horrors of religion

[richardlowellt]

I do agree with you here, though.

But doctors themselves do what they do because they want to help, even if they suck at it.


That you would make such a general statement about ALL doctors is pretty sad. I suppose all dentists suck at what they do, all lawyers, all nurses!!

 

[richardlowellt]

Exactly.

This guy just wanted a miracle, not realizing that there was no need for one.

No, this guy was so BLINDED by religion, that all rational thought was suspended, he relied on magic to save his daughter, you can say miracle, but that is the same as magic.

 

[Riverwolf]

That you would make such a general statement about ALL doctors is pretty sad. I suppose all dentists suck at what they do, all lawyers, all nurses!!

Please show me where I said ALL doctors suck at what they do.

So far I've come across exactly ONE doctor who treated me as a piece of paper on a notepad. (As a scientist, he was still good.) All others have been good people who were able to convey their recognition of the fact that I'm a human being.

 

[Riverwolf]

No, this guy was so BLINDED by religion, that all rational thought was suspended, he relied on magic to save his daughter, you can say miracle, but that is the same as magic.

Magick is human beings taking what is already there and tweaking it to serve their own ends.

Miracles come from God. (Theoretically.)

It would be more accurate to say that miracles are fantasy. (Which they are; God does not suspend the laws of nature.)

And again, this guy is probably incapable of rational thought, whether or not religion is there.

 

[richardlowellt]

I know and I don't. (I'm stupid for different reasons.) Please show me where I said I did or implied that I did.

Again, more fools. I still fail to see how this is religion's doing and not the people misusing it.


This isn't religion's doing; this is idealistic and naive children trying to be parents. (I don't care if they're in adult bodies; they're still children.)

I tell you that if this was religion's doing, these kinds of people would be the majority of believers and not a small minority.

OK. Lets keep this simple, would this father have done what he did if religion or a religious belief was not present? Would these people have aborted their baby if they had zero religious belief? You may say it's the people who are at fault and not religion, but religion or a particular religious belief caused they people to do what they did.

 

[richardlowellt]

Please show me where I said ALL doctors suck at what they do.

So far I've come across exactly ONE doctor who treated me as a piece of paper on a notepad. (As a scientist, he was still good.) All others have been good people who were able to convey their recognition of the fact that I'm a human being.

My post #21 starts with your exact quote.

 

[Riverwolf]

OK. Lets keep this simple, would this father have done what he did if religion or a religious belief was not present? Would these people have aborted their baby if they had zero religious belief? You may say it's the people who are at fault and not religion, but religion or a particular religious belief caused they people to do what they did.

No. He would have done something else equally foolish instead.

These people who aborted their baby would have also done something equally foolish.

 

[Riverwolf]

My post #21 starts with your exact quote.

I see. Then I'll add some more words to make what I meant clearer.

...even if SOME OF THEM suck at PEOPLE SKILLS.

 

[richardlowellt]

No. He would have done something else equally foolish instead.

These people who aborted their baby would have also done something equally foolish.

And what makes you think if would have done something else just a foolish? Maybe with religion out of the picture he would have done what anyone would do with a sick child, bring her to the doctors or a hospital emergency room.

 

[ManTimeForgot]

Richardlowelt: Give over. It is patently obvious that you have a poisonous distaste for religion period. That one singular instance is not in any way indicative of religion's effects on people on average. Your argument amounts to the same thing as saying: There was once a man who believed in his friend so much that when his friend turned out to be a sociopathic murderer he joined his friend in murder; therefore we should not have friends because look at what effects having friends has on people.


Non-believer on the thread about faith is at least putting forward an actual argument; he is making the claim that it is faith which the root cause of problems for religion. I disagree, but perhaps you can put your 2 cents worth in.


Whatever arguments you have regarding religion will almost certainly apply just as equally to government. Government has a long history of abuses, tragedies, and genocide associated with it. Does that mean that we should assume that government is unnecessary or evil? Anything taken to an extreme can become harmful. This includes ideologies, philosophies, and institutions.

The root problem isn't religion. The root problem is much much simpler. 50% of the world's population has an IQ of 100 or less. Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. Take this into consideration with the power of the mob and any institution can be turned into something bereft of moral fiber. Now it might be argued that certain religions are guilty of being exactly that. But that is insufficient to argue that all religion is bad.

Qualities of the part need not be qualities of the whole.

MTF

 

[richardlowellt]

I see. Then I'll add some more words to make what I meant clearer.

...even if SOME OF THEM suck at PEOPLE SKILLS.

Much better, thank you!!!

