horrors of religion

[Storm]

No, not what I asked, I didn't ask for a RELIGION, I asked for examples of what was discussed in the post!!!

No, you said:

Then show me where any of these things I have stated are NOT true!!

... which we proceeded to do.

 

[richardlowellt]

And believers don't make mistakes based on disbelief in God. One cannot make mistakes based on a perspective one lacks. So, do you have a point, or were you just belaboring the obvious.

Of course, there is always reason, and logic, nothing to do with perspective unless your perspective is clouded or blinded by a religious belief.

 

[EtuMalku]

i hope your not one of these people that when it comes to the creative arts, thinks that divine inspiration is solely responsible for great works of art and music. Nothing can be furter from the truth.

My understanding is that music is the only true Art as it directly connects us with the Divine.

Would you elaborate briefly on your statement? (sorry to move off topic)

 

[Storm]

Of course, there is always reason, and logic, nothing to do with perspective unless your perspective is clouded or blinded by a religious belief.

More bigotry. Do you have a point, or are you just ranting?

 

[richardlowellt]

This proves nothing, absolutely nothing.

Using this "reasoning," I could say that one could avoid an entire category of genocide, economic disaster, the starvation of millions, forced sterilizations, yada yada yada, by avoiding atheist practices, by not sharing in the abusive beliefs that are common to atheist regimes.

Or I could just do my best to apply my moral standard consistently in my life by treating others as I wish to be treated.

I think I'll stick with the second option. Seems in the best interest of myself and society in general.

You continue to get this WRONG, Atheists have NO BELIEFS in mythical beings, they don't make decisions based on these beings.

 

[Storm]

You continue to get this WRONG, Atheists have NO BELIEFS in mythical beings, they don't make decisions based on these beings.

Which is irrelevant. You still **** up, proving that either atheism is as depraved as religion, or that worldview has nothing to do with human fallibility.

 

[EtuMalku]

Atheism has been an enabler of horrible things as well - in fact, more people were killed in the name of atheism in the 20th century alone than were killed in the name of Christianity during the Inquisition, witch trials, and Crusades combined.

Truly you jest with that statement?

 

[linwood]

Which is irrelevant. You still **** up, proving that either atheism is as depraved as religion, or that worldview has nothing to do with human fallibility.

There`s a false choice if I ever saw one.

Do you truly believe that a persons world view has nothing to do with their fallibility?

 

[Kathryn]

Truly you jest with that statement?

Um, no.

Do the research.

 

[EtuMalku]

The bottom line to this thread is simply . . . this Father put his trust in the Abrahamic God and this God let him down and now his little daughter is dead.

 

[richardlowellt]

My understanding is that music is the only true Art as it directly connects us with the Divine.

Would you elaborate briefly on your statement? (sorry to move off topic)

I don't know where you got this understanding, it is certainly untrue. I am a composer/arranger, many of my colleagues are also composers, there is no connection with the creativity and the divine. Of course there are some who will use a belief in a divine being as inspiration, but it is totally unnecessary.

A composer used many different thoughts to create a piece, it my involve a story line, a nature scene, a particular technique, an emotion, or any number of such things or a combination of these thoughts. Music comes from inside, and not necessarily from an external form such as a divine being. I have no belief in a God figure and have been told I wrote some beautiful music.

 

[Kathryn]

The bottom line is this: This father didn't use the resources available to him. He failed his daughter and will have to live with that guilt the rest of his life.

I have faith in God. That doesn't mean that I get to act stupidly and then shake my fist in God's face when He doesn't "protect" me from my own stupid decisions.

"Hmmm, I am a Christian and I have faith that God will protect me. I'm going to smoke in bed. Why shouldn't I? Hey, while I'm at it, I think I'll leave all my doors unlocked every night. In fact, I'm going to leave my car doors unlocked too, with the keys in the ignition and my purse and cell phone laying in the passenger seat while I run in and return these DVDs - after all, God will protect me and my property! Hey, this is fun! I think I'll leave pennies laying around all over the floor when my baby learns to crawl - after all, God will protect me and mine! You know what - I'm going to start drinking a bottle of wine a night - who's afraid of liver damage? GOD WILL PROTECT ME! Kids, go run out in the street to play...God will protect you..."

Or how 'bout this (to follow your line of "reasoning"):

"I put my trust in the government to protect my rights. This means I don't have to vote, don't have to keep abreast of current events, don't have to take any sort of stand on political issues. After all, my government will protect me, right? If my human rights are encroached on or trampled by my government, it's not my fault - I trusted my government leaders to protect me."

Hmmm, how bout this one:

"I put my trust in my husband - I trust him to be faithful. This means I can get as fat and unattractive as I want to get. After all, I trust him. In fact, I can be as *****y as I like - because I trust him unconditionally. I can treat him like crap every day for the next 30 years - because I trust him. In fact, if he cheats on me or leaves me, he's letting ME down. IT'S HIS FAULT, not mine! Bring on the chocolate!"

 

[richardlowellt]

No, you said:
... which we proceeded to do.

No you have not, in my post #75 I listed the things I thought where wrong with the three major religions of the world, I was accused of bigotry, so asked for examples of anything that I stated as being untrue. No one has come to the forefront and offered examples where these things where not true.

 

[richardlowellt]

More bigotry. Do you have a point, or are you just ranting?

