How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

How will Baha'u'llah unite the Faiths without destroying diversity

This is a topic of great concern to many and rightfully so. What will happen to diversity of culture, tradition and custom if we have only One Universal Cause, One Common Faith, which is the remedy Bahaullah has prescribed for this age?

If everyone were to become a Bahá'í, would it mean there be no more church services, no more Buddhist chants, or puja offered to
Shiva? Would there be no more Christmas, Divali or Passover?

Bahá'í Faith and Religious Diversity

With the acceptance of Baha'u'llah it does not mean the abandonment of the basic foundation of ones previous Faith but a new and much deeper appreciation of its truths and added to that laws which are relevant for this day and age. It would mean for most, the fulfillment of the prophecies of their own Faith.

Whereas in past ages we used oil lamps and candles, electricity is not seen as an affront or insult to previous uses of light but a greater endowment of it. One can still use candles and oil lamps but who cannot see the overwhelming advantage of electric light?

So too with the Baha'i Revelation. It's not in competition with the past religions a massive improvement upon them which we believe all people will embrace as seamlessly as they moved from the candle to electric lighting.

The Baha'i Teachings are an advantage to those suffering racial discrimination, an advantage to women who have been treated unequally for thousands of years, as a uniting factor replacing nationalism with a global village where people are no longer valued or devalued by their religion, race, culture or nationality but all receive equal rights. Extremes of wealth and poverty will be eliminated as will war be abolished.

The religions of the past, what becomes of them if we have only one Faith?

They all become part of that one Faith and are not destroyed or left behind because Baha'u'llah is the One prophesied in most of their Holy Books so they would see Him and His religion, as we all have, as an integral part of their religion's fulfillment. This is who we Baha'is are. People who discovered that the Promised One of our religion has appeared.

The Bahá'í Faith will never interfere with people who want to celebrate Christmas or worship Shiva and so on. Members of other Faiths who become Baha'is keep most of their past beliefs.

 

[CG Didymus]

This is where things like meditation needs to be taught in all schools but a lot of violence and wars also arise from prejudices whether religious, political, national or racial.

While religious leaders teach their people that they are superior it creates tension. Anytime people are taught their race or religion or nationality are superior that can cause prejudice and eventually violence to break out. Even in Buddhist Myanmar we have the Rohinga problem. In America violence between black and white and we already know there are problems with the ways some Muslims societies are taught to view other religions.

We bekieve only education can eventually overcome this problem so that from an early age all children are taught the equality of all humanity that all races, religions, nationalities are just one human family. That doesn't mean not appreciating diversity but what we want is for people to respect everyone for who they are and not judge them as inferior because of religious or racial differences.

I don't know what your education experience was, but it was like the "Lord of the Flies" at our school. A pecking order was established, and a getting picked on order. Learning was secondary. It was survival of fittest or who you could make alliances with. Or, how to hide in the corner and become invisible. I think it's very much like what happens to a new inmate at a prison. And this was a middle class neighborhood.

Now, kids in elementary school have guns and drugs and are joining gangs. So I really don't think it's getting better.

I think the problem is that school really isolates kids from the rest of the world. Not that the rest of the world is a great place to be either. But, they are interacting with other kids. They learn to tease, have prejudices against kids that are different. They learn what it takes to be "cool", which of course is doing all the bad things that rejects rules and discipline.

And of course discipline, kids don't seem to respect the authority of teachers and the adult world. Once they get big enough, they reject authority. Once they get old enough and get a car, they break free from all the chains society is trying to place on them. They experiment with sex, drugs and alcohol. They get in trouble with the police and learn to hate rules even more. Well, enough of my childhood. What was your experience like? And, what would be the model of education in a Baha'i world?

 

[CG Didymus]

I agree. But proselytizing can be subtle, without the proselytizer being aware of the harm its causing. Flirt to convert, helping with strings attached, friendship evangelism, and all the more subtle forms of attempting to sway others to your view are all very vague, and as to the harm it causes in others, that can easily be swept under the carpet, and denied. Many simply don't see the long term effects of a conversion on a family. How many divorces are there, for example, in interfaith marriages. Most certainly the rate is higher than in the average population.

