How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

Is that part of Islam belief as a whole or a "denomination" within Islam?

Certainly not part of mainstream Islam or they wouldn't have destroyed countless Krishna temples, lol.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The motive IS the action. We can change the words but the concept is the same.

A person doesn't learn to swim by reading a book and then jumping in the water. Of course knowledge helps know what everything is but the lesson isn't in the book, it's the actual practice.

The lesson is the practice not the result of it.

Understand?



I'm saying compassion (for example) IS the action or deed. Understand?



If I took a knife and killed someone just because, no motive, or anything like that, should I consider it neutral unless I have a motive behind it?

For me, the act of killing is bad regardless the person's motives. The act is the motive.



I understand that. Do you understand what I'm saying, though?

Regardless of how you take care of the lamb, the taking care of is the most important part not the motive behind it.



I put more emphasis on action because within the action is the compassion and love or the evil if you like. If not, then in your view, you can have abortion as long as it's for the right reasons.



I'm dating. The lady I am with we've been together for a good month and a half. She has a lot on her plate and we were getting close but then I decide that even though I'm still infatuated, there is a lot of things she has to handle with her family before going into any relationship. My decisions and motives mean nothing in and of themselves. You can see this as good another person can say its bad.

However, the good/bad part I only know because of the action I do. When I actually talk to her, that action alone is how she interprets what I do is good or bad. We can talk all day long but until there is an action, motives, decisions, etc don't stand up.

A lot of traditionalist who marry and want to part stay married because they made a physical vow to stay married until death do they part. That physical vow is much stronger than saying "I love you today now I don't tomorrow."

Physical is very important. Actions are the motives. Intimacy can't be intimacy unless you are intimate. Murder isn't considered a murder unless you actually murder someone. Motives are in the killing.



Governments have their own "morals." I don't agree with war regardless of how good the reasons are and how the statistics raise up for killing people.

That act of killing is immoral to me and no logistics or decisions can be separate from the action itself.

Understand?

You said that knowledge helps you know. That's an admission by you that theoretical knowledge is required apart from just practical. You also agree that they go hand in hand. The thing is you're basically agreeing that our deeds cant just be mindless acts but are premeditated.

Really we are agreeing just in different words.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How, exactly do Bahais worship, loverofhumanity?

Through prayer and meditation.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You said that knowledge helps you know. That's an admission by you that theoretical knowledge is required apart from just practical. You also agree that they go hand in hand. The thing is you're basically agreeing that our deeds cant just be mindless acts but are premeditated.

Really we are agreeing just in different words.

Haha. Really? I know Bahai try to see similarities but you also got to see differences to. Not all of us have the same compassion.

You said that knowledge helps you know.

I said knowledge is motive or compassion.

That's an admission by you that theoretical knowledge is required apart from just practical.

Never mentioned theoretical. I just said knowledge is practice.

You also agree that they go hand in hand.

You keep missing it. They ARE each other. Not hand in hand. Not a reflect of. No. They are one.

The thing is you're basically agreeing that our deeds cant just be mindless acts but are premeditated.

No. I never said that. That is something you put together from your understanding of what I said not what I actually said. That's why interpretations arent good without having clarification first.

Killing is a deed.
Taking care of is a deed.

If I killed someone who was trying to attack me, that is immoral. Yes, self defense, sure. But the act of killing is immoral.

The reasons, motives, etc have nothing to do with it separate from the act itself.

Same thing with the lamb story you gave me. Regardless of the reasons the farmer takes care of the lamb, the act of "Taking care of someone or animal" is the motive itself.

If a killer and a non-killer saved a child from drowning and the former still felt killing is right and the latter felt it is wrong, would that change the moral action of actually saving the child...

or would you judge that child's salvation based on the motives of the people who saved them?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Haha. Really? I know Bahai try to see similarities but you also got to see differences to. Not all of us have the same compassion.



I said knowledge is motive or compassion.



Never mentioned theoretical. I just said knowledge is practice.



You keep missing it. They ARE each other. Not hand in hand. Not a reflect of. No. They are one.



