Honest opinions from Christians please

[DallasApple]

I don't think I ever said I never expected an honest opinion Charity. The question I pose is to make one think and question why they believe what they believe. If you have done so and have an answer, please share it.

edit: I did say at one point I didn't really expect answers...because of the answers I was getting so far weren't really even addressing the question but the examples instead. I didn't mean that anyone wouldn't answer or not be honest.

Im not insulted by your question..At all.I ask myself the same one all the time.

Im "offended" at someone who would say all Christians are "dishonest" or lying..??

Thats not fair..We are all growing and learning.All of us.Hopefully progressing towards something positive.Not oppressive towards others.And we can make mistakes ..and we do..

Love

Dallas

 

[Draka]

I was only teasing due to the fact that most people believe that most Christians beliefs are are false anyway. So I wouldn't be giving an honest opinion to most people no matter what I tried and then when it comes to personal experience I could produce no proof to anyone so again it would be considered a myth. I'm more into fun anyway Draka you know that, my day isn't complete if I can't have some fun and let some of my cares leave me for a while.....
Part of my belief came as a child before I ever really knew much about Church, but it was enough to convince me to believe as I do today.....

Well I, unlike some others, do accept personal experiences as reasons for believing a certain way. I wouldn't believe what I believe if I had not had the spiritual experiences I have had.

 

[ChristineES]

The whole Bible is not allegorical, I never said such a thing. The stories of the creation and Adam and Eve fit the criteria for symbolism, while stories about King David and such fit the criteria for personal accounts or a biography, which is my personal criteria before you say anything. I can tell the difference between a biography about Bill Clinton and a fiction work about Harry Potter. Remember, the Bible is NOT one book, but many, many books. That is the whole problem, people treat it as one book.
If you want to prove that Christians are ignorant, I don't want to participate. This is the last thing I will say in this particular thread.
(I am not angry or even offended but I know when I can't win and I am not interesting in winning).

 

[DallasApple]

Yes DA I'm wearing jeans, tight ones at that. Well at least you have customers, something to be happy about.....
Like I said most people don't put a lot of stock into what a "Christian" says not because we aren't honest but because it has to become a point to be disproved.

No one can "disprove me"..:no:

And Im not a "point" either..No more than anyone else is a "point" that can be "disproved".

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Well I, unlike some others, do accept personal experiences as reasons for believing a certain way. I wouldn't believe what I believe if I had not had the spiritual experiences I have had.

I think its more about "identyfying" with what is written long long ago.Litteral or symbolic.


And yes..that is personal.

Love

Dallas

 

[Charity]

Well I, unlike some others, do accept personal experiences as reasons for believing a certain way. I wouldn't believe what I believe if I had not had the spiritual experiences I have had.

Thanks Draka, I appreciate your response on personal experience. I have spoken of it a couple of times and once gave a short explanation only to have been treated like Alice in Wonderland. How can anyone tell you that your experience wasn't real? I wasn't eating any mushrooms or smoking a joint so I know it was not a hallucination. My experience was both visual and auditory and it's as real to me today as it was when it happened......

 

[IF_u_knew]

I'll be honest and I have no problem being so since my life has been deeply impacted outside of my control by a religion I do not buy into (considering many of the decisions that were made by our last President based on a god that the Tanakh.. or in my opinion, the whole of the Bible save some of the last part.. does not promote).

I think that Christians are dishonest in answering questions; either that or they bypass the questions with cutsie remarks, and I personally take this seriously. It would be one thing if their dogmatic beliefs were kept among themselves, but they are not... they are forced upon many of us in America (via morals and dogmatic views.. or had you not noticed?). The following is a series of videos that were put together in a beautiful manner, and though I know G.d exists and this person does not, it still does not negate the validity of his premise.

The one thing that I do not agree with is that it is not a laughable matter. It is anything but laughable to me when reason is thrown out thus negating the validity of G.d's Word to so many and imposing self righteous beliefs on others. I speak to Christianity as a whole and not to any individual here. These are merely my reasons for concern and cause to call out those getting offended that anyone would dare question their beliefs.. when it affects more than just those with the beliefs, it leaves the rest of us the right to question.

YouTube - Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 1)

 

[DallasApple]

I'll be honest and I have no problem being so since my life has been deeply impacted outside of my control by a religion I do not buy into (considering many of the decisions that were made by our last President based on a god that the Tanakh.. or in my opinion, the whole of the Bible save some of the last part.. does not promote).

