How an Omnipotent and All Loving God cannot exist.

[popsthebuilder]

What do you mean by 'spoiled child' ?
What life lessons does a child need to learn ?

If you had a child everything that their heart desires without allowing them to work for anything then they will expect life to be that way and they will be very confused when they realize that life isn't given to them they must work for what they believe in in order to attain their goal. Thank you.

 

[Koldo]

If you had a child everything that their heart desires without allowing them to work for anything then they will expect life to be that way and they will be very confused when they realize that life isn't given to them they must work for what they believe in in order to attain their goal. Thank you.

But certainly if I am the boss that rules over the universe then I can make sure they don't have to work for anything.

 

[popsthebuilder]

But certainly if I am the boss that rules over the universe then I can make sure they don't have to work for anything.

How would they learn their significance or the value of anything if everything was handed to them? How would we learn what was harmful and what was good if we had absolutely no opportunity for harm?

 

[popsthebuilder]

We really need more lazy people expecting handouts, that will fix everything.

 

[Aquitaine]

That's fair, although that really wasn't what I was getting at. What I was prompting us to think about is what it means to be "responsible" for something. The particulars of my example are honestly irrelevant to that point.

Well if you're the God who created the poverty in the first place, then you kind of are responsible for it.

 

[Aquitaine]

We really need more lazy people expecting handouts, that will fix everything.

I agree. What's with these lazy humans freeloading off the Sun's energy? In fact most life on Earth is receiving hand-outs from the Sun, we canot allow this as it'll just encourage life on Earth to be lazy.

People should have to earn their sunlight, oxygen and earth. /s

 

[TheSounding]

By that standard, I suppose we should be grateful for smallpox too...

Putting that aside, everything you have said easily applies to polytheism too.

In terms of applying gratefulness and yielding happiness, monotheism is best because it yields the most happiness. Whereas polytheism convolutes this principle with the number and dimension of deities, monotheism is simple and straightforward, not to mention easier to pass down generationally. I would also assume monotheism is the more peaceable of the two because it suggests unity. Proponents of polytheism are liable to divide themselves based on their beliefs and conflict with each other.

I would disagree that "everything I have said easily applies to polytheism too". If you considered the two objectively and in terms of gratefulness yielding happiness, which would you consider the most efficient? Is it polytheism or monotheism which best maximizes gratefulness?

So far as being grateful for afflictions, I did not say that gratefulness could not accompany grief. An example is when a loved one suffers from an illness and dies. The family feels grief at their loss but is grateful their loved one no longer suffers.

If you still think what I said about monotheism can easily apply to polytheism, would you care to elaborate?

 

[Koldo]

How would they learn their significance or the value of anything if everything was handed to them? How would we learn what was harmful and what was good if we had absolutely no opportunity for harm?

Why would they/we need to learn that ?

 

[Koldo]

In terms of applying gratefulness and yielding happiness, monotheism is best because it yields the most happiness. Whereas polytheism convolutes this principle with the number and dimension of deities, monotheism is simple and straightforward, not to mention easier to pass down generationally. I would also assume monotheism is the more peaceable of the two because it suggests unity. Proponents of polytheism are liable to divide themselves based on their beliefs and conflict with each other.

I would disagree that "everything have said easily applies to polytheism too". If you considered the two objectively and in terms of gratefulness yielding happiness, which would you consider the most efficient? Is it polytheism or monotheism which best maximizes gratefulness?

So far as being grateful for afflictions, I did not say that gratefulness could not accompany grief. An example is when a loved one suffers from an illness and dies. The family feels grief at their loss but is grateful their loved one no longer suffers.

If you still think what I said about monotheism can easily apply to polytheism, would you care to elaborate?

I require you to provide evidence that monotheism yields the most happiness.

 

[TheSounding]

I require you to provide evidence that monotheism yields the most happiness.

I just did provide evidence. My argument is logically sound. Can you make an argument contrary to what I said?

 

[Koldo]

I just did provide evidence. My argument is logically sound. Can you make an argument contrary to what I said?

Where exactly did you mention your evidence ? Quote it.

 

[TheSounding]

Where did you mention your evidence ?

What would satisfy you as being evidence? I would say the fact that monotheism has virtually replaced polytheism is evidence. Considering the theory of evolution, monotheism has been naturally selected.

 

[Koldo]

What would satisfy you as being evidence? I would say the fact that monotheism has virtually replaced polytheism is evidence. Considering the theory of evolution, monotheism has been naturally selected.

