot from the Bible. It was indeed practiced heavily if the town wanted just these two men.

It is mentioned however in the story of Lot in the Quran and through authenticated ahadith (sayings and teachings of Mohammad pbuh)

And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, “Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds? Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people.” But the answer of his people was only that they said, “Evict them from your city! Indeed, they are men who keep themselves pure.” (Ayat 80-82)

And [mention] Lot, when he said to his people, “Indeed, you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds. Indeed, you approach men and obstruct the road and commit in your meetings [every] evil.” And the answer of his people was not but they said, “Bring us the punishment of Allah, if you should be of the truthful.” He said, “My Lord, support me against the corrupting people.” And when Our messengers came to Abraham with the good tidings, they said, “Indeed, we will destroy the people of that Lot’s city. Indeed, its people have been wrongdoers.” [Abraham] said, “Indeed, within it is Lot.” They said, “We are more knowing of who is within it. We will surely save him and his family, except his wife. She is to be of those who remain behind.” (Ayat 28-32)

 

[MyM]

Nice dodge. Personally, I don't see any reason why I, or anyone else, should try to please a creator that allowed six million Jews to be murdered by the Nazis, and allows people to be murdered in cold blood and children to be raped, molested and murdered. The world is full of violence and moral corruption, and the God who created the world does nothing to stop the rampant violence and moral corruption that plagues the world. God is supposedly loving and merciful, and yet he does nothing to stop human suffering.

If God does exist, then he's viciously cruel and apathetic towards human suffering. Unlike devout theists, I don't blame the creation (mankind and/or the devil) for the moral depravity and violence in the world. I blame God, the creator, who has infinite power and infinite knowledge. According to scripture, God foreknew that his creation, mankind, would fall into moral depravity, but he created humanity anyway. If God exists, then he still has infinite power, and he could end human suffering in mere seconds, but he hasn't.

That is your opinion and your wish.


I believe that good comes to everyone and bad comes to everyone. Not all bad is good and not all good is bad. We don't know why Allah does things according to his ways. That's on him. But in Islam, he created us to worship Him in this life and he sent guidelines to do just that. If we transgress those guidelines, in Islam, we blame no one but ourselves.

 

[firedragon]

Man creates many religions. I'm not convinced these creations of man have anything to do with God.

Thats a whole different matter. Lets say you find flaws in all scripture, as a given. A fact. Still, that cannot deem the absence of a God. That is a whole different concept and subject.

Do you agree?

 

[sojourner]

When a man looks upon a woman with lust he has fornicated with her in his heart. Notice I did say attraction, not orientation.

A man looking upon a woman with lust isn’t homosexual attraction. It isn’t even particularly heterosexual attraction. Lust and attraction aren’t the same thing.

 

[sojourner]

I have gay friends and family. I don't put them down. I tell broken people about healing.

Be healed today in Jesus's Name!

Pray, what’s “broken” about someone whom the medical community has determined is not ill?

 

[sojourner]

Now, this was a commentary on behaviors he apparently observed in pagan temples, but there is just no wiggle room on this: the Bible condemns homosexuality as well as everyone who doesn't fall in line with male and female gender norms

This also doesn’t speak to homosexuality. It speaks to a particular act which, in that particular culture, was considered to be immoral. It says nothing about loving, mutual, and consensual relationships.

 

[Left Coast]

Remember the two angels that came in Lot's house. The men of the city young and old wanted Lot to bring them out so they can have sex with them. (They wanted to commit homosexual acts) on them and they were demanding that Lot turn them over to them and he even threatened Lot they would harm in worse if he didn't. So, homosexuality does have some say in the story of Lot from the Bible. It was indeed practiced heavily if the town wanted just these two men.

Gang raping an angel is not consensual sex between two humans of the same sex. Offering to let a mob gang rape your daughter is also not consensual sex between two humans of the same sex.

So no. This story has nothing to do with homosexuality.

Ezekiel mentions specifically what the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was. Do you know what it says? (Hint: it had nothing to do with gay sex.)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm following from @Vouthon's thread which seems to be going in a different direction.

I saw on there some folks saying that essentially homosexual kin should be let go of. I first would like to know how Christians accord this with 'forgive seventy times seven' and eating with sinners and so on, and second how could any person, in his heart, disown a brother or sister or whoever, or a friend, for this? One can disagree with the behaviour, or one can repudiate the person, but I don't think this is an issue like murder or rape, by any means. In every other area of his life he could be a stellar person, a model student, a great giver, a considerate worker, but you're going to kick him out because he fell in love with another boy?

Could you find it in yourself to disown someone over this? Some of your friends may be closeted, some may be out, some may be your brothers or sisters.