I think that Christians are dishonest in answering questions; either that or they bypass the questions with cutsie remarks, and I personally take this seriously. It would be one thing if their dogmatic beliefs were kept among themselves, but they are not... they are forced upon many of us in America (via morals and dogmatic views.. or had you not noticed?). The following is a series of videos that were put together in a beautiful manner, and though I know G.d exists and this person does not, it still does not negate the validity of his premise.

The one thing that I do not agree with is that it is not a laughable matter. It is anything but laughable to me when reason is thrown out thus negating the validity of G.d's Word to so many and imposing self righteous beliefs on others. I speak to Christianity as a whole and not to any individual here. These are merely my reasons for concern and cause to call out those getting offended that anyone would dare question their beliefs.. when it affects more than just those with the beliefs, it leaves the rest of us the right to question.

YouTube - Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 1)

So you have one dude..on a video tape saying the Grand Canyon could have been created in 5 minutes?

And by the way that tape was rediculous.They just kept repeating .That wasnt informative at all.Except we know one little dude is delusional.

Love

DAllas

 

[IF_u_knew]

So you have one dude..on a video tape saying the Grand Canyon could have been created in 5 minutes?

And by the way that tape was rediculous.They just kept repeating .That wasnt informative at all.Except we know one little dude is delusional.

Love

DAllas

Oh no! Please, I encourage you to indulge yourself in the whole series. You can figure out how to connect to part 2 (and so on.. it is a little over 20 videos long) by using the side menu. It gets better, trust me.

 

[DallasApple]

Oh no! Please, I encourage you to indulge yourself in the whole series. You can figure out how to connect to part 2 (and so on.. it is a little over 20 videos long) by using the side menu. It gets better, trust me.

Why would I do that?

I thought you said it wasnt funny?

I dont like to laugh at delusional people.Especially if I have no way to help them.

I have NO doubt there are delusional people in the world.Many of them.Just walk down skid row.

Love

Dallas

 

[IF_u_knew]

Why would I do that?

I thought you said it wasnt funny?

I dont like to laugh at delusional people.Especially if I have no way to help them.

I have NO doubt there are delusional people in the world.Many of them.Just walk down skid row.

Love

Dallas

Why would you not? I said it was not funny, true. I just posted the videos since this person took the time to show not only why the Christian's theory of a literal 6 day creation is false, but also to show the dangerous behaviors displayed by many who hold to such dogmatisms. Certainly you do not have to watch. It is an option, of course. I found it quite interesting and I learned much from the videos. Why would anyone bypass an opportunity to learn? But still... I would not dare to say you have to watch. :no:

 

[DallasApple]

Why would you not? I said it was not funny, true. I just posted the videos since this person took the time to show not only why the Christian's theory of a literal 6 day creation is false, but also to show the dangerous behaviors displayed by many who hold to such dogmatisms.

But if I already realize it..Why would I keep watching it?Thats like me saying.."some people rape children"(NOT THAT they ARE THE sAME )I realized thatI kept watching video after video..and account after account of it..Even though I could do nothing to stop it by whatching the videos.

Why would I need to be "more convinced"?

What is your point unless you are "rejoicing" in it?

Love

Dallas

 

[IF_u_knew]

But if I already realize it..Why would I keep watching it?Thats like me saying.."some people rape children"(NOT THAT they ARE THE sAME )I realized thatI kept watching video after video..and account after account of it..Even though I could do nothing to stop it by whatching the videos.

Why would I need to be "more convinced"?

What is your point unless you are "rejoicing" in it?

Love

Dallas

I think you are mistaking my posting this video as being a direct attack against you.. perhaps? If so, then you are indeed mistaken. Why would I rejoice by the fact that rules are being implemented into my life and the lives of my sons based on dogmatic religious views? Trust me, there is no victory for me and certainly not a victory for the Truth; at least not yet. I simply posted the videos as I agree with the content. I also did not post them to rub into any one's face. Regardless of what side you rest on, there is still something to be learned from the videos, so watching them is certainly not a waste of time. Watching.. sheesh, I do not even know the television programs that come on these days.. but well, watching many of the mind numbing shows on television is more of a waste of time and yet hardly anyone argues watching a t.v. program recommended to them. Why argue watching informative videos? If you don't want to watch, then don't. No need to assume I meant it personally as an attack against you and your beliefs.

My main reason for posting:
1. Concerns the topic at hand
2. Great opportunity to learn things one might not know before hand

 

[my opinion]

I don't believe the Earth is 6,000 years old and that the creation story is symbolic, I don't know about the flood- it may have been regional and there is a chance that it is symbolic, too, and I don't know of any Christians who believe that the sun goes up and down. That last one was kind of insulting, do you really believe that Christians think the world is flat?

