Honest opinions from Christians please

[Ghostkill221]

Question 1: 6000 years: this takes into account that everything was created in seven days and within 2000 years the flood happened and about 1000 years later egypt was around. the 60000 years of evolutionist ideology refers to homo inferior's like cavemen, and supposed java men which would be skipped if man was created instantly.

Question 2: global flood. 2 things first of all did you know that in almost every country the natives have a tale of the flood this makes it seem global. second in the bible it says the water came from above and below. this means that if there was subterrainian water it would have seeped up too. this process would make thecore samples and sediment layers uneven.

Question 3 that line was taken from a line of poetry from a common hebrew poem at the time. it is somewhat alike me quoting a movie reference. and furthermore. you cannot relly expect that a an observation means that i am denying a scientific fact. when i swing a ball on a string around i'm actually swinging it in a innumerable number of straight lines (centrifugal force vs Centrepital force) doesn't make me incorrect

 

[Jose Fly]

the statement earlier that there is not enough water on the earth to achieve such a thing is false, there is enough water

No. The water that's here is already at its lowest point.

Do this simple test: Take a pan half-full of water and put a rock in it that's as tall as the top of the pan. Now try and cover the rock with water without adding any additional water.

 

[Jose Fly]

everything was created in seven days and within 2000 years the flood happened and about 1000 years later egypt was around

Except Egyptians have written records extending much farther back than that. Oops.

in the bible it says the water came from above and below. this means that if there was subterrainian water it would have seeped up too

No, that water was already at its lowest point (see above).

 

[Scott C.]

I ask these questions as I am truly perplexed, not having a go at you.

How do you continue to believe and have faith in the bible when it is rife with misinformation, misleading and at times outright lies. My examples are:
Mankind is around 4000-6000 years old. Science has proven beyond any doubt that we are at least 60, 000 years old for homo-sapiens, then we have all of the other variations of man prior.

Noah's flood was global. It was regional! Sediment layers, ice cores and many many other facts provea global flood as incorrect.

The sun goes up and down. The earth orbit the sun and may give this appearance to assuming people- but if the bible was the word of god then this literary error would not have occurred.
If the bible really and truly is the word of god, how did these very fundamental facts get so wrong? There are literally hundreds more, but I use these 3 are they have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I can roughly categorize my belief in religious doctrine into 2 categories

1) Those convictions which have come to me as inspiration/revelation from God and from profound personal experience. These ideas are "written in my bones" and I hold them to be non-negotiable. Included are things such as God lives, Jesus is the Christ, the Bible and other LDS scriptures are the word of God, living prophets are on the earth today, LDS temples are sacred houses of God, we are blessed when we make the necessary personal sacrifices to conform our lives to the teachings and wishes of the Lord. I consider these ideas to be the most important to my spritual growth, happiness, and eventual salvation. I consider that God holds me accountable for how I believe, speak, and act in regard to these doctrines.

2) Doctrinal beliefs that are based on what seems reasonable to me based on what I have been taught, what I have read from the scriptures, what I have read in other books, and my personal contemplation. These beliefs are not as profound to me, as I have not had a personal witness one way or the other. I might change these beliefs somewhat from time to time as more information is made available. I don't consider that God holds me accountable one way or the other for these beliefs. I include in this category ideas such as how long it took God to create the world and what role, if any, evolution played in that process.

If scientific evidence contradicts something I believe in category 2, I'm cautious before I change my belief. Just as my scriptural interpretation might be wrong, so scientific theory might be wrong.

But, regardless of scientific ideas that come and stay or come and go, none of this affects my beliefs regarding the doctrines in category one. Those are the doctrines that are based on profound and deep personal experience, inspiration, and the Holy Spirit and provide the basis for how I view the world, set my priorities, and live my life.

 

[Comet]

I forgot to add that in relevance to the galactic plane, the sun does go up and down...

 

[CaptainBritain]

No. The water that's here is already at its lowest point.

Do this simple test: Take a pan half-full of water and put a rock in it that's as tall as the top of the pan. Now try and cover the rock with water without adding any additional water.

Ocean trenches, fissures in the earths crust making boiling seas creating wild weather systems (one of the theories), God flooded the whole planet but not all exactly in the same second, hour or day.
It took forty days and a year to drain, there is enough water.

 

[CaptainBritain]

Except Egyptians have written records extending much farther back than that. Oops.


No, that water was already at its lowest point (see above).

Evidence?

 

[Jose Fly]

CaptainBritain,

Ocean trenches, fissures in the earths crust making boiling seas creating wild weather systems (one of the theories), God flooded the whole planet but not all exactly in the same second, hour or day.
It took forty days and a year to drain, there is enough water.

You completely and totally avoided the point and merely restated your assertion. EDIT: Water has to have somewhere to "drain" to. If the earth was already completely covered in water, where did it drain to?

Regarding Egypt, Ghostkill's timeline would put Egypt not arising until ~1000 BCE. Egyptian history goes back at least 2100 years prior.

 

[CaptainBritain]

CaptainBritain,

You completely and totally avoided the point and merely restated your assertion. EDIT: Water has to have somewhere to "drain" to. If the earth was already completely covered in water, where did it drain to?

Regarding Egypt, Ghostkill's timeline would put Egypt not arising until ~1000 BCE. Egyptian history goes back at least 2100 years prior.