No. I never said that. That is something you put together from your understanding of what I said not what I actually said. That's why interpretations arent good without having clarification first.

Killing is a deed.
Taking care of is a deed.

If I killed someone who was trying to attack me, that is immoral. Yes, self defense, sure. But the act of killing is immoral.

The reasons, motives, etc have nothing to do with it separate from the act itself.

Same thing with the lamb story you gave me. Regardless of the reasons the farmer takes care of the lamb, the act of "Taking care of someone or animal" is the motive itself.

If a killer and a non-killer saved a child from drowning and the former still felt killing is right and the latter felt it is wrong, would that change the moral action of actually saving the child...

or would you judge that child's salvation based on the motives of the people who saved them?

Until an act has been carried out the thought is still in the mind. And it can remain there for as long as is needed to reflect upon whether taking a certain course of action is wise or not.

The act is not the thought until the thought becomes a decision. The act and th decision may be the same but the thought may take on all sorts of reasoning and reflection before any decision is made.

Usually before translating a thought into an action, further reflection is required upon possible consequences of how the translation compares to the desired result. Then acting we see what are the consequences. But we think about it first before acting or should.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Until an act has been carried out the thought is still in the mind. And it can remain there for as long as is needed to reflect upon whether taking a certain course of action is wise or not.

The act is not the thought until the thought becomes a decision. The act and th decision may be the same but the thought may take on all sorts of reasoning and reflection before any decision is made.

Usually before translating a thought into an action, further reflection is required upon possible consequences of how the translation compares to the desired result. Then acting we see what are the consequences. But we think about it first before acting or should.

My point: Charity is an action not a feeling, decision, intention, or motive.

1. If I give money to someone, that "giving money" regardless the motive is charity.

2. The verb: Give ... is a motive or compassion in itself.

3. How you give, when, why, and to whom does not change the fact that giving is a moral thing.

4. Taking is sometimes seen as immoral but everything is in the laws of cause and effect. Taking-the verb-is part of life and just as moral as giving.

5. How, when, why, and to whom you take from does not matter.

I'm not talking about one needs to decide to make an action. Even though that's not always true since seizures aren't decisions but they cause many actions of the body. So it depends.

What I'm saying is compassion is an action. The act of giving is an action.

It has nothing to do with your reasons and decisions. That's dependant on the person.

That is not my point.

 

[Vinayaka]

Through prayer and meditation.

That's too vague for me. Do you pray like in Islam, like in Christianity? Are prayers in silence, or aloud in Arabic? Or in English?

What type of meditation do you do? Is it guided? How do you sit? In lotus, on a chair, lying down? Do you use mantrams?

It seems, from your answer, that the Bahai practices are just as vague as the Bahai philosophy is. The philosophy is purposefully vague, drawing hither thither from all other religions, picking and choosing, surely the actual practices are more specific? Or not?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Maybe. Maybe not. You think you might be free, but maybe, maybe not.

There is a siddhi for realised mystics who can travel like that. Consciously, not in a dream.

Justice in Hinduism comes by the way of the natural law of karma. There is no justice day, or outside force judging anyone. But you're free to believe in that if you wish. It's another indication of how alligned to Abrahamism Bahai is, and how different it is from the dharmic religions.

I think we are the real judges against ourselves. Our actions and behaviour determine our justice.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think we are the real judges against ourselves. Our actions and behaviour determine our justice.

Yes that is how karma operates. We create our own future. Many people view karma as only from the past to the present. A better view in my opinion is to realise you're creating it every day. Yes the past to present type explains 'Why is this happening to me?" but for character development purposes, the present to future is more apt. So it's like building a stone temple, for future generations, but in the case of karma, because we believe in reincarnation, it is for yourself too.

But it's not an intellectual exercise either. It's a spiritual process. We have to get rid of the ego/personality in order to build the future.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's too vague for me. Do you pray like in Islam, like in Christianity? Are prayers in silence, or aloud in Arabic? Or in English?