This highlights my point exactly! You know of no Christians who believe that the sun goes up and down because we now have scientific instruments that show you with your eyes own that this is false. However, it was a truth in the bible... before it could be disproved that is...

And as far as bringing in the argument of the world being flat...which you have done, not me... looking through history books will show you the biggest fear of the Christian population only a few hundred years ago was that Columbus would fall off the earth during his expedition...so I would say that the flat earth theory was indeed a very popular Christian belief... It is only a ridiculous statement now that science has proved it false.

 

[my opinion]

I won't even try to answer because no one expects an honest opinion from a Christian anyway..........

Although our beliefs differ from one another there are loving, honest Christians all over the world..I don't think insults help anyone and only discredits anything valid you might have to say.

 

[IF_u_knew]

This highlights my point exactly! You know of no Christians who believe that the sun goes up and down because we now have scientific instruments that show you with your eyes own that this is false. However, it was a truth in the bible... before it could be disproved that is...

And as far as bringing in the argument of the world being flat...which you have done, not me... looking through history books will show you the biggest fear of the Christian population only a few hundred years ago was that Columbus would fall off the earth during his expedition...so I would say that the flat earth theory was indeed a very popular Christian belief... It is only a ridiculous statement now that science has proved it false.

If we are to be realistic, then we must point out that it was NOT ONLY Christians who had this view of the earth. The problem is when something can be shown to be wrong or right and someone refuses to look at the reality of the situation. This is not isolated to Christians, ya know. Though I bite hard with Christianity, this is mainly because having grown up in it, I understand how difficult it can be to let go of that particular security blanket. But security blankets are not isolated only to Christians. Just because the stories in the Tanakh are not necessarily to be taken literally does not negate that so many bypass the Truth behind the words just because they want to be right. There are extremes within every angle of the issue. The key is to find out what the Truth is, is it not? The Tanakh quite clearly supports the evolutionary process and to say it does not because of the account given in Genesis is to be just as misguided because it means that you to are failing to see it for what it is. Truth is truth regardless of if you try to understand it or not.. but lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater please.

 

[my opinion]

I agree wholeheartedly that Christians were not the only one with this view, however, Christians were the ones being guided by the word of god via the bible, which gives them an architectural description of the foundations of the earth, which lead them to believe the earth was indeed flat.

Many posters keep ramming home that science cannot prove spiritual matters, I have dropped 2 of my original examples because people have brought in hypotheticals, such as a year in gods time may not be a year in our time, therefore we cannot argue the age of mankind because of this well placed hypothetical.
But, the majority of Christians, contrary to a few here, do believe the flood to be a physical event and would therefore have leave some physical evidence.

According to his peers Reverend, yes Reverend Sedgewick is one of the greatest geologists of all time, and he was the staunchest advocates of the global flood and according to his diluvian theory had finally proved this beyond doubt. Several years later he made a public address recanting this theory. That is the closest we have ever come to proving a global flood, and that was a long time ago.

We are not looking for a needle in a haystack. We are talking about a catastrophic event that devastated the earth, there should be some evidence somewhere.

It keeps getting quoted that many other cultures talk about the great flood and therefore must be proof. The way I remember it, Noah had all surviving life on the Ark. So how did these other cultures witness, survive and write about a flood that was designed to devastate them.

Again this is not a spiritual argument, this is a physical event of major proportions and should provide some physical evidence.

 

[IF_u_knew]

I agree wholeheartedly that Christians were not the only one with this view, however, Christians were the ones being guided by the word of god via the bible, which gives them an architectural description of the foundations of the earth, which lead them to believe the earth was indeed flat.

Many posters keep ramming home that science cannot prove spiritual matters, I have dropped 2 of my original examples because people have brought in hypotheticals, such as a year in gods time may not be a year in our time, therefore we cannot argue the age of mankind because of this well placed hypothetical.
But, the majority of Christians, contrary to a few here, do believe the flood to be a physical event and would therefore have leave some physical evidence.

According to his peers Reverend, yes Reverend Sedgewick is one of the greatest geologists of all time, and he was the staunchest advocates of the global flood and according to his diluvian theory had finally proved this beyond doubt. Several years later he made a public address recanting this theory. That is the closest we have ever come to proving a global flood, and that was a long time ago.

We are not looking for a needle in a haystack. We are talking about a catastrophic event that devastated the earth, there should be some evidence somewhere.

It keeps getting quoted that many other cultures talk about the great flood and therefore must be proof. The way I remember it, Noah had all surviving life on the Ark. So how did these other cultures witness, survive and write about a flood that was designed to devastate them.

Again this is not a spiritual argument, this is a physical event of major proportions and should provide some physical evidence.