No family needs some wild enthusiastic younger brother or sister preaching to them about their new found religion. It's painful.

As Hindus, we love all peace abiding people of all faiths. But we leave them alone religiously, unless questioned. The ONLY reason I gave you the name of my Guru was you asked me directly. The primary reason I won't go to an evangelical chursh, the local Bahai center, or a couple of particular Hinduish temples here in my city, even for interfaith, or a friendly gesture, is I know darn well I'll be stalked by the people there thinking i need to convert to their way.

These days, the internet is the main source for asking questions, many people have access, and any seeker can go out and find almost anything they want about any religion they want to without being pestered.

Knowing this though, the evangelical faiths are no seeing the 'ripe for the picking' communities as the poorest ones on the planet that have no access to the internet. A place where they don't have access to both sides of the coin.

Proselytizing is saying, "What you believe is wrong. Let me tell you the truth." Those religions that believe they have the only truth are taught that it is their spiritual duty to go "spread" the word. But even the Baha'is believe their teachings are bringing something new that needs to be shared with the world. At least they are taught to be more respectful of the beliefs of the people they are trying to teach the new truth to.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I have learned a lot, because I had to research a lot. I really do think you've caused them to do a lot of research also. That a generalized quote of "all religions are one" isn't going to fly.

But should knowing the "Truth" of recognizing a prophet/teacher of God be this difficult? There's just too many contortions of words. I looked at a Baha'i site that explained the "true" meaning of Revelation. It spoke mostly about Islam? I read one paragraph of the site about Zoroastrian prophecies. It said essentially that on the surface the prophecies don't work and even contradict. That's all I needed to know that somehow they were going to twist it, turn it, and make it fit to show that Baha'u'llah is the man.

Since the purpose of a thread like this is really to teach the Baha'i Faith, I can see why not very many people from other religions bother posting. They know the Baha'i aren't going to change their minds. And, they know the Baha'is are going to try and prove their religion is the true way.

I'm so glad you've stuck it out. Thanks for all your comments. How many posts have you done on this one thread now... like 500?

My purpose in creating the thread was to exalt all the Manifestations of God. Some of my largest posts are defending them against accusations of promoting war.

CG has asked a lot of questions about other Manifestations which pleased me greatly and I have learned a lot about Hinduism, Ahimsa, conversion and such from yourself.

I don't mind at all if no mention at all is made anymore of Baha'i because the other Manifestations are an integral part of my beliefs as well.

 

[CG Didymus]

But why shouldn't each adult have the freedom to choose his own religion? If the parents become angry and upset I think that the problem is with them not respecting freedom of thought and belief.

If a member of a family embraces truth we should rejoice not be distressed!! If a person turns away from sinfulness and ungodliness towards a life of virtue and service to humanity what is to grieve?

When my mother saw that by my becoming a Baha'i I stopped taking alcohol completely and stopped gambling she rejoiced and became a Baha'i too.

In the past, the family had been a certain religion for several generations. Now in the U.S., so many people aren't very religious. But those families that are strong in their religious beliefs do get stressed when for example their son or daughter goes off to college and returns an atheist or a member of a cult. And, to some very conservative, fundamental religions even the Baha'i Faith is believed to be a cult.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In the past, the family had been a certain religion for several generations. Now in the U.S., so many people aren't very religious. But those families that are strong in their religious beliefs do get stressed when for example their son or daughter goes off to college and returns an atheist or a member of a cult. And, to some very conservative, fundamental religions even the Baha'i Faith is believed to be a cult.

I personally don't think there's any need for real concern if the change is for the good. If the person becomes more virtuous, of more upright character, more loving to his family then it is something to celebrate.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't know what your education experience was, but it was like the "Lord of the Flies" at our school. A pecking order was established, and a getting picked on order. Learning was secondary. It was survival of fittest or who you could make alliances with. Or, how to hide in the corner and become invisible. I think it's very much like what happens to a new inmate at a prison. And this was a middle class neighborhood.

Now, kids in elementary school have guns and drugs and are joining gangs. So I really don't think it's getting better.