What ? So, your evidence that monotheism leads to more happiness is that it replaced polytheism, and then you wrap it up in the ToE ?
First of all, how did you come to the conclusion that natural selection will lead to more happiness ?

 

[TheSounding]

First of all, how did you come to the conclusion that natural selection will lead to more happiness ?

1. Gratefulness yields happiness—According to this Ted talk, gratefulness essentially means happiness. No scientific study has been done to confirm this, only a keen observation was made.
2. Happiness by worship—Worship entails expressing gratitude and reverence in the form of ritual. The more frequent the ritual, the more happiness.
3. Worship in monotheism—Pure monotheism is the worship of one being as the creator of all things and whose will is present in everything. Worshipping the deity is worshipping its will.
   
4. Monotheism and ToE—The behavior of worshiping one deity has virtually replaced the behavior of worshiping multiple deities. This is evident by the rapid adoption of the Abrahamic faiths throughout the world within the last few thousand years. It's like studying the behavior of other primates. Advantageous behaviors replace disadvantageous behaviors.

If you would make a point to dispute this then why don't you apply it and make a determination. Case studies and documentation is hard evidence and something I would be hard-pressed to find, but it really doesn't matter when you can apply these principles with ease. I think many people consider monotheism and God in a way other than what it is. It is the essence which matters, and I believe the #1–4 description is that essence.

If you would make the time to dispute it, then take the time to apply it. Think of it as atheism in the name of God. It is good for goodness' sake.

 

[Etritonakin]

1) Your version of Christianity
2) I already answered that in that thread but I will post it here.

1. I would make equals that I could convene with and make it to where we could not harm one another.

2. I would refuse to be worshiped.

1: How?
2: What do you consider worship to be? What if they willed to worship you regardless of your refusal? What if they decided they did not like you? How could you be certain they could not harm you in any way -psychologically, by getting in your way and being annoying, messing up stuff you were doing, taking your stuff?

 

[Koldo]

1. Gratefulness yields happiness—According to this Ted talk, gratefulness essentially means happiness. No scientific study has been done to confirm this, only a keen observation.
2. Happiness by worship—Worship entails expressing gratitude and reverence in the form of ritual. The more frequent the ritual, the more happiness.
3. Worship in monotheism—Pure monotheism is the worship of one being as the creator of all things and whose will is present in everything. Worshipping the deity is worshipping its will.
   
4. Monotheism and ToE—The behavior of worshiping one deity has virtually replaced the behavior of worshiping multiple deities. This is evident by the rapid adoption of the Abrahamic faiths throughout the world within the last few thousand years. It's like studying the behavior of other primates. Advantageous behaviors replace disadvantageous behaviors.

If you would make a point to dispute this then why don't you apply it and make a determination. Case studies and documentation is hard evidence and something I would be hard-pressed to find, but they really don't matter when you can apply these principles with ease. If you would make the time to dispute it, then take the time to apply it. Think of it as atheism in the name of God.

What do you mean by 'advantageous behavior' ?

Both Christianity and Islam were spread through conquests and missionary work. It had nothing to do with leading to more happiness.

 

[TheSounding]

What do you mean by 'advantageous behavior' ?

I mean that species adapt based on their needs and they don't adopt behavior or features which do not meet their needs.

Both Christianity and Islam were spread through conquests and missionary work. It had nothing to do with leading to more happiness.

Well that and the merit of the messages. Christianity is more or less a message of compassion and forgiveness, and Islam is more or less a message of tolerance and order. I find your opinion to be rather cynical. It's as if you are saying their adoption was only by means of compulsion.

 

[Quintessence]

Well if you're the God who created the poverty in the first place, then you kind of are responsible for it.

Interesting. You may wish to give further thought to the notion of considering "responsibility" to be tied to having created something. The extended applications of this become... well... to use the word "absurd" is likely being kind.

But it sure would be amusing to hold all parents responsible for the actions of their children, no matter their age.

 

[Quagmire]

If no evil acts exist outside human opinion, then humans wouldn't be capable of doing evil.

No, if no evil acts exist outside of human opinion, then humans wouldn't be capable of doing evil outside of human opinion.

 

[dust1n]

No, if no evil acts exist outside of human opinion, then humans wouldn't be capable of doing evil outside of human opinion.

Sure. Which would render most religious teachings untenable. Clarification: Religious teachings based on an omnimax god.