Honor Killings. Why is Islam the main culprit?

[sooda]

These problems aren't just rural Afghanistan, but urban Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Egypt. They've also crep to the homefront of western society, and several of their practices are simply unacceptable here. Those mostly coming here leave it behind, but there is recruiting here for those who want us dead, and sometimes they do get here with the intent of attacking us. War is not the appropriate response, but we can't ignore the fact the problems do occasionally get brought to our doorstep.

When did this happen in Arabia?

 

[Raymann]

When did this happen in Arabia?

Do you really think this doesn't happen in Saudi Arabia?
Think again.

 

[sooda]

Do you really think this doesn't happen in Saudi Arabia?
Think again.

Are you claiming she has been killed?

 

[stvdv]

It seems to me that the person who wrote the article only had very flimsy reasons that Islam should be left out of the discussion regarding "honor killings." Which, to me, says something. I honestly don't know how much Islam or Islamic-based culture is invested in honor killings more or less than any other... but based on the content of this article, I would feel compelled to guess that someone was trying to excuse something they know is a problem by pointing fingers everywhere and anywhere else... it reads like desperation, honestly.

Good point I think.

In my country I only read about honor killings as in related to Islam. Never related to Christianity.

Usually where there is smoke there is fire. There just seems to be a fair amount of smoke in Islam. Christianity had to face the smoke of "priests and little children sex". Islam has to face the smoke of honor killings

 

[stvdv]

Is it ignorance?
Is it cultural?
Is it Islam or Islamic culture?

In my country honor killings is mainly due to Islam. There are only 10% Muslims, but they do 94% of the honor killings according to below article (which seems to be true, as I only read about it in relation to Islam)

Last year, 17 people in the Netherlands died in honour killings (update) - DutchNews.nl

 

[Raymann]

Are you claiming she has been killed?

No is not me saying it.
As you can read at 01:34 of the video transcript, she states that if the video goes public she is either dead or in prison.

00:36
This is Amna Aljuaid, a Saudi Arabian girl who tried to flee the country in an attempt to escape a physically and emotionally
00:44
abusive father, who had just arranged a forced marriage between her and her cousin.
00:48
The only problem in Saudi Arabia
00:50
women are prohibited from travelling outside of the home without a male guardian's permission, in this case, her father's.
00:57
I have no protection,
00:58
any kind of protection, from my other members of my family or the government
01:06
Or anybody.
01:07
Actually the government
01:11
already criminalizing me because I left home and
01:18
And that's a crime and you get jailed for that and lashed if a woman
01:25
leaves her
01:28
Family home even if they were abusers.
01:32
After being brought back by the Saudi government
01:34
She fled again this time to the house of a foreign friend where she sought shelter and recorded this video
01:39
stating that should it go public. She's either dead or in prison.

Here is part of the video transcript which makes it very clear the kind of oppression women suffer in that country.

03:02
The subject of Saudi woman causing the Saudi government international embarrassment
03:07
so they want to make sure that these women
03:09
and when they flee the country they don't speak about what's going on inside Saudi Arabia
03:14
I just don't know why is it difficult, why the hell is it difficult to just give me my rights and let me live in peace.
03:27
Why can't you just protect me from my abusers?
03:31
It's really easy, It's, I think even the poorest countries have it, why don't we have it here?
03:39
We're a developed country, and it's just nonsense that when I call the
03:50
The domestic violence number and they they tell me that,
03:57
"No, you need to come, so you can file the report."
04:03
And I'm telling them that
04:05
"I can't come I'm imprisoned in the house. I was just abused and the door is locked
04:11
"Why can't you just come and just save me?"
04:16
And they don't, they don't come, they
04:19
Want you to come and not just the fact that they want you to come,
04:22
they want you to bring one of the male members of your family
04:27
No matter what age you are,
04:30
they still want a male to be with you, to escort you.

 

[stvdv]

what is that video reply fooYang, that's total spam

Thanks for pointing that out. After watching the OP video this reply with this video (with no explanation) felt totally inappropriate to me.

 

[stvdv]

I repeat my question please link to the survey

I googled and found below link. Seems correct. Includes at least the 91% number

Worldwide Trends in Honor Killings

 

[MikeDwight]

I googled and found below link. Seems correct. Includes at least the 91% number

Worldwide Trends in Honor Killings

Why don't they just include French Passion Crimes? You get to kill me because you felt provoked and felt strongly about something...
Crime of passion - Wikipedia
I watched a French drama like La Passion, every other scene,well, first scene kissing, scene 2 obviously other guy, gun, life pleading, like What.
Napoleon has pretend marriages with girlfriends and his wife has pretend husband with boyfriends and everybody knows this and the City of Lights Love and stupidity.

 

[stvdv]

I googled and found below link. Seems correct. Includes at least the 91% number

Worldwide Trends in Honor Killings

Why don't they just include French Passion Crimes? You get to kill me because you felt provoked and felt strongly about something...
Crime of passion - Wikipedia
I watched a French drama like La Passion, every other scene,well, first scene kissing, scene 2 obviously other guy, gun, life pleading, like What.
Napoleon has pretend marriages with girlfriends and his wife has pretend husband with boyfriends and everybody knows this and the City of Lights Love and stupidity.