 

[Riverwolf]

And what makes you think if would have done something else just a foolish? Maybe with religion out of the picture he would have done what anyone would do with a sick child, bring her to the doctors or a hospital emergency room.

Fools are fools. Yes, he probably would have taken her to the hospital if he wasn't this type of Christian.

So I ask you this: what kind of father was he to his daughter, and was she growing up to be a disciplined, independent, and responsible member of society?

 

[Riverwolf]

The root problem isn't religion. The root problem is much much simpler. 50% of the world's population has an IQ of 100 or less. Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Dumbness, not stupidity.

Stupidity is having the intelligence and not using it. Being dumb is the actual lacking of it.

 

[richardlowellt]

Richardlowelt: Give over. It is patently obvious that you have a poisonous distaste for religion period. That one singular instance is not in any way indicative of religion's effects on people on average. Your argument amounts to the same thing as saying: There was once a man who believed in his friend so much that when his friend turned out to be a sociopathic murderer he joined his friend in murder; therefore we should not have friends because look at what effects having friends has on people.


Non-believer on the thread about faith is at least putting forward an actual argument; he is making the claim that it is faith which the root cause of problems for religion. I disagree, but perhaps you can put your 2 cents worth in.


Whatever arguments you have regarding religion will almost certainly apply just as equally to government. Government has a long history of abuses, tragedies, and genocide associated with it. Does that mean that we should assume that government is unnecessary or evil? Anything taken to an extreme can become harmful. This includes ideologies, philosophies, and institutions.

The root problem isn't religion. The root problem is much much simpler. 50% of the world's population has an IQ of 100 or less. Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. Take this into consideration with the power of the mob and any institution can be turned into something bereft of moral fiber. Now it might be argued that certain religions are guilty of being exactly that. But that is insufficient to argue that all religion is bad.

Qualities of the part need not be qualities of the whole.

MTF

Your right I have a distain for religion and the evil it has brought to the human race. The incident in question is only one of many, a little research will reveal many such horrors. I'm sure that we could have a contest between religion and governments as to which has done the most evil, I think religion would win hands down, but it would be an interesting project. Religion has been around a lot longer than organized governments, and has been a plague since early man. How much better off our species would have been without this plague. Religion in fact poisons everything.

 

[Sunstone]

That's not religion. That's the father being an idiot.

Religion was the enabler.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

Although an extreme case this certainly points to the danger that religion plays when a belief is taken to the extreme. A father prayed instead of taking his 11 year old to the hospital because he couldn't seek medical help without disobeying God. "I can't do that because biblically, I cannot find that is the way people are healed. If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God. God promises in the bible to heal, for that to take place in our lives we have to live on God's instructions. His daughter had diabetes and at the time could not walk, talk, eat , or speak. She died on the floor as people surrounded her and prayed. If this is not an example of how religion can be a poison, please tell me why.

That's too bad I am sorry for those involved.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

OK. Lets keep this simple, would this father have done what he did if religion or a religious belief was not present? Would these people have aborted their baby if they had zero religious belief? You may say it's the people who are at fault and not religion, but religion or a particular religious belief caused they people to do what they did.

People don't need religion as an excuse to do stupid things they usually just do stupid things in general. Check out the Darwin Awards

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

Religion in fact poisons everything.

Really? It poisons everything?

So the local church run mission that takes in the homeless and gives them a hot meal and a bed on a cold winter night is poison?

What about the YMCA or YWCA?
My local YWCA has a home for battered women and children.
My local YMCA offers activities and camps for children during the summer days while parents work and the kids are off school.

The local food pantries here are run by churches or the Salvation Army.

 

[Storm]

Your right I have a distain for religion and the evil it has brought to the human race. The incident in question is only one of many, a little research will reveal many such horrors. I'm sure that we could have a contest between religion and governments as to which has done the most evil, I think religion would win hands down, but it would be an interesting project. Religion has been around a lot longer than organized governments, and has been a plague since early man. How much better off our species would have been without this plague. Religion in fact poisons everything.

What was poisonous about the REVEREND Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Yes, religion was the enabler of this unfortunate story. And many horrible things have happened either in the name of religion, or as a consiquence of religious beliefs.

However, we must be careful not to fall into the trap of believing religion only causes evil. This is the same tactic used against Atheists in pointing out the horrors that Stalin employed, or against those who support the ToE by pointing to the atrocities employed by those who used Social Darwinism as an excuse to commit genocide, or allowing the socially unfit to die out.

Mankind will sometimes use any excuse, be it religion, nationalism, philosophy, or any obscure rational to excuse their own ignorance and heartlessness.