How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

I have no idea how to interpret your prophet's words. That's for you to do. He's not my prophet.

In Hinduism, individuality is lost what Atman finally becomes Brahman, and before that, the soul body finds a new physical body repeatedly in the process called reincarnation.

So you'll still be trapped in another physical body in this world while I'll still be me but like a bird free of my cage to visit and experience all the worlds of God?

I dreamt once I died and I wanted to travel but didn't know how as I was just suspended in the air. Then I sensed other beings and they telepathically told me just to think or imagine and I would be there. So I thought and I was there. It was thought travel and quite possibly is our way of getting around in other worlds.

But the one catch. And here is where justice comes in for all of us. If we don't lose our identity then we must face up for eternity to our deeds and acts in this life. So for some that would make them feel happy forever but for others, miserable living with the realisation one may have done some evil that can't be undone.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Another way to explain it is you can learn about how deep the pool is, learn how to flap your arms and kick in the water (without going in the water), and look at diagrams of the human body. Then you say "okay, now you know how to swim because you first learned about it now you can swim."

Then she jumps in the water and drowns because no one ever taught her that the lesson was in the action not just what was written down.

When you take a Driver's test in writing, you'd think because we know it in knowledge, when we get behind the will, we are fine. Then we get behind the wheel and realize we don't know how to drive. The lesson IS the action not one before the other.

We either act on instincts and feelings or we 'choose' to be generous or compassionate or kind. We first make a 'choice' in our minds or hearts then we proceed.

How do you be compassionate without the action?

What does compassionate and love feel like?

You choose your destination first then hop in your car and drive to it. You don't just jump in your car not having any knowledge of where you're going!!

You're talking about something different. I'm saying in order to learn something, it isn't just gathering knowledge. Knowledge (or Wisdom) IS action.

It's first to know or make a conscious decision then to act.

I'm saying knowledge, compassion, etc are actions. How we learn, feel compassionate, etc are actions.

I gave so many examples, have you read them? The sex vs. intimacy?

 

[Evie]

So you'll still be trapped in another physical body in this world while I'll still be me but like a bird free of my cage to visit and experience all the worlds of God?

I dreamt once I died and I wanted to travel but didn't know how as I was just suspended in the air. Then I sensed other beings and they telepathically told me just to think or imagine and I would be there. So I thought and I was there. It was thought travel and quite possibly is our way of getting around in other worlds.

But the one catch. And here is where justice comes in for all of us. If we don't lose our identity then we must face up for eternity to our deeds and acts in this life. So for some that would make them feel happy forever but for others, miserable living with the realisation one may have done some evil that can't be undone.

There are none that have never done wrong. Only Jesus. So every single person would be in an eternal hell. Through belief in Jesus and the Gospel such can be avoided. Whether my belief in this is justified or not, it is my belief and I am entitled to it. As others are entitled not to believe as I do but choose to believe otherwise.

 

[Vinayaka]

What was post 2711 ?

Right above here, where you gave a bible quote, and nothing else. You said you are here to answer questions, so I asked you which question you were answering in my post that you quoted. (Hint: there was no question.)

 

[Vinayaka]

So you'll still be trapped in another physical body in this world while I'll still be me but like a bird free of my cage to visit and experience all the worlds of God?

I dreamt once I died and I wanted to travel but didn't know how as I was just suspended in the air. Then I sensed other beings and they telepathically told me just to think or imagine and I would be there. So I thought and I was there. It was thought travel and quite possibly is our way of getting around in other worlds.

But the one catch. And here is where justice comes in for all of us. If we don't lose our identity then we must face up for eternity to our deeds and acts in this life. So for some that would make them feel happy forever but for others, miserable living with the realisation one may have done some evil that can't be undone.

Maybe. Maybe not. You think you might be free, but maybe, maybe not.

There is a siddhi for realised mystics who can travel like that. Consciously, not in a dream.

