How and why did you reject christ?

[IndigoChild5559]

*Shrug* I've heard several rabbis consider those to be serious predictions by serious rabbis of past generations.

Yes I know. LIke I edited my post to say, this is a personal antagonism I have towards reading into text things that are not there. It reminds me too much of what Christians do. If I'm wrong, then more power to these rabbis.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Are you claiming that people today can prove their lineage comes from David of Bethlehem? Are you saying there's a better candidate for Messiah coming that Yeshua, when Bethlehem means "House of Bread" and Yeshua claimed to be Heaven's manna and the bread of life broken for us on the cross?

Yes. Although so many records were lost during the Holocaust, there remain some Jews who can prove their Davidic lineange.

I would say that Bar Kochba was a much better candidate for Messiah than Jesus -- at least he set about to fulfill the messianic prophecies. But ultimately he, like all the other messianic candidates, utterly failed. And if Bar Kochba failed, then certainly Jesus failed.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You cannot evict the Spirit from your life if you were born again.

Are you saying that by being "born again" you give up free will?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I've heard of those. Your point being?

The prophetic accuracy of the Hebrew scriptures is unparalled, in both gematria and readable prophecies. There are also hints and shadows.

Gematria, prophecy and hints and shadows in Tanakh all point to Yeshua as Messiah, undisputedly.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I am. I'm just not willing to play the classic Christian game of stuffing Christianity into every nook and cranny, especially when it comes to smearing the Rambam.

I'm not smearing our great safe. I'm pointing out facts from Tanakh. Since Tanakh uses echad and not yachid for God, RAMBAM made a choice that isn't scriptural, and the 13 points moved us more toward monotheism where Tanakh and more ancient sages saw God as plural.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I don't think any prophecy points to specific times.

Something you must believe firmly, or for example, Daniel's prophecy that 483 years would elapse between the decree to rebuild in Jerusalem and Messiah would add up to Pesach 30 AD in the Gentile calendar, absolute evidence that Yeshua is Mashiach.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Yes. Although so many records were lost during the Holocaust, there remain some Jews who can prove their Davidic lineange.

I would say that Bar Kochba was a much better candidate for Messiah than Jesus -- at least he set about to fulfill the messianic prophecies. But ultimately he, like all the other messianic candidates, utterly failed. And if Bar Kochba failed, then certainly Jesus failed.

How so? Yeshua fulfilled Messianic prophecy before He was born, when He was born, when He died. He rose, and fulfilled multiple Tanakh prophecies that Messiah would be worshiped worldwide by GENTILES, something not true of Bar Kochba.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Are you saying that by being "born again" you give up free will?

Romans 6 - God's gift is eternal life.

Romans 11 - God's gifts are irrevocable.

Receiving an imperishable gift does not abrogate my free will. However, God has a sovereign will and wants all persons to trust Messiah Yeshua to receive eternal life.

 

[Harel13]

Gematria, prophecy and hints and shadows in Tanakh all point to Yeshua as Messiah, undisputedly.

Hah! The great gematria expert. Here's one for you: Donald Trump=Mashiach ben David.
דונלד טראמפ=משיח בן דוד. Calculate it for yourself.
Gematria is meaningless when done by people who have no idea what they're doing.
Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, former Chief Rabbi of Israel and one of the most famous Kabbalists of our generation (before his passing) said that, for example, Abraham and Sarah's gematrias don't add up in any sort of way, certainly not a meaningful way - and this is the couple that brought about the Jewish people (and, subsequently, Christianity......)! So much for gematria.

As for prophecy and "hints" - well, you know my stance on that.

 

[Harel13]

ancient sages

Oh really? Got any examples?

I'm not smearing our great safe

Claiming Rambam thought God was wrong is smearing his name.

 

[syo]

Why did you reject christ after having a genuine personal relationship with and his god?

Christ said the Pagan Gods are fakes. So, I eliminated him.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christ said the Pagan Gods are fakes. So, I eliminated him.

Im confused.

You rejected christ after having a personal relationship with him because he said pagan gods were fake?

 

[syo]

Im confused.

You rejected christ after having a personal relationship with him because he said pagan gods were fake?

Yup.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yup.

Still confused. Why listen to someone you rejected?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

@Unveiled Artist

Hey, I just found this. This was my parish where I was baptized and confirmed as a teenager along with my mom. Just thought you'd enjoy it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Something you must believe firmly, or for example, Daniel's prophecy that 483 years would elapse between the decree to rebuild in Jerusalem and Messiah would add up to Pesach 30 AD in the Gentile calendar, absolute evidence that Yeshua is Mashiach.

Sir, I don't think Daniels prophecy is specific to any particular number of years. Sorry. Try something else.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

How so? Yeshua fulfilled Messianic prophecy before He was born, when He was born, when He died. He rose, and fulfilled multiple Tanakh prophecies that Messiah would be worshiped worldwide by GENTILES, something not true of Bar Kochba.

Look, we can go back and forth saying "No, he didn't," "Yes he did" until the cows come home. I have a better idea.

Why don't you pick ONE prophecy that you think Jesus fulfilled. Make sure you think that out of all the prophecies, this is the best, most indisputable case. Find the prophecy in the Tanakh and quote that. Then find and quote where in your gospels he fulfilled it. Make sure it's your very best example.

We can take the conversation from there.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Romans 6 - God's gift is eternal life.

Romans 11 - God's gifts are irrevocable.

Receiving an imperishable gift does not abrogate my free will. However, God has a sovereign will and wants all persons to trust Messiah Yeshua to receive eternal life.

Just give me a yes or no-- pretend I'm an idiot. I need to keep things simple. Do you give up having free will when you become "born again?"

By the way, the phrase "God's gifts are irrevocable is a referrence Paul makes to the eternal covenant between God and Israel. It has nothing to do with whether a Jew can disobey our covenant.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Hah! The great gematria expert. Here's one for you: Donald Trump=Mashiach ben David.
Donald Trump = Messiah cousin. Calculate it for yourself.
Gematria is meaningless when done by people who have no idea what they're doing.
Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, former Chief Rabbi of Israel and one of the most famous Kabbalists of our generation (before his passing) said that, for example, Abraham and Sarah's gematrias don't add up in any sort of way, certainly not a meaningful way - and this is the couple that brought about the Jewish people (and, subsequently, Christianity......)! So much for gematria.

As for prophecy and "hints" - well, you know my stance on that.

I agree gematria is meaningless without focus. For example, the names of 11 apostles are in Isaiah 53--the Messianic prophecy chapter.

Now, watch! Which of the 12 apostles's names is NOT in Isaiah 53?

No, please refresh my mind. You said something like "prophecies in Tanakh do not provide dates". Yet hundreds of already fulfilled prophecies about wars, miracles, etc. are in Tanakh, with statements like both the day and month the oracle was spoken and the day each prophecy came to pass!

 

[Harel13]

No, please refresh my mind. You said something like "prophecies in Tanakh do not provide dates".

Did I say that? You may be confusing me with @IndigoChild5559

Now, watch! Which of the 12 apostles's names is NOT in Isaiah 53?

*sigh* Let me guess, Judas?

I agree gematria is meaningless without focus. For example, the names of 11 apostles are in Isaiah 53--the Messianic prophecy chapter.

I consider this unfocused gematria usage by Christians who have no clue what they're doing and just adding up random numbers.