Thank you for understanding the nature of my post. I do not disagree with your points in the least. I used to believe in the 6 day creation as being literal (but only up to a certain point.. that point being the age where I could question such contradictions), and there came a point that I had to be honest with myself.. either it was talking about something deeper or I would have to throw out the Bible altogether. I actually did the latter before I was brought back to the Tanakh via understanding the former is quite the Truth; more so than I could ever argue with. As I have stated either here or elsewhere (can't remember), it was actually the Tanakh (the old testament) where I saw that the evolutionary process was in fact supported and I once and for all could feel free to trust the Tanakh and at the same time feel encouraged to use rational thinking. A whole new understanding has opened up to me since. :yes:

However, this is my experience and if one can only see things in there as contradictions, seeing that walking away from the Bible changed my perspective, I have no problem encouraging others to follow the path they feel is right as long as they maintain their honesty... being a hypocrite is more tasteless than not believing the Bible in my opinion.

 

[Comet]

We'll try again then....

How do you continue to believe and have faith in the bible when it is rife with misinformation, misleading and at times outright lies. My examples are:
Mankind is around 4000-6000 years old. Science has proven beyond any doubt that we are at least 60, 000 years old for homo-sapiens, then we have all of the other variations of man prior.

Your question is of the BIBLE. I think you will find most Christians do not take it as literally as the fundamentalist Christians do. Most Christians do not believe that so and so lived 300+ years, thus most do not believe your rational that the earth is so young.

Many christians also believe in science and what it says, as this does not go against how they interpret the Bible. While most take the Bible as the word of God, most also believe that many things in it are figurative.

If God created the world in 6 days, what is a day to God... one that is beyond time? Your assumption by adding up ages that people were claimed to be is obviously off. Ask a non-Fundamental and they will tell you that people back then and now do not use the same time, distance, measurements, etc... Who uses a cubit any more? What was a "year" to those that lived back in the days of cubits?

Noah's flood was global. It was regional! Sediment layers, ice cores and many many other facts provea global flood as incorrect.

There is evidence of a global flood, there is also evidence against it. It matters on what you choose to believe. It is like asking how the dinosaurs died? Evidence for this and that exist, what do you believe.

Speaking of dinosaurs, I think you will only find that Fundamentalists Christians would choose to believe that Satan put them here to confuse us. Many Christians have no problem believing that they were here before God created Adam.

Besides, if you believe all humans came out of Africa via evolution... then at one time we were all together. A regional flood of mass proportions (such as the making of the Mediteranean Sea), would have been viewed as a world wide event; as that was the known world. For many, many centuries (to most people) the world was only what they could see. The world was flat indeed.

The sun goes up and down. The earth orbit the sun and may give this appearance to assuming people- but if the bible was the word of god then this literary error would not have occurred.
If the bible really and truly is the word of god, how did these very fundamental facts get so wrong? There are literally hundreds more, but I use these 3 are they have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

If you are referrring to Ecclesiates here, you must also know that these are the words of man. If you refer to another passage in the Bible, then please list them. I can only assume you quote Ecclesiates 1: 5. That is the only passage I know of that you refer to. (again if there are others, please list them)

These are the words, as clearly stated in Ecclesiastes 1: 1, of a man. The preacher, the son of David. He is speaking of vanity when he speaks of such things. He also makes his intent clear that what you quote is "the business of men" and that the "sun goes up and down" under heaven. Again he then refers to all this and the everything men behold as vanity. Please read Ecclesiastes 1: 12-14

Either way, it is stated that these were the words of a man, listed above.... not of God.

You said you had hundreds of examples of follies in the Bible, please list them or retort to my comments that address your OP.

 

[CaptainBritain]

Well said Comet, Im going to like you I know it, I can only add that we do not know the date of the flood, and to my mind the language of the Bible does state that the flood was global not local, however the statement earlier that there is not enough water on the earth to achieve such a thing is false, there is enough water, depending upon the nature of ones theology the flood ie main event last forty days but the waters took a year or so to go back to normal, as we do not know the date we cannot know the geography.

To add a bit more, maybe the Sun does go up and down under heaven, there is also many warnings in the bible that man should not worship the Sun, and i guess one could view it that way too.

And to add a little bit more, God is all powerfull, why would it take God six days to create the universe, he could just as easily create it all in 32 seconds or any other length of time, the significance of six days and rest on the seventh is to give man a template, there is no real logical reason to have a seven day week, seven is also an important running number in the history of Israel, two severn day wars for a start (jericho and the more recent) but there is plenty more.

There is more to the Bible than meets the eye.