I think the problem is that school really isolates kids from the rest of the world. Not that the rest of the world is a great place to be either. But, they are interacting with other kids. They learn to tease, have prejudices against kids that are different. They learn what it takes to be "cool", which of course is doing all the bad things that rejects rules and discipline.

And of course discipline, kids don't seem to respect the authority of teachers and the adult world. Once they get big enough, they reject authority. Once they get old enough and get a car, they break free from all the chains society is trying to place on them. They experiment with sex, drugs and alcohol. They get in trouble with the police and learn to hate rules even more. Well, enough of my childhood. What was your experience like? And, what would be the model of education in a Baha'i world?

I dreaded school because of the bullying. But there were things I didn't agree with. I believed then that school should have taught you an art, trade or profession so upon leaving you would be self supporting for your whole life - you know the thing about teaching a person to fish? Instead it was just all words.

Schools mostly don't teach morals or virtues or spiritual life as if all we are is flesh and bones. In Baha'i schools which still are not established everywhere, we teach things like the virtues, meditation and prayer, holiness, service to the community and also arts and crafts as well as hygiene and maths, English and science. But a large emphasis is on training good character.

Bad character, no matter how knowledgeable a child may be is a problem for all society.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I know you have a plan to "spiritualize" the world economy. Could you comment on that also, because it is such a big cause of anger and hate. Poor nations have their resources and people used and abused to the point of lashing out. The rich and powerful then use force to shut down the rebellion.

But even in the U.S., the "disparity" between the rich and poor causes a lot of strife. I know this was part of the Peace Plan you guys had. Is there anything new in resolving that problem?

Yes. The emphasis is the establishment of the oneness of humanity legally so that all are recognized as equal citizens of one world and so all have equal rights to employment, water, food, education in a trade, art skill or profession and the right to medical care.

In order to establish such a global society, prejudices must be overcome, forgiveness must replace vengeance and war be abolished.

The establishment of peace and abolishment of war will free up $trillions and $trillions from the world's economies to invest in such things as free universal healthcare, free universal education to become self sufficient in a trade or profession, world employment, subsidies worldwide for farmers experiencing droughts etc and the gradual elimination of the extremes of wealth and poverty through a taxation system and profit sharing.

That is everyone will have a share in their workplace profits. So if they excel and business thrives then their share increases. Currently there is no incentive to strive for excellence or work harder but with profit sharing the business belongs to everyone so they all want it to prosper. Strikes and stoppages and sickies, would never be heard of anymore and it would lesson the extremes of wealth and poverty as all have a share not just the boss or owner.

A beautiful future and brilliant plan as it unfolds. But it will take a long time to establish as there are so few of us to build up thus awesome system.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I don't know how much longer this thread will go for. It started about eight weeks ago and there have been nearly three thousand posts. Its been educational and stimulating to consider a range of topics from different religions, history, to ethics and philosophy. The purpose for me, has been to engage in elevated discussions, about matters that concerns us all. Ironically with all the discussion about peace and harmony, we have seen an escalation of global tensions. It really highlights the need to establish true global peace and prosperity for us all. My home country New Zealand is relatively isolated from it all, yet whatever happens affects us all. We have become so interdependent. Can we really exist in our isolated corner and hope for the best. Whatever our beliefs we need to promote lasting change in the world for the better. It is an error to say the problems are too big. If we each play our part we make an enormous difference.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Of course the "lamb" is the Bab. Why would it be Jesus? I think Jesus and his religion is beginning to look like a total fabrication. No resurrection. No Satan. No hell. No Jesus coming back. Since Jesus, the alleged manifestation, didn't write the NT, then fallible men wrote it and misled people. Other fallible men interpreted it and made Jesus and the Holy Spirit part of God. And now the "lamb" in Revelation is different than the "lamb" in the gospels? Christians never mentioned this. That is deception. So I'm beginning to question just which doctrines, which Christian beliefs are really true, if any?

Well, we fully accept Christ as Lord and Saviour and the Gospels as the Word of God. We even read from the Bible weekly in our Houses of Worship all over the world. And one must accept Christ to be a Baha'i. Baha'u'llah has even written beautiful tributes to Jesus. Also the disciples are praised and we are encouraged to pray in churches as they are places of God. Abdul-Bahá even extols the symbol of the cross.