The whole planet was never fully covered at exactly the same time, but over forty days the whole world saw flood, ie and to repeat the who world was not covered in a seemless pond of water, flood waters move, these flood waters moved via the hand of God and the whole land was flooded, not all exactly at the same time but over forty days.

As to your link I will read it but I will have to do it next evening as bed is a calling me, is it ok to quiz you on the facts of the link should I need too?

 

[Jose Fly]

CaptainBritain,

The whole planet was never fully covered at exactly the same time, but over forty days the whole world saw flood

Where did that assertion come from? The Bible? If so, where?

these flood waters moved via the hand of God

Ah, "Goddidit". Thus, there is no need to discuss further. Gods, by definition, can do anything including making something happen one way, but making it appear to have happened a completely different way. Are you familiar with "Last Thursdayism"?

is it ok to quiz you on the facts of the link should I need too?

Sure.

 

[my opinion]

Question 1: 6000 years: this takes into account that everything was created in seven days and within 2000 years the flood happened and about 1000 years later egypt was around. the 60000 years of evolutionist ideology refers to homo inferior's like cavemen, and supposed java men which would be skipped if man was created instantly.

Wrong! Your facts are totally incorrect. 60,000 years refers to homosapiens- which is our species right now- where do you get your information? And the reason it is capped at 60 000 years is because that is the scope of carbon dating at present. It cannot accurately date beyond 60 000. If you wish to talk about homo erectus and neanderthals you can add several 100,000 years.

Question 2: global flood. 2 things first of all did you know that in almost every country the natives have a tale of the flood this makes it seem global. second in the bible it says the water came from above and below. this means that if there was subterrainian water it would have seeped up too. this process would make thecore samples and sediment layers uneven.

Yes I am aware of this. So tell me..if the account in the bible is true and Noah had all surviving species on board the Ark, then how did all of these all cultures survive to tell the story?
A global flood is a global flood..there is no mention in the bible about subterranean
seepage. Geology does not support global flooding or seepage no matter what way you look at it.

Not to mention how Noah, in just seven days, got a hold of all of the species we see today. Count up all of the species currently on earth, remembering that many species have since become extinct, and Noah would be loading each species in just seconds. I can't get my dog in the car in that time let alone a wild tiger, elephant, wooly mammoth.

 

[CaptainBritain]

CaptainBritain,

Where did that assertion come from? The Bible? If so, where?

Ah, "Goddidit". Thus, there is no need to discuss further. Gods, by definition, can do anything including making something happen one way, but making it appear to have happened a completely different way. Are you familiar with "Last Thursdayism"?


Sure.

Go to biblegateway and re-read Genesis 6 7 8 (just for me), the language could be taken in other ways but by my reckoning im roughly right in its meaning,

It also says that God did it.

Im willing to declare ignorance on last thursdayism and will gladly be informed.

Now if we want to talk evidence, we could be here a long time as we both have access to the same evidence but reach differing conclusions upon it but im happy to chew the fat on the subject, im starting to like you.

Will be back on the Egypt stuff, must turn in or i will not get up for work,
Cheers for tonight though.

 

[Comet]

So tell me..if the account in the bible is true and Noah had all surviving species on board the Ark, then how did all of these all cultures survive to tell the story?

If you believe the Bible's account, then all the different cultures are descended from Noah's family; thus, they all share the same flood story that was no doubt changed here and there by it passing down from generation to generation. Simple explantion with no assumptions made beyond common sence.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm thinking that Ghostkill and FFH ought to team up.

 

[challupa]

I'm thinking that Ghostkill and FFH ought to team up.

And I'm thinking your right!:yes:

 

[McBell]

I ask these questions as I am truly perplexed, not having a go at you.

How do you continue to believe and have faith in the bible when it is rife with misinformation, misleading and at times outright lies. My examples are:
Mankind is around 4000-6000 years old. Science has proven beyond any doubt that we are at least 60, 000 years old for homo-sapiens, then we have all of the other variations of man prior.

Noah's flood was global. It was regional! Sediment layers, ice cores and many many other facts provea global flood as incorrect.

The sun goes up and down. The earth orbit the sun and may give this appearance to assuming people- but if the bible was the word of god then this literary error would not have occurred.
If the bible really and truly is the word of god, how did these very fundamental facts get so wrong? There are literally hundreds more, but I use these 3 are they have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Seems to me that one way is to merely ignore what you do not like.
How does this work?
I have no idea.
However, I do know that all you needs do is visit one of the many threads on creation vs evolution or this thread to see it in action.

 

[challupa]

Seems to me that one way is to merely ignore what you do not like.
How does this work?
I have no idea.
However, I do know that all you needs do is visit one of the many threads on creation vs evolution or this thread to see it in action.

Jeez. Mestemia, I must be psychic cause I knew which thread that was without even looking. I guess I'd better get over to the psychics thread and let them know huh!

 

[Comet]

Seems to me that one way is to merely ignore what you do not like.
How does this work?
I have no idea.
However, I do know that all you needs do is visit one of the many threads on creation vs evolution or this thread to see it in action.

I'd settle for knowing why arguement #3 has been dropped completely it now seems and why my points are not addressed yet....???

 

[McBell]

I'd settle for knowing why arguement #3 has been dropped completely it now seems and why my points are not addressed yet....???

Argument #3?
In which thread?
Link please.

 

[Comet]

link is here, #3 point of the OP....