What type of meditation do you do? Is it guided? How do you sit? In lotus, on a chair, lying down? Do you use mantrams?

It seems, from your answer, that the Bahai practices are just as vague as the Bahai philosophy is. The philosophy is purposefully vague, drawing hither thither from all other religions, picking and choosing, surely the actual practices are more specific? Or not?

Yes we can pray like in Islam and like in Christianity or cross legged like in Buddhism. Prayers can be silent, aloud or chanting or in any language we speak.

Meditation is the same. No set form of meditation exists. We can sit or stand or lie or use the lotus position, whatever the individual finds works for him/her. But we are told that meditation on the Words of God have the most power. That action and deeds should follow and personal transformation the goal. To become more virtuous and spiritual.

1.We have a choice of one of three obligatory prayers to choose from that must be said daily.

2. A Baha'i must also read the sacred texts morning and evening. A small verse is sufficient.

3. We have Houses of Worship but they are for all humanity not us specifically. We read from the Holy Scriptures of all Faiths every week in them.

We also have special prayers for difficulties and things like healing that are invested with a special power and potency and lots of meditations.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes that is how karma operates. We create our own future. Many people view karma as only from the past to the present. A better view in my opinion is to realise you're creating it every day. Yes the past to present type explains 'Why is this happening to me?" but for character development purposes, the present to future is more apt. So it's like building a stone temple, for future generations, but in the case of karma, because we believe in reincarnation, it is for yourself too.

But it's not an intellectual exercise either. It's a spiritual process. We have to get rid of the ego/personality in order to build the future.

This really struck me the other day because I have been through similar circumstances long ago and was shocked in a way to read this but agree with the truth in it.

To nurse a grievance or hatred against another soul is spiritually poisonous to the soul which nurses it. (Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, 5 January 1992)

You are dead right. It's the ego that has to be disempowered so as not to dominate our world so much. I wish for the day we can attain to that so that we can drop all this silly stuff and just all get along. It's just so childish to have all these aggressions and wars. But people I suppose need to learn one way or another that aggression leads nowhere.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes we can pray like in Islam and like in Christianity or cross legged like in Buddhism. Prayers can be silent, aloud or chanting or in any language we speak.

Thanks. Good to know you're not using Hindu methods. That would undoubtedly be more confusing.

So just how does a Bahai choose what to do?

 

[Vinayaka]

This really struck me the other day because I have been through similar circumstances long ago and was shocked in a way to read this but agree with the truth in it.

Some people think they can hide or run from their karma, but they can't. We (Hindus) see ego as a very large boulder on the path. When I worked with a board of trustees, or on committees at school, any individual with a large ego wanting to do everything his or her way was just a waste of valuable time for everyone.

 

[Dawnofhope]

A true Christian will not be quick to believe words which are 'pleasing to the ear'; But will check it with the Written Word.

That is true. So how come you don't go to church anymore?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Come on, really?

The Church meaning the body of christ-the brothers and sisters who believe the same as you do and visa versa. The Church means the People of Christ not a building or denomination.

That's sounds like the church I left. Everyone has to believe the same or they are not true believers. Unity in conformity. That is why there was the schism between protestant and catholic. Too little latitude for independent thought.

If you are not one with that body, then I don't see how that's being part of the body of Christ when Christ in scripture says for you all to come together to make him present in his Church (the Mass/the People coming together).

I would rather be one with Christ Teachings than with an organisation that claims to represent Him.

that and...

That is why I am not Christian because it is wrong to pick and choose beliefs. I don't have a religion (a practice with like-minded people) for that very reason. But picking teachings from Christ, reinterpreting them through Bahaullah's eyes, not wanting to be part of his body, then recognize yourself as christian regardless if you name yourself christian or not staggers me.

Was your reason for leaving different from mine? I still believed, but had beliefs that were contrary to my church. This started five years before I left the church. I was thinking for myself, rather than blindly following what I was taught. 'Be staggered', but that's just the way it is.

 

[Dawnofhope]

He provided a way out of our tormented existence resulting from wrong choices. All we have to do is accept it.