Yes, my point is that mistakes can be avoided using reason and logic. Religion never has to enter the picture, and when it does then reason and logic can be thrown out the window and mistakes made, is that clear enough for you?

 

[richardlowellt]

The bottom line is this: This father didn't use the resources available to him. He failed his daughter and will have to live with that guilt the rest of his life.

I have faith in God. That doesn't mean that I get to act stupidly and then shake my fist in God's face when He doesn't "protect" me from my own stupid decisions.

"Hmmm, I am a Christian and I have faith that God will protect me. I'm going to smoke in bed. Why shouldn't I? Hey, while I'm at it, I think I'll leave all my doors unlocked every night. In fact, I'm going to leave my car doors unlocked too, with the keys in the ignition and my purse and cell phone laying in the passenger seat while I run in and return these DVDs - after all, God will protect me and my property! Hey, this is fun! I think I'll leave pennies laying around all over the floor when my baby learns to crawl - after all, God will protect me and mine! You know what - I'm going to start drinking a bottle of wine a night - who's afraid of liver damage? GOD WILL PROTECT ME! Kids, go run out in the street to play...God will protect you..."

Or how 'bout this (to follow your line of "reasoning"):

"I put my trust in the government to protect my rights. This means I don't have to vote, don't have to keep abreast of current events, don't have to take any sort of stand on political issues. After all, my government will protect me, right? If my human rights are encroached on or trampled by my government, it's not my fault - I trusted my government leaders to protect me."

Hmmm, how bout this one:

"I put my trust in my husband - I trust him to be faithful. This means I can get as fat and unattractive as I want to get. After all, I trust him. In fact, I can be as *****y as I like - because I trust him unconditionally. I can treat him like crap every day for the next 30 years - because I trust him. In fact, if he cheats on me or leaves me, he's letting ME down. IT'S HIS FAULT, not mine! Bring on the chocolate!"

Again you seem to miss my point, of course this father acted stupid, the question is what caused this stupid moment. Do you not agree that peoples reason and logic can be clouded or even blinded by a religious belief? Everyone seems to want to absolve this father's religious decision to let his daughter die by saying he was an idiot, stupid, would have probably let her die anyway. The bottom line, and my point is that a religious belief was the cause of his daughters death.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes, my point is that mistakes can be avoided using reason and logic. Religion never has to enter the picture, and when it does then reason and logic can be thrown out the window and mistakes made, is that clear enough for you?

Reason and logic have their limitations.

For instance, we can only apply reason and logic through our own human experiences, senses, etc. Let me give you an example of how limiting that is:

I have a dog. I live in close proximity to this dog, and in fact, I love this dog. I would like to think my dog loves me as well - but that would only be ascribing human emotions and understanding to the dog.

The truth of the matter is this - though I can try to learn as much as possible about that dog - her nature, her biology, etc. I can never really know what it's like to BE that dog. I can't experience reality the way she experiences it.

Your idea that religious beliefs negate reasoning and logic is faulty logic in and of itself. You're assuming that the human understanding of reality defines reality - when in actuality our grasp of "reality" is extremely limited.

 

[EtuMalku]

I don't know where you got this understanding, it is certainly untrue. I am a composer/arranger, many of my colleagues are also composers, there is no connection with the creativity and the divine. Of course there are some who will use a belief in a divine being as inspiration, but it is totally unnecessary.

A composer used many different thoughts to create a piece, it my involve a story line, a nature scene, a particular technique, an emotion, or any number of such things or a combination of these thoughts. Music comes from inside, and not necessarily from an external form such as a divine being. I have no belief in a God figure and have been told I wrote some beautiful music.

Well, I completely disagree but this is for another thread I'm afraid . . . before we get yelled at :run:

 

[Kathryn]

Again you seem to miss my point, of course this father acted stupid, the question is what caused this stupid moment. Do you not agree that peoples reason and logic can be clouded or even blinded by a religious belief? Everyone seems to want to absolve this father's religious decision to let his daughter die by saying he was an idiot, stupid, would have probably let her die anyway. The bottom line, and my point is that a religious belief was the cause of his daughters death.

People's reason and logic can be clouded by any number of things - addictions, mental illness, emotional distress, adrenaline, hypnosis - you name it. His daughter's death was not CAUSED by a religious belief - it was CAUSED by the father's misjudgment.

A belief cannot cause an event any more than a gun can cause a shooting.

Beliefs don't kill people - people kill people.

 

[EtuMalku]

Again you seem to miss my point, of course this father acted stupid, the question is what caused this stupid moment. Do you not agree that peoples reason and logic can be clouded or even blinded by a religious belief? Everyone seems to want to absolve this father's religious decision to let his daughter die by saying he was an idiot, stupid, would have probably let her die anyway. The bottom line, and my point is that a religious belief was the cause of his daughters death.

I would rather say that a religious belief helped created a false sense of security and impairment of judgment and reasoning in the Father.

I'm amazed I haven't heard the infamous statement that "the devil made him do it" as of yet? :devil:

 

[Kathryn]

Hey, when an atheist tramples the rights of others, or behaves stupidly, or commits a crime, who do they blame? Their mama? THE SYSTEM? DA MAN?

Even if they take full responsibility for it themselves, it doesn't undo the damage, does it?