Of course Christ and the Gospels are the truth.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I wonder if it is a similar problem in New Zealand where indigenous peoples end up through the criminal justice system first before somebody actually understands what's going on. There is a lot of cultural misunderstanding that goes on, but I think we are better at recognising it these days, and having a lot more Maori working in the system. Acknowledging different paradigms and approaches depending on culture is essential too.

Wow. New Zealand. Yeah, with here they go through the criminal justice system as well. Then most people are sent to a "job rehabilitation" program where people with disabilities and quote a few actually convicted individuals are put in the same building. It is fine in general, but I known people who talk to me about crimes they still commit and people they'd like to mate with without the other party's permission to do so (the G rated version of some stories people tell me).

What I don't care for is how they help people. Some are thrown together into group homes and because some people have the leisure to go in and out as they choose, there is more illegal activity. The county/town doesn't do much about it as some people get a slap on the hand only. I have many many stories.

Sounds like your health is a major factor. I have a real sense of you trying to find your place in the world with your LGBT background. Its hard to imagine as I've been straight for the most part. I appreciate some us are just wired differently. Do you need any particular theological training to be a hospital chaplain? What's an ASL interpreter?

I like that "It's hard to imagine as I've been straight for the most part." Of course you were, unless you were an alien before you turned human. With the hospital chaplain, yes, you have to have a Bachelor's degree, medical, and some theological training and knowledge. I was in the hospital and was a practicing Catholic at the time. I asked to speak with a priest but they didn't have any nearby and usually they only come during emergencies. I spoke with a Christian chaplain (which a chaplain doesn't have a religious affiliation to their patients) and talked a bit. He had bias with the Catholic Church (of course) but asked a lot of questions about it. It was a good conversation.

An American Sign Language (ASL) interpreter is a cultural/language medium and translator between Deaf and hearing individuals. I'm pretty much an invisible go between and make sure both parties understand each other at the same level (laugh at the same time, cry at the same time) even though their languages differ profoundly.

I was thinking of interpreting at theatre but in addition to the license, I have to have another license specifically for theatre interpreting. Same as religious, law, and medical.

Living the life is the most important aspect for sure. I can see how difficult it would be for you remaining fully committed in the church for a number of reasons. Its seems helpful to be able to keep the relationship alive by remaining part of the community, but not fully. It sounds like you can do that as a Catholic.

If it weren't for the differing beliefs in christianity, I would have stayed, yes. I do talk with some of my Catholic friends from the Legion of Mary at the Church. Though, I try not to be too involved because they are very willing and see me as part of the Church regardless of my religious views. I don't like giving them the wrong impression.

I think you definitely do have something to contribute. Its learning for us all I suppose, and that's why I'm here.

Yeah. Just when ya'll get into the Israel conversation, you'll see me on the side going "hmm, uh uh, how do you pronounce that in Hindu? Oh really... Okay."

 

[Vinayaka]

But as Muslims eventually turn to the Faith this problem will disappear.

These are protocols put in place until both the Jewish and Muslim world accept the Faith of Bahaullah, which they eventually will through their own choice.

When the victory arriveth, every man shall profess himself as believer and shall hasten to the shelter of God’s Faith. -(Baha'u'llah)

This is all just wishful thinking, and follows a distinguishable pattern as several other religions feel the same way and make the same predictions. A far more realistic viewpoint, in my opinion, is to see diverse religions living side by side.

 

[Vinayaka]

I
Since the purpose of a thread like this is really to teach the Baha'i Faith, I can see why not very many people from other religions bother posting. They know the Baha'i aren't going to change their minds. And, they know the Baha'is are going to try and prove their religion is the true way.

I'm so glad you've stuck it out. Thanks for all your comments. How many posts have you done on this one thread now... like 500?

Yes, proselytizing in disguise, but I do give people credit in that they will allow opposing views to be posted. (THey could have easily stuck this in their DIR, but then you're preaching to the converted.) I've learned some too, and am still trying to get my head around why here is such strong faith in thoughts other than your own, ie, the words of a 'prophet',

I've always viewed life's interactions as a rare opportunity to study human behaviour.