Is this the way forward? I disagree massively with what the LGBT movement has done and become and I do not own any of that. But that is not what I'm talking about.

I come at this from the opposite perspective: I can - and have - cut people out of my life who think that homosexuality is something that needs to be "forgiven."

These people can be acquaintances, and I'll be friendly with them at work and the like, but I can't consider someone a friend if they think that way about my other friends and loved ones.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you are looking for a straight answer, I will only tell you what the religions say.

The city of sodom and gomorah was completely destroyed....the Creator detested it. If you want someone to think you deserve the right to not be disowned, that is up to them. It's also between you and your Creator and you already know what that is.

If you think that the problem in a story about attempted same-sex gang rape is the "same-sex" part and not the "gang rape" part, you really need to do some soul-searching about how you lost your moral compass.

 

[leroy]

I'm following from @Vouthon's thread which seems to be going in a different direction.

I saw on there some folks saying that essentially homosexual kin should be let go of. I first would like to know how Christians accord this with 'forgive seventy times seven' and eating with sinners and so on, and second how could any person, in his heart, disown a brother or sister or whoever, or a friend, for this? One can disagree with the behaviour, or one can repudiate the person, but I don't think this is an issue like murder or rape, by any means. In every other area of his life he could be a stellar person, a model student, a great giver, a considerate worker, but you're going to kick him out because he fell in love with another boy?

Could you find it in yourself to disown someone over this? Some of your friends may be closeted, some may be out, some may be your brothers or sisters.

Is this the way forward? I disagree massively with what the LGBT movement has done and become and I do not own any of that. But that is not what I'm talking about.

The answer is simple, let go, love your gay friends and family, and allow God to do the judging.,…………….we are all sinners anyway so even if being Gay happens to be a sin, there wouldn’t be much difference between the average gay and the average heterosexual, we all sin anyway.

I should also comment on the fact that Gay people should be considered as alleys, in my opinion adoption is the best way to find abortion (which is a much more evil crime than being gay even from the point of view of a super homophobic person) ………..and the best way to promote adoption is by tolerating and accepting gay men and woman and recognizing their right to adopt.

In other words even if you are a “super-homophobic” conservative you should tolerate and promote the “gay movement” and avoid abortion by doing so.

 

[Psalm23]

I'm following from @Vouthon's thread which seems to be going in a different direction.

I saw on there some folks saying that essentially homosexual kin should be let go of. I first would like to know how Christians accord this with 'forgive seventy times seven' and eating with sinners and so on, and second how could any person, in his heart, disown a brother or sister or whoever, or a friend, for this? One can disagree with the behaviour, or one can repudiate the person, but I don't think this is an issue like murder or rape, by any means. In every other area of his life he could be a stellar person, a model student, a great giver, a considerate worker, but you're going to kick him out because he fell in love with another boy?

Could you find it in yourself to disown someone over this? Some of your friends may be closeted, some may be out, some may be your brothers or sisters.

Is this the way forward? I disagree massively with what the LGBT movement has done and become and I do not own any of that. But that is not what I'm talking about.

No, to disown someone because they're homosexual is just wrong and discriminating. Moreover if a church, a community, or family disowns a person for being homosexual, it teaches others in the church, community, or family to do the same. When people groups are treated differently, it encourages superiority thinking and bullying. Bullying can for an individual person lead to self loathing, depression and even self harm. Even worse , it can lead to a person to take their own life.

 

[MyM]

Gang raping an angel is not consensual sex between two humans of the same sex. Offering to let a mob gang rape your daughter is also not consensual sex between two humans of the same sex.

So no. This story has nothing to do with homosexuality.

Ezekiel mentions specifically what the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was. Do you know what it says? (Hint: it had nothing to do with gay sex.)

They were looking like ordinary men.

 

[MyM]

If you think that the problem in a story about attempted same-sex gang rape is the "same-sex" part and not the "gang rape" part, you really need to do some soul-searching about how you lost your moral compass.

lol why are you getting on me, I'm reading from the Christian Bible and also from the Quran.

 

[sojourner]

Sorry but yes it does in many places in the Bible. I put them in a thread I can't remember where but if you want, I can post the places.

I know all about the “clobber texts.” None of them — none — address homosexuality. They address same sex acts, and they address sins such as lust, but not One. Single. One of them addresses either same-sex loving, committed, and consensual relationships, or sexual orientation.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

lol why are you getting on me, I'm reading from the Christian Bible and also from the Quran.

Is that so? Please, then: give the Bible and Quran verses that say gang rape is okay.

Edit: and that aside, the defense of "my bigoted, immoral position is unoriginal" is a fair way off from "my position isn't bigoted or immoral."