However many people find their way out of such torment through other faiths or no faith, and some Christians seem very tormented.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Thanks. Good to know you're not using Hindu methods. That would undoubtedly be more confusing.

So just how does a Bahai choose what to do?

It's all up to each individual. Today is a very special Holy Day. The day Baha'u'llah announced in Baghdad that He was the Promised One. The Baha'i day begins at sunset so the holy day began last night. Baha'is come together on such ocassins and choose some readings and prayers and for an hour or two will commemorate such an event.

We also have what is a 19 Day Feast. A Baha'i calendar month is 19 days. So our year is 19 months of 19 days each. At the beginning of each Bahá'í month we come together to have devotions and consultation.

We also have a Universal spiritual educational curriculum that is practised in every country for Baha'is of all ages for children, junior youth and adults.

But all these activities are voluntary. The only obligatory devotions are the daily obligatory prayer and to read a passage at morning and evening. So a Baha'i can make it as simple or as complex as he/she wishes but moderation is highly advised by Baha'u'llah not to tire oneself out by reading too much.

 

[Vinayaka]

It's all up to each individual. Today is a very special Holy Day. The day Baha'u'llah announced in Baghdad that He was the Promised One. The Baha'i day begins at sunset so the holy day began last night. Baha'is come together on such ocassins and choose some readings and prayers and for an hour or two will commemorate such an event.

We also have what is a 19 Day Feast. A Baha'i calendar month is 19 days. So our year is 19 months of 19 days each. At the beginning of each Bahá'í month we come together to have devotions and consultation.

We also have a Universal spiritual educational curriculum that is practised in every country for Baha'is of all ages for children, junior youth and adults.

But all these activities are voluntary. The only obligatory devotions are the daily obligatory prayer and to read a passage at morning and evening. So a Baha'i can make it as simple or as complex as he/she wishes but moderation is highly advised by Baha'u'llah not to tire oneself out by reading too much.

I hope you have a good day then. I'm always amazed at how prophet based religions have the individual proclaiming, rather than a natural happening based on inner attainment. The sages in India just sat, and the crowds gathered because the sage was wise, not because he made some bold proclamation about being the next prophet. A few did yes, but not many, and those that did were largely unsuccessful, if size of following is any measure of success. (It sure wouldn't be for me, inner attainment would be.) In Hinduism we don't go looking for fame, it just happens by. So many quiet sages operating all over.

That's interesting about the calendar. My New year was just 6 days back. The degree of religiousity varies a lot in Hinduism, but those who are religious spend a great amount of time at it. The priest. pundits, many orders of monks, are full time. In a survey that compared how much time people spent at religion, India as a country far exceeded anywhere else. Many Hindus go to temple daily, or do daily ritual early morning in the home. It rubs off on the other religions too, as even many Christian churches are open daily. And the annual pilgrimage each serious one is obliged to take may be up to a month.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Some people think they can hide or run from their karma, but they can't. We (Hindus) see ego as a very large boulder on the path. When I worked with a board of trustees, or on committees at school, any individual with a large ego wanting to do everything his or her way was just a waste of valuable time for everyone.

How do Hindus view humanity's history of war and violence and what is the solution?

 

[Dawnofhope]

"christ, krishna, buddha, and muhammad have the same god"

That is what Ahmadiyya believe, and its clues are very much in Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
Regards

The Ahmadiyya is the reformation movement in Islam by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) - the Promised Messiah, Imam Mahdi and the End Time reformer of all revealed religions. Yes, he is the Krishna in Second Coming also.
Regards

You might like to talk to @Carlita and @Vinayaka about cultural misappropriation.

Is it mentioned in Quran? Please
If yes, then please quote from Quran in this connection.
Anybody, please
Regards

@InvestigateTruth is a Baha'i from a Muslim background who can answer all your questions. @loverofhumanity and @arthra are knowledgeable too. The Bab (forerunner to Baha'u'llah) is a Mahdi claimant too so they can't both be right.

List of Mahdi claimants - Wikipedia