Justice in Hinduism comes by the way of the natural law of karma. There is no justice day, or outside force judging anyone. But you're free to believe in that if you wish. It's another indication of how alligned to Abrahamism Bahai is, and how different it is from the dharmic religions.

 

[paarsurrey]

Well. I dont doubt what you say. I dont know if it would help with bahai claim. Depends on whoever is interested in knowing Muslim belief.

I kinda figured bahaullah didnt have a place in Islam. I did know that Muhammads teachings wasnt relevant only for his period. What got me with bahai belief is that christ, krishna, buddha, and muhammad have the same god and are progressive revelations of religions until todays revelation to replace traditions that cause war and division.

What can I say.

"christ, krishna, buddha, and muhammad have the same god"

That is what Ahmadiyya believe, and its clues are very much in Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
Regards

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"christ, krishna, buddha, and muhammad have the same god"

That is what Ahmadiyya believe, and its clues are very much in Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
Regards

What's Ahmadiyya?

Krishna, though?

 

[paarsurrey]

The main claim is that he is the return of the promised one of all religions, including Islam. One of the Baha'is here can give to the details, but they're in this thread already.... somewhere.

"The main claim is that he is the return of the promised one of all religions, including Islam"
This is what the Ahmadiyya claim is, and its basis are in Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

 

[Vinayaka]

Krishna, though?

Yes, Ahmadiya Muslims also project the Abrahamic stuff into Hinduism. Hey, if I'm swimming in the Atlantic, I suppose I'm also swimming in the Pacific. Very eerily similar to Bahai ... and non-violent. I feel Islam could use a few more of these movements.

 

[paarsurrey]

What's Ahmadiyya?
Krishna, though?

The Ahmadiyya is the reformation movement in Islam by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) - the Promised Messiah, Imam Mahdi and the End Time reformer of all revealed religions. Yes, he is the Krishna in Second Coming also.
Regards

 

[loverofhumanity]

Another way to explain it is you can learn about how deep the pool is, learn how to flap your arms and kick in the water (without going in the water), and look at diagrams of the human body. Then you say "okay, now you know how to swim because you first learned about it now you can swim."

Then she jumps in the water and drowns because no one ever taught her that the lesson was in the action not just what was written down.

When you take a Driver's test in writing, you'd think because we know it in knowledge, when we get behind the will, we are fine. Then we get behind the wheel and realize we don't know how to drive. The lesson IS the action not one before the other.



How do you be compassionate without the action?

What does compassionate and love feel like?



You're talking about something different. I'm saying in order to learn something, it isn't just gathering knowledge. Knowledge (or Wisdom) IS action.



I'm saying knowledge, compassion, etc are actions. How we learn, feel compassionate, etc are actions.

I gave so many examples, have you read them? The sex vs. intimacy?

I'm not saying the deed or action isn't important. I'm just saying the deed is born first in the conscious mind then it becomes an action. Without being first a thought it can't happen.

The deed or action ends up becoming what's important. But the motive behind the deed can make it good or bad.

Let's take a lamb for instance. You rear a lamb and care for it but motive is important here. If your motive is to care and protect it so you can fatten it in order to kill it and eat it then that is different from if you just keep it as a pet and want to protect it because you like it. In this case care and concern are both shown the lamb but the motives are different. One motive is selfish and the other compassionate.

So motive is all important when you do something. You're saying the thought or motive doesn't matter and is not worth even examining. So say someone gets married just for money and then the marriage breaks up when the person is broke. A life gets destroyed in the process.

Our private motives matter not just our actions because an action can appear the same outwardly but if prompted by an evil motive eventually will bring harm. The motive is extremely important. And they are separate because until you act you are contemplating, thinking, reflecting and meditating in it beforehand. Then you make a decision. Then you act. Then the consequences.

It can be a quick split second decision or take months to decide say in the case of marriage. The thought process is separate from the action until the action is performed according to what the thought settled on.