 

[Vinayaka]

Proselytizing is saying, "What you believe is wrong. Let me tell you the truth." Those religions that believe they have the only truth are taught that it is their spiritual duty to go "spread" the word. But even the Baha'is believe their teachings are bringing something new that needs to be shared with the world. At least they are taught to be more respectful of the beliefs of the people they are trying to teach the new truth to.

It varies. There are the yellers the evangelical street preachers, but then there are also others who share when asked only, or will back off upon first request.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

These are protocols put in place until both the Jewish and Muslim world accept the Faith of Bahaullah, which they eventually will through their own choice.

When the victory arriveth, every man shall profess himself as believer and shall hasten to the shelter of God’s Faith. -(Baha'u'llah)

Why would you want Jews and Muslims to be Bahai? Wouldn't you rather respect religious diversity and let Jews and Muslims follow their own faith?

Does the will of Bahaullah surpass the will of Muhammad and Moses to where even though Bahaullah accepts both faiths, he also expect the followers of the latter to to conform to his (Bahallah's) way of thinking and not their own?

Christianity and Islam has this same "want people to be converted" thought pattern. How is that healthy for other religious who are happy in their faith without anger, violence, and wars?

Edit

One other question. If these revealed faiths agree with Bahai, what do they have to convert to? They all say the same thing, according to Bahallah and the same message from the same god, right? Just different outward expressions, so why the need for them to convert?

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is all just wishful thinking, and follows a distinguishable pattern as several other religions feel the same way and make the same predictions. A far more realistic viewpoint, in my opinion, is to see diverse religions living side by side.

That's great! If the religions can live side by side without wars we are very happy with that.

What matters most is peace and prosperity encompasses the world and it doesn't matter if it's not us who establishes it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why would you want Jews and Muslims to be Bahai? Wouldn't you rather respect religious diversity and let Jews and Muslims follow their own faith?

Does the will of Bahaullah surpass the will of Muhammad and Moses to where even though Bahaullah accepts both faiths, he also expect the followers of the latter to to conform to his (Bahallah's) way of thinking and not their own?

Christianity and Islam has this same "want people to be converted" thought pattern. How is that healthy for other religious who are happy in their faith without anger, violence, and wars?

Edit

One other question. If these revealed faiths agree with Bahai, what do they have to convert to? They all say the same thing, according to Bahallah and the same message from the same god, right? Just different outward expressions, so why the need for them to convert?

There is no need for anyone to convert to the Baha'i Faith. Baha'u'llah's Faith is about ending wars and conflicts, reconciliation of religions, races and nations and if they can succeed without us then we are happy with that.

Until then we offer every support and encouragement through bodies like the UN for nations, religions and races to come together in a spirit of compassion to solve their differences.

We only offer ourselves as a model of a cross section of humanity comprised of all races, religions and nationalities as proof that humanity can unite.

It doesn't matter if people become Baha'is or not. All that really matters is the happiness and well being of humanity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why would you want Jews and Muslims to be Bahai? Wouldn't you rather respect religious diversity and let Jews and Muslims follow their own faith?

Does the will of Bahaullah surpass the will of Muhammad and Moses to where even though Bahaullah accepts both faiths, he also expect the followers of the latter to to conform to his (Bahallah's) way of thinking and not their own?

Christianity and Islam has this same "want people to be converted" thought pattern. How is that healthy for other religious who are happy in their faith without anger, violence, and wars?

Edit

One other question. If these revealed faiths agree with Bahai, what do they have to convert to? They all say the same thing, according to Bahallah and the same message from the same god, right? Just different outward expressions, so why the need for them to convert?

Welcome back. We missed you. Hope you are well and in good spirits.

 

[Vinayaka]

That's great! If the religions can live side by side without wars we are very happy with that.

What matters most is peace and prosperity encompasses the world and it doesn't matter if it's not us who establishes it.

So which is it? This post, or all the ones promoting Bahai as the only way out? Have you changed your mind now?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

These are protocols put in place until both the Jewish and Muslim world accept the Faith of Bahaullah, which they eventually will through their own choice.

My question is why Jews and Muslims need to convert (accept) the Faith of Bahaullah rather than respect them for their diverse religions and let them be?