Honest Discussion By A Pro-Gun Advocate On Firearm Laws

[esmith]

It’s unreasonable to expect me to have details like that, and frankly, I don’t see the relevance. I leave that to people more qualified.

But I know that training people is a common, normal process, and I know that having certified instructors is as well.

For example, I had to take a class and log so many hours to become a Water Safety Instructor so I could teach swim lessons.

I would think your experience would make you an excellent candidate for an instructor, after passing a class on how to teach the required material.

Oh, I forgot I was an instructor at military schools.
Now according to you I am a qualified instructor to teach firearm safety.
Anyone disagree?

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh, I forgot I was an instructor at military schools.
Now according to you I am a qualified instructor to teach firearm safety.
Anyone disagree?

There's still the swimsuit qualification.
You must be at least as good looking as R Lee Ermey.

 

[pearl]

Understand, you don't have a clue what you are talking about

Auto accidents are not known for deliberately murdering large numbers of victims at one time in a confined area easy targets. All the gun safety training in the world would not prevent these.

 

[esmith]

There's still the swimsuit qualification.
You must be at least as good looking as R Lee Ermey.

Close but no cigar.....

 

[averageJOE]

Oh, I forgot I was an instructor at military schools.
Now according to you I am a qualified instructor to teach firearm safety.
Anyone disagree?

From one vet to another...No. You're not automatically qualified.

Military training is for military personal in a military/combat environment. This would be civilian training in a civilian environment.

 

[esmith]

From one vet to another...No. You're not automatically qualified.

Military training is for military personal in a military/combat environment. This would be civilian training in a civilian environment.

Didn't say that my military experience was the only experience. However, firearm safety is firearm safety whether in the military of civilian world. Or are military personnel less safety orientated than civilians? Think about it before you answer.
In addition I did not say that my military experience was the only experience, see post #157. The reason I mentioned being an instructor was due to @Falvlun comment that I would need "how to teach the material". Take any material, write a lesson plan and present it, as required in IT school..

 

[tytlyf]

Didn't say that my military experience was the only experience. However, firearm safety is firearm safety whether in the military of civilian world. Or are military personnel less safety orientated than civilians? Think about it before you answer.
In addition I did not say that my military experience was the only experience, see post #157. The reason I mentioned being an instructor was due to @Falvlun comment that I would need "how to teach the material". Take any material, write a lesson plan and present it, as required in IT school..

So you're in favor of mental illnesses being barred from owning a weapon right? PTSD included. PTSD should be priority #1 given the suicide rate of veterans. Do you care about that?

 

[Falvlun]

Oh, I forgot I was an instructor at military schools.
Now according to you I am a qualified instructor to teach firearm safety.
Anyone disagree?

Possibly, along with review of the material required for civilian classes.

I’ve stated before that I think these classes need to be standardized. Same material across the board. So, it’s not enough that someone is well experienced and knowledgeable about firearms. They need to know the standardized curriculum being taught.

 

[esmith]

Possibly, along with review of the material required for civilian classes.

I’ve stated before that I think these classes need to be standardized. Same material across the board. So, it’s not enough that someone is well experienced and knowledgeable about firearms. They need to know the standardized curriculum being taught.

All someone( don't have a clue who though) would have to do is produce a gouge sheet that provides the points that have to be covered and the instructor would take those and create a lesson plan. That is one of the requirements to being an instructor in the military, you know, being proficient in ones assigned duties.

 

[Falvlun]

All someone( don't have a clue who though) would have to do is produce a gouge sheet that provides the points that have to be covered and the instructor would take those and create a lesson plan. That is one of the requirements to being an instructor in the military, you know, being proficient in ones assigned duties.

So, great! We can have certified firearms instructors to teach our firearm training classes!

 

[Revoltingest]

So, great! We can have certified firearms instructors to teach our firearm training classes!

The standards taught should be uniform, & tailored to the application.
A friend had some very advanced handgun training by a famous &
well respected school. But what he learned strikes me as highly
inappropriate for most people. It stressed speed & accuracy over
safety & accident prevention. I'm glad this friend does not carry.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That is not the point I was making.
How many people are killed in the US every year due to automobile accidents?

About 30,000 per year, IIRC. About the same as the number of firearm deaths in the US each year.

The difference, though, is in exposure: Americans drive a lot. Even a competitive shooter or an avid hunter doesn't spend as much time using firearms as they do driving, typically.

How many of those drivers that were involved in any accident let alone deadly accidents have had drivers training?

All or most.

What would the death rate be if they had had no training?

The point is that having gone through training at one time does not prevent a person from having an accident. The same would exist for requiring someone to have firearm safety training prior to purchasing a firearm....it will not prevent accidents.

Training isn't about absolutely preventing accidents; it's about reducing the risk of accidents.

You can see this in insurance rates: the cost of your compulsory insurance goes down if you take proper training, because the insurance company recognizes that you've lowered your risk of a claim. Your risk still isn't zero, but it's lower than it would have been.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The standards taught should be uniform, & tailored to the application.
A friend had some very advanced handgun training by a famous &
well respected school. But what he learned strikes me as highly
inappropriate for most people. It stressed speed & accuracy over
safety & accident prevention. I'm glad this friend does not carry.

Much like driver training: here, you can progress through the graduated licensing levels quicker if you take approved driver training... but a racing school at your local track doesn't count.

 

[Falvlun]

The standards taught should be uniform, & tailored to the application.
A friend had some very advanced handgun training by a famous &
well respected school. But what he learned strikes me as highly
inappropriate for most people. It stressed speed & accuracy over
safety & accident prevention. I'm glad this friend does not carry.

I agree, as I stated in a previous post:

Possibly, along with review of the material required for civilian classes.

I’ve stated before that I think these classes need to be standardized. Same material across the board. So, it’s not enough that someone is well experienced and knowledgeable about firearms. They need to know the standardized curriculum being taught.

I’m not really sure what @esmith’s issue is. He really seems to dislike the idea of needing firearm instructors that are trained to teach the required material.

 

[esmith]

I’m not really sure what @esmith’s issue is. He really seems to dislike the idea of needing firearm instructors that are trained to teach the required material.

I don't know where you got that idea, maybe you don't understand how a course of instruction is constructed.

 

[Revoltingest]

I’m not really sure what @esmith’s issue is. He really seems to dislike the idea of needing firearm instructors that are trained to teach the required material.

He's sometimes inscrutable, but almost always informative.

 

[esmith]

He's sometimes inscrutable, but almost always informative.

Me inscrutable? Nah, just bull-headed.

 

[Falvlun]

I don't know where you got that idea, maybe you don't understand how a course of instruction is constructed.

Because you’ve been fighting the idea of a certified firearm instructor teaching a standardized training class from the get go.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Can anyone explain why a law abiding citizen needs a firearm that can hold a hundred bullets and fire them all in about one second? They are not needed for deer hunting or target practice or self defense, are they? If you just like the way they look, get one that looks that way but holds five rounds that have to be fired one at a time. Seriously, any good reason why these weapons that fire many rounds in a short time are really needed? Notice, needed, not just liked or wanted.

 

[esmith]

Because you’ve been fighting the idea of a certified firearm instructor teaching a standardized training class from the get go.

Please quote the post/s that you are saying that I have been fighting the idea of a certified firearm instructor if you would please. It is very possible I said one thing and you understood something else.