Governments don't just go out and act. They consult and think about the issue first. Then decide. Then act. 3 separate processes not just an action.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@loverofhumanity

I remember years ago going to a Christian chat room. One guy, very fundamental christian, really honed in on non-christians and denominations he didn't agree with.

Then we got to talking about prayer. He said the way to pray is Our Father. So, I said, that's fine. Then we were talking about christians going to meditation centers and doing yoga as prayer.

I asked, what is wrong with that?

The first and only question I know that got this he says, "because Yoga in itself is a prayer (a devotional act)" so when one practices yoga they are doing a non-christian devotional act. They can pray to jesus but the act itself is the prayer and because it is, they are going against the bible.

He put more emphasis on the act and what it means rather than on the results of the act and the benefits that came from it.

Compassion, love, and all of that not a result of action; they ARE actions. Many religions and myself included, see compassion and these things as actions whether in devotion like yoga or just dance ritual.

Think of it this way.

Go in front of a statue of Mary and pray the Lord's Prayer.

If you feel uncomfortable praying in front of the statue of Mary, is it the block of Marble that's making you uncomfortable or is it something inside you that's making you uncomfortable? If physical isn't embedded in spiritual, why be uncomfortable?

Things of that nature.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Ahmadiyya is the reformation movement in Islam by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) - the Promised Messiah, Imam Mahdi and the End Time reformer of all revealed religions. Yes, he is the Krishna in Second Coming also.
Regards

Is that part of Islam belief as a whole or a "denomination" within Islam?

 

[paarsurrey]

It won't be of use as Baha'is believe that the religion of Muhammad is relevant till doomsday also, the difference is we believe that doomsday has already come.
You might understand how Baha'is believe this from the Quran if you peruse point IV on this website Some Notes on Bahá'í Proofs Based on the Qur'an
Kind regards

"the difference is we believe that doomsday has already come."
Please elaborate it.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Actually the Baha'i Faith is more of a fulfillment of the prophecies about the return of the Twelfth Imam in Shiah Islam... there were actually two movements separated by ocean and continents and wide cultural disparity...
.... I'm refering to two parallel historical movements.. One beginning in north america known as the Millerite movement that focused on the expected return of Christ in 1844 ... and the shakhi movement in Persia that centered largely around Shakh Ahmad and Siyyid Kazim that expected the reappearance of the Twelfth Imam in the year 60 or 1260 AH of the Muslim calendar. It happens that these dates coincided 1844 AD and 1260 AH with the Declaration of Siyyid Ali Muhammad of Shiraz the "Bab"- Gate that He was the Promised One the expected Mahdi... Mirza Husayn Ali latter known as Baha'u'llah was "Him Whom God would make manifest" mentioned by the Bab. So it was in this context. The Judgement Day was the end of the prophetic cycle and the beginning of the cycle of fulfillment.

Is it mentioned in Quran? Please
If yes, then please quote from Quran in this connection.
Anybody, please
Regards

 

[loverofhumanity]

@loverofhumanity

I remember years ago going to a Christian chat room. One guy, very fundamental christian, really honed in on non-christians and denominations he didn't agree with.

Then we got to talking about prayer. He said the way to pray is Our Father. So, I said, that's fine. Then we were talking about christians going to meditation centers and doing yoga as prayer.

I asked, what is wrong with that?

The first and only question I know that got this he says, "because Yoga in itself is a prayer (a devotional act)" so when one practices yoga they are doing a non-christian devotional act. They can pray to jesus but the act itself is the prayer and because it is, they are going against the bible.

He put more emphasis on the act and what it means rather than on the results of the act and the benefits that came from it.

Compassion, love, and all of that not a result of action; they ARE actions. Many religions and myself included, see compassion and these things as actions whether in devotion like yoga or just dance ritual.

Think of it this way.

Go in front of a statue of Mary and pray the Lord's Prayer.

If you feel uncomfortable praying in front of the statue of Mary, is it the block of Marble that's making you uncomfortable or is it something inside you that's making you uncomfortable? If physical isn't embedded in spiritual, why be uncomfortable?

