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How Africa is being exploited by banking élites. How US Democrats are on the wrong side.

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Shall I side with the bankers' élites?
;)
Why must you side with one or the other?

If both do evil, it's okay to condemn both, you know.....

I just pointed find it incredibly hypocritical of you to condemn these "banking elites", whoever they are supposed to be, on mostly conspiracy theories of all things.... while you simply ignore stone cold facts and even glorify mercenaries from wagner who, at the very least, are much more upfront about their horrible treatment of these people. They don't even try to hide it.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
The operation in Libya was decided by the UN Security Council through resolution 1973.
This was not "hillary's" decision.

Furthermore, the mail you link to is a mail TO hillary, not a mail FROM hillary.
But she knew.
What did she do to stop France and to inform Italy...at least...that had the right to know?

By the way...you didn't answer about the banking élites. He who is silent, means yes. ;)
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Why must you side with one or the other?

If both do evil, it's okay to condemn both, you know.....

I just pointed find it incredibly hypocritical of you to condemn these "banking elites", whoever they are supposed to be, on mostly conspiracy theories of all things.... while you simply ignore stone cold facts and even glorify mercenaries from wagner who, at the very least, are much more upfront about their horrible treatment of these people. They don't even try to hide it.

I am happy if Wagner beats up those who want neo-colonialism in Africa. Bravo Wagner.

Shall I side with godless and devilish neo-colonialists? ;)
 
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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
But she knew.

So what?

What did she do to stop France and to inform Italy...at least...that had the right to know?

It wouldn't have changed anything about the UN Security Council resolution. Which was about Gaddafi's warcrimes, not about anything else.

By the way...you didn't answer about the banking élites. He who is silent, means yes. ;)
I don't respond to vague claims that are indistinguishable from crazy conspiracies.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
But it's Hillary that was in charge when Libya was undone. Gaddafi was trying to save those African countries from that legalized usury.
Evidence: WikiLeaks - Hillary Clinton Email Archive

The question is: do you PureX, side with Hillary's decision? Yes or No.
I do not run the United States. I am not a supporter of capitalism. Hillary was as crooked as her husband. And it's why she lost to Trump in 2016. But Trump turned out to be both insane and incompetent. So he lost on 2020 and we got Biden. Another neo-liberal capitalist toady. As Harris will almost certainly also be.

The names and the parties change, but the capitalist greed never does. And the oligarchs own them all. Along with everything else.
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
So what?



It wouldn't have changed anything about the UN Security Council resolution. Which was about Gaddafi's warcrimes, not about anything else.
It would have changed a lot for us Italians.
We would have tried to prevent the horrific Left from participating in that war.

We know who is the Italian Freemason who allowed all this. He died of old age. And went to Inferno, thank God.

I don't respond to vague claims that are indistinguishable from crazy conspiracies.
Plead the fifth, like all defendants, dear.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I do not run the United States. I am not a supporter of capitalism. Hillary was as crooked as her husband. And it's why she lost to Trump in 2016. But Trump turned out to be both insane and incompetent. So he lost on 2020 and we got Biden. Another nor-liberal capitalist toady. As Harris will almost certainly also be.

The names and the parties change, but the capitalist greed never does. And the oligarchs own them all. Along with everything else.
There is also Europe as alternative. They say Ireland is a very nice and non expensive country.

By the way, I understand your plight. The truth is that they would never let real socialist govern in the USA.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Here a video from the Prime Minister of Italy who clearly expresses how the solution to Africa's great social injustices is to liberate this continent, especially Western Africa, from banking and financial élites who gain billion of dollars by exploiting their resources.



And here explained more thoroughly.


Of course Hillary's emails clearly show that the despicable Democratic Party is on the wrong side of history, as usual, since they approve of France's efforts to oppose Mali's liberation from those élites. They remained four long years. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/24/niger-sahel-russia-africa-corps-united-states/

Thoughts? ;)

You guys are kindly invited to stay on topic (the videos posted) and not to attack the OP as excuse not to deal with the topic.
You guys are kindly invited not to elude the questions those videos pose.
Thank you.

I suppose "1st World" countries benefit from an import of cheap labor and cheap resources.
Also by depleting from the population of the country, there is less public resistance to the exploitation of a country's resources.

I suspect a lot of politicians don't see this as exploitation though. They probably see themselves as doing what is best for everyone. I imagine it'd be pretty hard to get the politicians to realize their actions are far from benevolent.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
It would have changed a lot for us Italians.

No, it wouldn't have changed anything.
Resolution 1973 would have still been voted and the mission to implement it would have still been carried out.