Makes sense to me they don't include French passion crimes when reading the first part of the article.

From the link:
"To combat the epidemic of honor killings requires understanding what makes these murders unique. They differ from plain and psychopathic homicides, serial killings, crimes of passion, revenge killings, and domestic violence. Their motivation is different and based on codes of morality and behavior that typify some cultures, often reinforced by fundamentalist religious dictates"

 

[Riders]

Its a terrible thing. Are not Jewish extremists also guilty of honour killings?

 

[Samantha Rinne]

A recent survey showed that 91 percent of honor killings worldwide are committed by Muslims, and 84 percent of honor killings in the United States were done by Muslims.
So please don't even try to say that Islam has nothing to do with it.
Islam has a lot to do with it but we don't know exactly how Islam is to blame in this kind of crime.
Is it more shameful that your daughter doesn't dress appropriately than your decision to kill her?
It doesn't make any sense to me but I'm a westerner and family traditions are not that important to us.
I grew up a Catholic and later in my teens I turned into an agnostic. Nobody in my family or in my social circles seemed to care so much about it, life went on with no problems.
That is not the case in Muslim families, an apostate has to face life-changing experiences once they make the decision to abandon Islam. In most cases, they have to run away and leave their families and friends for fear of retaliation.

Are you sure it's only 91%? I know of no other religion that even mentions honor killings.

I think the last thing in this quote is basically it. That people want to leave Islam discredits it, and humbles them. So they try to keep people by fear. There are numerous sections from the Quran (and the Hadiths) about apostacy, and basically, because Sharia is a mix of religion and politics, apostacy is basically treason.

Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia

Wael Hallaq states that "(in) a culture whose lynchpin is religion, religious principles and religious morality, apostasy is in some way equivalent to high treason in the modern nation-state"

They are effectively enforcing fear of death. Catholicism has no need of doing this, because it is free to be accepted or rejected on its own merits.

But the days of Islam are numbered. Why? Well, let's read Machiavelli.

“A prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared while he is not hated, which will always be as long as he abstains from despoiling the property of his citizens, and from their women.”

Once you start messing with women or property, people stop fearing you and start to hate you. Once they hate you, even the fear of death is no good. As Islam takes land from Westerners, and their women, they are in their rights to fight back, in the same way that a person living under a king with "right of first night" or taking land away incurs public ire.

 

[FooYang]

There are numerous sections from the Quran (and the Hadiths) about apostacy, and basically, because Sharia is a mix of religion and politics, apostacy is basically treason.

Not true, historically or textually. There is no such thing as apostasy in early Islam. Apostatize from what? submission from God? well, that is very vague. "Apostasy" is a Catholic thing.
The Qur'an is quite an open text regarding universality, aside from this it doesn't support sectarianism ("Muslim"/"Atheist"/"Christian"/"Jew"), it only speaks of mankind's relation to God (as well as their idiocy), not any special chosen group.

 

[FooYang]

Thanks for pointing that out. After watching the OP video this reply with this video (with no explanation) felt totally inappropriate to me.

Well I found it the only appropriate reply. I appreciate your input though, your personal opinions are very helpful.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Oh, stop lying! I can find quotes.

Quran 4:89
"They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliya' (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah (to Muhammad). But if they turn back (from Islam), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliya' (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them."

Quran 9:11-12
"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

Sahih Bukhari (52:260)

Sahih Bukhari (84:57)

Sahih Bukhari (89:271)

Sahih Bukhari (84:58)

al-Muwatta of Imam Malik (36.18.15)
"The Messenger of Allah said, "If someone changes his religion - then strike off his head."

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1
"When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed."

 

[Father Heathen]

The term "honor killing" is misleading because they have no concept or understanding of actual honor, considering that murdering children over petty, trivial, and arbitrary reasons is one of the most shameful and dishonorable things one can do.

 

[FooYang]

Oh, stop lying! I can find quotes.

Quotes are irrelevant when you don't even interpret the root Arabic words properly, you just assume semantics onto translated words. At least get that right first, then we can talk

I have here, to either assume you're being naive, ignorant or just not intelligent. Your responses will make this more apparent.

 

[Father Heathen]

100% of crimes are made by human beings, so why single out Muslims every time you make a OP? Why not look in to how ALL human beings can become better and do less crimes?

Never seen you make a post like this in threads about U.S. gun violence.

 

[FooYang]

The term "honor killing" is misleading because they have no concept or understanding of actual honor, considering that murdering children over petty, trivial, and arbitrary reasons is one of the most shameful and dishonorable things one can do.

Yep, the Qur'an even warns against that kind of tragic stuff. Fitna among a family is one of the worst things you can do in a family, as 'Islam' treats the family as a far more sacred thing than even some other religions. Keeping peace is high priority for any Muslim. The integrity of your family, even if members don't 'believe', is everything. Once you turn against them, you've committed a massive sin.

 

[Raymann]

Not true, historically or textually. There is no such thing as apostasy in early Islam. Apostatize from what? submission from God? well, that is very vague. "Apostasy" is a Catholic thing.

Apostasy simply means leaving Islam and it is actually considered some sort of treason.

I think you're wrong about not being part of Islam.

Take a look here: