How and why did you reject christ?

[BilliardsBall]

Micah 5:2 doesn't refer to Hezekiah, but to the Messiah.

"This verse refers to the Messiah, a descendant of David. Since David came from Bethlehem, Micah's prophecy speaks of Bethlehem as the Messiah's place of origin. Actually, the text does not necessarily mean the Messiah will be born in that town, but that his family originates from there. From the ancient family of the house of David will come forth the Messiah, whose eventual existence was known to God from the beginning of time." Will Messiah will be born in Bethlehem?

I have responded more than once. Hezekiah's names make statements about *God.* The ETERNAL FATHER is the Prince of Peace. Not Hezekiah. Do you at last get it?

This can't work, for the reasons I've already given.

Actually, this is the first post that I've quoted Jews for Judaism, or even visited that site. If I quote jews for judaism, I use quotation marks and I cite.

Are you claiming that people today can prove their lineage comes from David of Bethlehem? Are you saying there's a better candidate for Messiah coming that Yeshua, when Bethlehem means "House of Bread" and Yeshua claimed to be Heaven's manna and the bread of life broken for us on the cross?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Do you have thousands of years of Jewish understanding of the text? No, you don't. You are missing that. You are a Johnny come lately who thinks you can simply read it and know what it means. That's not good enough.

What does that have to do with what I wrote?

"Echad is linked to G_d in the Hebrew scriptures, including, of course, the shema. Sometimes echad is "first", sometimes "one", sometimes "plural unity" as in Genesis 2:24.

Do you have some Hebrew scriptures verses regarding God as yachid? That would help make RAMBAM's case, since echad is used hundreds of times in Tanakh, but yachid is never used, not ONE TIME, to describe God! You still don't see what Rambam has done?"

Are you claiming some rabbi was born with thousands of years of textual understanding, or that Rambam had such knowledge? This flies in the face of our tradition, that the shock of birth causes one to lose complete knowledge of Torah and that one must grasp for it/study for it for life.

Of course, the One who will complete our Torah knowledge is Mashiach, who has come and expounded on Torah.

Are you a man or a woman? A Noahide or a Jew? I was circumcised at home on the eighth day after birth and was Bar Mitzvah at one of America's most prominent synagoges. Where do you get from Torah, Talmud, Zohar or anywhere else that I cannot have accurate knowledge of Torah?

Are you going to address my points?

1) Rambam use yachid, a term that is NEVER used in Tanakh of God. This term is mostly used in Tanakh of a unique ONLY SON [like Yeshua].

2) Echad is used countless times in Tanakh of God. In Genesis 2:24, which I've asked you to address multiple times now, two persons become an echad, a plural unity, when they join intimately.

3) Elohim is used countless times in Tanakh of God, and it means "plural gods".

4) The Son of God, sons of God, and the Holy Spirit are also in Tanakh and in our liturgy.

5) Hezekiah is never called "Isaiah's names" anywhere besides Isaiah 9. Countless people around the world know Yeshua as the Son bearing governance literally on His shoulders (carrying His cross), as Wonderful Counselor and as the Prince of Peace. Isaiah didn't foresee that a billion Gentiles would sing on these names about Yeshua of Bethlehem?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

On what basis do you judge slavery and the Bible immoral (including things which only happened thousands of years ago) but fornication that you do today -- which can kill via STDs -- moral?

Slavery is owning someone is property. That deprives the person of selfhood, self autonomy, bodily autonomy, and what we regard as basic human rights.
Consensual sex involves no crimes or violations, and is very safe when following basic, common sense safety practices, such as using condoms and not sleeping around with people you don't know.

 

[Harel13]

Are you claiming that people today can prove their lineage comes from David of Bethlehem?

Depends how you define proof. No one can trace themselves genetically, but some can trace their family tree to David (which is the same way that the writers of the NT trace Jesus).

Are you saying there's a better candidate for Messiah coming that Yeshua, when Bethlehem means "House of Bread" and Yeshua claimed to be Heaven's manna and the bread of life broken for us on the cross?

Interestingly, Jews seem to be doing fine in the bread department without his help.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I didn't leave to br immoral. I didn't leave because I was a skeptic. I was a Christian, born again in Christ. The reasons I left is it was a very one sided and abusive relationship, I was miserable to the point of being suicidal, and when I needed god the most I turned to the Bible for guidance, but instead I found violence and cruelty. What I was taught by the Church and real facts I found are irreconcilable in many regards.
But, yes, how so "thou shalt not judge" Christianly of you to judge and assume and dismiss than accept the fact apostates of Christianity went apostate, not because we want to be immoral. But I won't worry. If your religion is true then you were explicitly prohibited from casting judgement, and by what measures ye mete it shall be measured you, which in this case is immorality and thinking you know it all, to the point hearing others out isn't worth considering. Whatever shall you do when your Lord treats you the same and proclaims he doesn't know you?

Yeah, I felt that I could only be loyal to the Truth, the Way and the Life by abandoning Christianity.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yeah, I felt that I could only be loyal to the Truth, the Way and the Life by abandoning Christianity.

I gave it entirely up because I had no will to live, was dead inside anyways, and the toxin had to be removed. I'm just glad I was exposed to facts (rather than bias) that contradict church teachings at a very vulnerable moment in my faith, and I was receptive to that new information presented to me. Without either of those two I would probably still belong to that cult.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Slavery is owning someone is property. That deprives the person of selfhood, self autonomy, bodily autonomy, and what we regard as basic human rights.
Consensual sex involves no crimes or violations, and is very safe when following basic, common sense safety practices, such as using condoms and not sleeping around with people you don't know.

Condoms cannot protect people from heartbreak. Look at statistics regarding cohabitation, for example, prior to marriage, and the correlation with divorce rates.

Condoms are not 100% effective against STDs or unplanned pregnancy.

Men who will not commit in marriage are often the first to fund the abortion and/or leave the woman as a single mother (internationally) perpetuating cycles of poverty and despair.

Abortion, like slavery, "deprives the person of selfhood, self autonomy, bodily autonomy, and what we regard as basic human rights". If you are against slavery you MUST to be consistent be pro life!

 

[BilliardsBall]

Depends how you define proof. No one can trace themselves genetically, but some can trace their family tree to David (which is the same way that the writers of the NT trace Jesus).

Interestingly, Jews seem to be doing fine in the bread department without his help.

Sarcasm aside, we gave thanks to the LORD GOD KING of the universe (three in One) daily for BREAD and VINE, Yeshua.

If we're "doing fine" for the last two millennia, you may have skipped accounting for diaspora and persecution, prophesied by Moses when the people would reject a great prophet like Moses. He was rejected in 30, the Temple was destroyed in 70, and 110 began a new diaspora.

 

[Harel13]

If we're "doing fine" for the last two millennia, you may have skipped accounting for diaspora and persecution, prophesied by Moses when the people would reject a great prophet like Moses. He was rejected in 30, the Temple was destroyed in 70, and 110 began a new diaspora.

And look where we are now - top of various industries, got our country back, etc.

And none of what I wrote was sarcastic.

 

[Harel13]

however, he didn't use yachid as a synonym for echad

In fact, he did.
The principle opens up with its title: Yichud Hashem. I'm sure you know how the principle would've been understood had he called it "Achdut Hashem", which implies a unification of individual objects.
When Jews say "Hashem Echad", it's not simply - there's only one God, but more than that (some things get lost in translation, especially when Christians are the translators...) - it's that there is only one like Hashem - and that's Hashem Himself - He's unique, which is exactly what Yichud means - uniqueness, no other like Him.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Abortion, like slavery, "deprives the person of selfhood, self autonomy, bodily autonomy, and what we regard as basic human rights".

No, abortion allows the mother autonomy over her own body and wellbeing.

If you are against slavery you MUST to be consistent be pro life!

You've made so many assumptions about me. They are all wrong. Are you consistent enough to be anti-war and against capital pinishment?

 

[BilliardsBall]

And look where we are now - top of various industries, got our country back, etc.

And none of what I wrote was sarcastic.

Yes. Are you familiar with the specific prophecies that pointed to May 1948 as the EXACT time for the end of the diaspora?!

 

[BilliardsBall]

In fact, he did.
The principle opens up with its title: Yichud Hashem. I'm sure you know how the principle would've been understood had he called it "Achdut Hashem", which implies a unification of individual objects.
When Jews say "Hashem Echad", it's not simply - there's only one God, but more than that (some things get lost in translation, especially when Christians are the translators...) - it's that there is only one like Hashem - and that's Hashem Himself - He's unique, which is exactly what Yichud means - uniqueness, no other like Him.

Sorry, you're not following my point:

Yachid is considered a synonym for echad--but it's no such thing in Tanakh. Tanakh never, not one time, uses yachid for Ha Shem. Indeed, yachid is used in Tanakh mostly to point out the uniqueness of an only begotten Son!

Echad is used an extraordinary number of times in Tanakh for God, and in places like Genesis 2:24, it is used as a clear statement of multiple oneness, a plurality.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, abortion allows the mother autonomy over her own body and wellbeing.

You've made so many assumptions about me. They are all wrong. Are you consistent enough to be anti-war and against capital pinishment?

Abortion gives one person rights by killing another person, making it the only "right" or "privilege" in law that is based on killing another, and the only constitutional freedom based on killing another.

I am consistent, since just war/self-defense and capital punishment are both biblical imperatives. Since you live as an atheist now, I assume you are consistent, and anti-war and anti-capital punishment. So should the Allies have been isolationist, for example, and let every Jew in Europe be murdered? And when the Nazis were captured, should they not have been hanged?

 

[Harel13]

Yes. Are you familiar with the specific prophecies that pointed to May 1948 as the EXACT time for the end of the diaspora?!

I've heard of those. Your point being?

 

[Harel13]

Sorry, you're not following my point:

I am. I'm just not willing to play the classic Christian game of stuffing Christianity into every nook and cranny, especially when it comes to smearing the Rambam.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes. Are you familiar with the specific prophecies that pointed to May 1948 as the EXACT time for the end of the diaspora?!

I don't think any prophecy points to specific times.

 

[Harel13]

I don't think any prophecy points to specific times.

I thought he was referring to the calculations made by the Vilna Gaon and others.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I thought he was referring to the calculations made by the Vilna Gaon and others.

Oh I know there are those who try to squeeze orange juice out of a stone, but I consider such attempts to be rubbish. My personal opinion. I'm not opinionated, am I? Take me with a grain of salt, but I really have no patience with people who read into prophecy things that are not in the text. The tendency for individuals, even the sages, to do this, is the main reason I just avoid studying prophecy as much as possible without being wholly ignorant. If it turns out I'm wrong, then hurray that I'm wrong.

 

[Harel13]

Oh I know there are those who try to squeeze orange juice out of a stone, but I consider such attempts to be rubbish. My personal opinion. I'm not opinionated, am I?

*Shrug* I've heard several rabbis consider those to be serious predictions by serious rabbis of past generations.