We would have tried to prevent the horrific Left from participating in that war.

lol, good luck with that.
The many protests around the world were unsuccessful in stopping the non-mandated war against Iraq with their "coalition of the willing"... just what do you think you could have done against a UN Mandated mission backed by a security council resolution?

We know who is the Italian Freemason who allowed all this. He died of old age. And went to Inferno, thank God.

More ridiculousness..... again, what "allowed" (more like "mandated") the mission in Libya was Security Council resolution 1973.
Italy supported the resolution, were pro supplying arms to the rebels and were pro overthrowing Gaddafi.

Plead the fifth, like all defendants, dear.
I don't know what you mean by that.
But likely it will be some other stupid point that isn't really a point.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
There is also Europe as alternative. They say Ireland is a very nice and non expensive country.

By the way, I understand your plight. The truth is that they would never let real socialist govern in the USA.
We can't even speak of socialism in the US unless it's spoken of as a heinous pejorative. Such is the power and influence of the capitalists and their worship of greed, selfishness and stupidity. The American people are very slowly beginning to wake up to the poison of it, but at present, there is no hope for any immediate remedy.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I suppose "1st World" countries benefit from an import of cheap labor and cheap resources.
Yes, and that must end.
Also by depleting from the population of the country, there is less public resistance to the exploitation of a country's resources.
Indeed. Monstrous thing.
I suspect a lot of politicians don't see this as exploitation though.
Quoting a famous movie with Meg Ryan, certain politicians have a cash register instead of a brain and a bottom line instead of a heart. :)
They probably see themselves as doing what is best for everyone.
No...they have just a cash register instead of the heart. Easy as pie.
I imagine it'd be pretty hard to get the politicians to realize their actions are far from benevolent.
Indeed.
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
More ridiculousness..... again, what "allowed" (more like "mandated") the mission in Libya was Security Council resolution 1973.
Italy supported the resolution, were pro supplying arms to the rebels and were pro overthrowing Gaddafi.
I didn't support anything.
It was that Freemason who did this...a person who dwelled in a very luxurious Palace.
My reward is that he went to Hell. :)
I am satisfied. Fortunately death exists.
I don't know what you mean by that.
But likely it will be some other stupid point that isn't really a point.
Can you stay on topic and tell me what you think of Meloni's statement in the first video?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I can promise you that the worst exploiters have been Britain and France.
The worst crimes were committed by them.
So Europeans is a quite broad term. :)

I'm aware that the British and the French were the most successful in that enterprise, although other European nations did try to expand and acquire resources in the ways they had available.

But as I said, it's generally how the world has worked. It's not just Europeans, but everywhere in the world can one find historical examples of exploitation, conquest, violence, and atrocity. It's a human trait.

It is not a system that can be called "a savior".
It's something run by devilish banking and financial élites who want to steal raw materials from Africa instead of paying them the rightful price for them.
I know because Italy is trying to undo this horrific system by a new Marshall Plan for Africa called Piano Mattei.
Italy summoned all African leaders to Rome, last January:

Our PM is a warrior. She wants to fight this neo-colonialist mentality because Africa can become prosperous by selling its own resources at a fair price.

The West is in a pickle right now because they've spent the past several centuries enslaving, exploiting, and pretty much gutting the world of resources and most everything of value. But they have nothing to show for it. Our government in the U.S. is financially strapped, in deep insurmountable debt. My sense is that France may be in a similar situation. I recall quite a political backlash when they wanted to raise the retirement age. That indicates a government with money troubles.

Western countries are also in a situation where they have grown increasingly dependent upon manufactured goods made in far-flung places with exploitable cheap labor. It's the same with mining, as mentioned by Meloni in the video. Can't afford to pay miners in the U.S. or other Western countries, so they outsource that as well.

I've had this conversation all too often with a great many well-meaning liberals who are clearly conflicted on the whole situation, but throw up their hands and accept it because to actually do the right thing would have enormous ramifications and consequences to our economy and standard of living. And they're probably right, since to actually reverse our exploitive policies and to actually pay fair prices and fair wages would wreck the entire global economy and the "new world order" that George Bush worked so hard to create.


Not Westerners, Just some.
Italy and many other European countries are not in on it.

I'm not sure who, exactly, is "in on it." As you mentioned, Britain and France were the primary movers and shakers behind most of it, but the US picked up the slack after they got in over their heads with Germany.

At least my Prime Minister is working on a solution.

What is the solution do other Westerners propose?