Things of that nature.

People who want to pray to or in front of statues that's their right to freedom of worship. It doesn't worry or bother me at all as that's their choice and we respect that.

We worship differently.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is that part of Islam belief as a whole or a "denomination" within Islam?

Ahmadiyya is not a new religion. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has brought no new Law Book. He follows Quran. It is for the whole world.
Regards

 

[loverofhumanity]

Is it mentioned in Quran? Please
If yes, then please quote from Quran in this connection.
Anybody, please
Regards

Hi paarsurrey. Here's something I hope you'll find useful if you can be patient to read a bit by bit over time. It may answer some of your questions. Best Regards.

Baha'u'llah: The Great Announcement of the Qur'an

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So motive is all important when you do something. You're saying the thought or motive doesn't matter and is not worth even examining. So say someone gets married just for money and then the marriage breaks up when the person is broke. A life gets destroyed in the process.

The motive IS the action. We can change the words but the concept is the same.

A person doesn't learn to swim by reading a book and then jumping in the water. Of course knowledge helps know what everything is but the lesson isn't in the book, it's the actual practice.

The lesson is the practice not the result of it.

Understand?

I'm not saying the deed or action isn't important. I'm just saying the deed is born first in the conscious mind then it becomes an action. Without being first a thought it can't happen.

I'm saying compassion (for example) IS the action or deed. Understand?

The deed or action ends up becoming what's important. But the motive behind the deed can make it good or bad.

If I took a knife and killed someone just because, no motive, or anything like that, should I consider it neutral unless I have a motive behind it?

For me, the act of killing is bad regardless the person's motives. The act is the motive.

Let's take a lamb for instance. You rear a lamb and care for it but motive is important here. If your motive is to care and protect it so you can fatten it in order to kill it and eat it then that is different from if you just keep it as a pet and want to protect it because you like it. In this case care and concern are both shown the lamb but the motives are different. One motive is selfish and the other compassionate.

I understand that. Do you understand what I'm saying, though?

Regardless of how you take care of the lamb, the taking care of is the most important part not the motive behind it.

Our private motives matter not just our actions because an action can appear the same outwardly but if prompted by an evil motive eventually will bring harm. The motive is extremely important. And they are separate because until you act you are contemplating, thinking, reflecting and meditating in it beforehand. Then you make a decision. Then you act. Then the consequences.

I put more emphasis on action because within the action is the compassion and love or the evil if you like. If not, then in your view, you can have abortion as long as it's for the right reasons.

It n be a quick split second decision or take months to decide say in the case of marriage. The thought process is separate from the action until the action is performed according to what the thought settled on.

I'm dating. The lady I am with we've been together for a good month and a half. She has a lot on her plate and we were getting close but then I decide that even though I'm still infatuated, there is a lot of things she has to handle with her family before going into any relationship. My decisions and motives mean nothing in and of themselves. You can see this as good another person can say its bad.

However, the good/bad part I only know because of the action I do. When I actually talk to her, that action alone is how she interprets what I do is good or bad. We can talk all day long but until there is an action, motives, decisions, etc don't stand up.

A lot of traditionalist who marry and want to part stay married because they made a physical vow to stay married until death do they part. That physical vow is much stronger than saying "I love you today now I don't tomorrow."

Physical is very important. Actions are the motives. Intimacy can't be intimacy unless you are intimate. Murder isn't considered a murder unless you actually murder someone. Motives are in the killing.

Governments don't just go out and act. They consult and think about the issue first. Then decide. Then act. 3 separate processes not just an action.

Governments have their own "morals." I don't agree with war regardless of how good the reasons are and how the statistics raise up for killing people.

That act of killing is immoral to me and no logistics or decisions can be separate from the action itself.

Understand?

 

[Vinayaka]

We worship differently.

How, exactly do Bahais worship, loverofhumanity?