I would propose a global socialist government which could harness the world's resources and combined power to implement a global "Marshall Plan" which would modernize cities, infrastructure, housing, transportation, schools, healthcare, etc. But I also recognize that most people in the West would virulently oppose such a proposal. However, I don't think anyone else has any real answer to the situation we currently face. It's not just with Europe or Africa, but it's a global problem.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I didn't support anything.

Were you even born then?

It was that Freemason who did this...a person who dwelled in a very luxurious Palace.
My reward is that he went to Hell. :)
I am satisfied. Fortunately death exists.

I said "Italy". As a country, they supported the resolution. Not just one person. I don't even know who you are talking about.

Can you stay on topic and tell me what you think of Meloni's statement in the first video?
"can you stay on topic" - LOL, that's rich coming from you

I didn't watch the video nor do I plan on doing so any time soon. I don't have sound here and later on I bet I have better things to do. You are welcome to summarize.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I would propose a global socialist government which could harness the world's resources

"harness"?
Is that a fancy word for "steal them from the countries in which these resources are found"?

and combined power to implement a global "Marshall Plan" which would modernize cities, infrastructure, housing, transportation, schools, healthcare, etc. But I also recognize that most people in the West would virulently oppose such a proposal. However, I don't think anyone else has any real answer to the situation we currently face. It's not just with Europe or Africa, but it's a global problem.
Citizens of authoritarian countries could start with rising up against their dictators and have a free secular democracy installed which would open up a free economy allowing anyone and their mothers to engage in whatever business they like.

That would be a nice start.

Everywhere where this happens, life tends to improve for everyone in only decades.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I'm aware that the British and the French were the most successful in that enterprise, although other European nations did try to expand and acquire resources in the ways they had available.

But as I said, it's generally how the world has worked. It's not just Europeans, but everywhere in the world can one find historical examples of exploitation, conquest, violence, and atrocity. It's a human trait.
Also because we lost WW2 so we lost all our colonies automatically.
Even if they were very few. But in French Africa there has never been a decolonization process.
The West is in a pickle right now because they've spent the past several centuries enslaving, exploiting, and pretty much gutting the world of resources and most everything of value. But they have nothing to show for it. Our government in the U.S. is financially strapped, in deep insurmountable debt. My sense is that France may be in a similar situation. I recall quite a political backlash when they wanted to raise the retirement age. That indicates a government with money troubles.
The debt is a problem because the banking dynasties have stolen the seigniorage from the US citizens.
It they hadn't, the debt wouldn't be a problem because it would be distributed among the citizens themselves.
Public debt = private wealth.

Western countries are also in a situation where they have grown increasingly dependent upon manufactured goods made in far-flung places with exploitable cheap labor. It's the same with mining, as mentioned by Meloni in the video. Can't afford to pay miners in the U.S. or other Western countries, so they outsource that as well.
Meloni's speech can be also used in US politics.
The solution is not to transfer all Hispanics from Mexico and Central America to USA. The solution is to implement a Plan to make these nations prosper.
Nicaragua, Honduras are incredibly rich in resources.
Panama should be one of the wealthiest countries ever because of the Canal.


I've had this conversation all too often with a great many well-meaning liberals who are clearly conflicted on the whole situation, but throw up their hands and accept it because to actually do the right thing would have enormous ramifications and consequences to our economy and standard of living. And they're probably right, since to actually reverse our exploitive policies and to actually pay fair prices and fair wages would wreck the entire global economy and the "new world order" that George Bush worked so hard to create.
What is the meaning of all this?
How can we accept to live a first world life, since we all will die someday?
It's not worth it.
We must help those countries prosper, and if that includes self-sacrifice, yes, let it be.

I'm not sure who, exactly, is "in on it." As you mentioned, Britain and France were the primary movers and shakers behind most of it, but the US picked up the slack after they got in over their heads with Germany.
Germany is a martyr.
It has been a martyr for decades. It has worked hard to become a world power with just its GDP.
Germany has zero colonies.

France has still colonies...that she calls "oversea territories" or "oversea departments" or whatever. They change their name every five seconds.
I would propose a global socialist government which could harness the world's resources and combined power to implement a global "Marshall Plan" which would modernize cities, infrastructure, housing, transportation, schools, healthcare, etc. But I also recognize that most people in the West would virulently oppose such a proposal.
It would be a dream come true.
Unfortunately we need to hope that those banking élites repent and confess their sins before God.
And give the monetary sovereignty back to the people.
Miracles happen, but very rarely.

However, I don't think anyone else has any real answer to the situation we currently face. It's not just with Europe or Africa, but it's a global problem.
Indeed.
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Were you even born then?
Yes.
I said "Italy". As a country, they supported the resolution. Not just one person. I don't even know who you are talking about.
My country was hostage of a Freemasonic coup that ousted Berlusconi.

But I suppose you side with France a priori.
The fuchsia France of Macron Le BonBon... :)


I didn't watch the video nor do I plan on doing so any time soon. I don't have sound here and later on I bet I have better things to do. You are welcome to summarize.

But you can watch the images as other did.
PM Meloni shows the picture of a child who is forced to work in a gold mine in Burkina Faso.
She speaks of the fact that France (or rather the French banking élites, the French commoners are victims) demands that the 50% of the resources from those African countries (CFA Franc countries) ends up in the treasury of the French State.

It means that Western Africa is poor mainly because of this legalized usury. The CFA Franc.

So your "dream" solution against foreign powers "stealing" resources in africa, is to have a global socialist government do it instead? :shrug:


Yes, dear. Because the socialist State uses money to build schools and hospitals in Africa.
Those devilish banking élites spend that money going to brothels and casinos.

You know...Casino Royal ;)
Tu connais?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Yes.

My country was hostage of a Freemasonic coup that ousted Berlusconi.

Are you going to name people or not?
This vaguery and gishing of buzzwords is really tiresome.

But you can watch the images as other did.
PM Meloni shows the picture of a child who is forced to work in a gold mine in Burkina Faso.
She speaks of the fact that France (or rather the French banking élites, the French commoners are victims) demands that the 50% of the resources from those African countries (CFA Franc countries) ends up in the treasury of the French State.

It means that Western Africa is poor mainly because of this legalized usury. The CFA Franc.

I don't know anything about this subject.
But, reading what @Daemon Sophic said in post #5, it sounds like either you are misunderstanding your own video... or Meloni is either wrong or lying.

Yes, dear. Because the socialist State uses money to build schools and hospitals in Africa.

You mean, with whatever money is left over after they have build their 30-bathroom golden palace?

But regardless how they spend the money.... still you just acknowledge that you would support a foreign government to go to those african countries and literally seize their mines and resources.

So it's not so much that you are against France supposedly doing this because they are doing this.... it's rather that you simply don't like the people that are doing it. If the people doing it are your friends, then it's fine.

How about this for a crazy idea:
The people of the countries themselves form mining companies, pay a fee for use of the land / mines and then operate the mines and do with the resources whatever they see fit? Either sell it to other domestic companies for use in production of whatever or export it...


Off course, for that to be possible, the country needs to have a free market / free economy. You know.... capitalism.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Are you going to name people or not?
This vaguery and gishing of buzzwords is really tiresome.

It makes me vomit to say his name.
He is dead. Period.


I don't know anything about this subject.
But, reading what @Daemon Sophic said in post #5, it sounds like either you are misunderstanding your own video... or Meloni is either wrong or lying.

No, dear.
My PM is not lying .

She says the truth. and by the way, you can watch the video without audio because there are subtitles in English when she speaks. So...no excuses...please.




You mean, with whatever money is left over after they have build their 30-bathroom golden palace?
Read the story of José Mujica, president of Uruguay.
There are socialists who believe in what they preach.

If I were a socialist PM, I would donate my PM salary to charity.
But regardless how they spend the money.... still you just acknowledge that you would support a foreign government to go to those african countries and literally seize their mines and resources.
Absolutely not.
I want a local socialist State to be elected by the people. A government who uses that money to build schools, hospitals, public housing.


So it's not so much that you are against France supposedly doing this because they are doing this.... it's rather that you simply don't like the people that are doing it. If the people doing it are your friends, then it's fine.

How about this for a crazy idea:
The people of the countries themselves form mining companies, pay a fee for use of the land / mines and then operate the mines and do with the resources whatever they see fit? Either sell it to other domestic companies for use in production of whatever or export it...


Off course, for that to be possible, the country needs to have a free market / free economy. You know.... capitalism.
The problem is that the difference between Meloni and Macron is the same difference between a strong populism winning in Europe and a system run by banking élites rotting from the inside.

Meloni was born in a proletarian neighborhood, while Macron in a very elitist milieu. He has always been part of the élite.

In Italy if you say :" I belong to the élites and I am proud of it," nobody will vote for you for the next 80 years. Your heirs will be voted out too.

In Belgium if you say: J'appartiens aux élites et j'en suis fière... even the poor vote for you.
n'est-ce pas, mon chou? :sparklingheart:
 
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