How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

This thread is misleading. Either you are for religious diversity or you're not. It's not "we bring the truth but you can keep your traditions as long as they are up-to-date and they don't cause wars." That's silly.

This is a topic of great concern to many and rightfully so. What will happen to diversity of culture, tradition and custom if we have only One Universal Cause, One Common Faith, which is the remedy Bahaullah has prescribed for this age?

There is no Bahaullah in the remedy of this age in any faith but the Bahai faith. Every other faith has their own remedy and need to be respected as such.

The Real image is very inappropriate for all religions you listed. This is your belief but the fact these religions don't coincide with each other is so black and white that I think Bahais are the only ones who don't see it. Even Christians see it regardless of how much they want people to come to christ.

If everyone were to become a Bahá'í, would it mean there be no more church services, no more Buddhist chants, or puja offered to Shiva? Would there be no more Christmas, Divali or Passover?

Exactly. Remember, you said these were outside expressions. You also said that outward and inward are separated. You even went so far as to say why do you need permission from other faiths to have them a part of yours when god is above all and their opinions don't count (my wording since it will take me forever to find the post).

Which is it? Do you want religions to have their own faith-including Buddhism which has no god-or do you wan to redefine these religions so their god matches the god of Bahai?

Also, remember, the god of Bahai is not the god of Hinduism.

With the acceptance of Baha'u'llah it does not mean the abandonment of the basic foundation of ones previous Faith but a new and much deeper appreciation of its truths and added to that laws which are relevant for this day and age. It would mean for most, the fulfillment of the prophecies of their own Faith.

Either you want to abandon previous traditions for those laws relevant for this day and age or you want other religions to keep their traditions because to them, they are relevant for this day and age-the past, present, and future.

Also, if a Christian, Hindu, and Muslim are telling you Bahaullah has no place in their faith in regards to interpretation of prophecies of it other than Christ or Muhammad (and Hindu, again, is completely off the grid), why won't you listen to them and take their objects as truth of their religion not go off the interpretations of yours? They are giving you facts. You are giving us interpretation of their facts. Why not believe the believers not the people who interpret for them?

Whereas in past ages we used oil lamps and candles, electricity is not seen as an affront or insult to previous uses of light but a greater endowment of it. One can still use candles and oil lamps but who cannot see the overwhelming advantage of electric light?

Yes, my great aunt sara used to use oil lamps and candles. She felt she wanted to live closer to jesus day. There wasn't any cell phones and internet back then. What is wrong with that? She lived to a good age, in a healthy faith, with a huge family. She and many religions and religious like to keep their old traditions and pass them on.

"but who cannot see the overwhelming advantage of electric light" again, respect people for their differences and their truths. It is not wrong. It may be foreign to but to change that as if that will unite people will only bring wars instead.

So too with the Baha'i Revelation. It's not in competition with the past religions a massive improvement upon them which we believe all people will embrace as seamlessly as they moved from the candle to electric lighting.

It is for all the reasons I said above. Many people want to keep the candle because it's been like that for them for ages and it will not cease. You can believe in a modern religion but to unite others who do not see the way you do under a foundation they don't believe in is just, wrong.

The Baha'i Teachings are an advantage to those suffering racial discrimination, an advantage to women who have been treated unequally for thousands of years, as a uniting factor replacing nationalism with a global village where people are no longer valued or devalued by their religion, race, culture or nationality but all receive equal rights. Extremes of wealth and poverty will be eliminated as will war be abolished.

Bahai teachings are one of many advantages to end suffering. Each religion has their view. Bahai are no different.

The religions of the past, what becomes of them if we have only one Faith?

Rhetorical question? We don't need one faith. Diversity is a blessing not a curse.

I don't think you understand what diversity means if you want them to be under one faith.

They all become part of that one Faith and are not destroyed or left behind because Baha'u'llah is the One prophesied in most of their Holy Books so they would see Him and His religion, as we all have, as an integral part of their religion's fulfillment. This is who we Baha'is are. People who discovered that the Promised One of our religion has appeared.

When they become one faith, their cultures and traditions are destroyed because you have place Bahaullah and god as the foundation where in your revealed religions, the god of Bahaullah and Bahallauh himself has no role as a person nor as a promised one. The sooner you understand this the better.

The Bahá'í Faith will never interfere with people who want to celebrate Christmas or worship Shiva and so on. Members of other Faiths who become Baha'is keep most of their past beliefs.

Bahai Christians, Bahai Hindu, Bahai Muslims, etc have different foundations than Christians, Hindu, and Muslims. The former has Bahaullah as their foundation as the last prophet for this age. The latter three religions do not.

Bahai Christian is not the same as a Christian.

A Bahai Christian would believe Bahaullah is the promised one found in the bible with whom, like christ, has the spirit of god (however you phrased in posts back when I asked was Bahaullah like christ's relationship with god in mainstream christianity), and is a universalist.

Christianity believes in only one god and only one savior/promised one. They do not believe the divinity of other religious prophets have the same divinity as that of christ (whether or not he is god is besides the point). They won't recognize Bahaullah as any manifestation of god. That's insulting Christians and the Jews.

The sooner you understand this the better.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

My question is why Jews and Muslims need to convert (accept) the Faith of Bahaullah rather than respect them for their diverse religions and let them be?

Hi,

We do not believe that people will be forced to accept Bahai Faith. Based on our scriptures, it is prophesied there will come a time, people will choose to accept Bahaullah, as the Manifestation of God. Bahais believe that Bahaullah, has brought a set of teachings, which are specific to the requirements of this Age. As you might already know, all major religions, have such Prophecies, that a new human cycle will come. Many religions call that, Day of Resurrection. Some may call it, Day of Judgement, or End of World. We believe, this time has come to pass. An older Cycle is passed, and we now just began to live in a New Human cycle. This is the cycle in which, World peace will be established.
Our Scriptures seem to prophesy that, first, the world will be going toward Irreligious. It is a period, that the old system of beliefs will be abolished. Then somethings will happen in the world, of great magnitude, which makes people to feel they will need Religion. At that time, people will choose Bahai Faith, because they will realize, it is a Faith with teachings which are suited to the requirements of this Age. But, we are not there yet....

 

[Unveiled Artist]

One doesn't need to be forced to accept the Bahai faith. I asked just by saying "when they accept" is predicting that Muslims and Jews will some day come to the Bahai faith; that is not respecting their truth and diversity.

Hi,

We do not believe that people will be forced to accept Bahai Faith. Based on our scriptures, it is prophesied there will come a time, people will choose to accept Bahaullah, as the Manifestation of God. Bahais believe that Bahaullah, has brought a set of teachings, which are specific to the requirements of this Age. As you might already know, all major religions, have such Prophecies, that a new human cycle will come. Many religions call that, Day of Resurrection. Some may call it, Day of Judgement, or End of World. We believe, this time has come to pass. An older Cycle is passed, and we now just began to live in a New Human cycle. This is the cycle that World peace will be established.

These religious "new cycles" are unique to the religions themselves. They don't overlap to build a new world peace.

World peace, to me, is unity among diversity. This means no Christ, Bahaullah, Muhammad, and no other figure and god as the foundation of this peace.

In other words, World Peace has no one foundation.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

One doesn't need to be forced to accept the Bahai faith. I asked just by saying "when they accept" is predicting that Muslims and Jews will some day come to the Bahai faith; that is not respecting their truth and diversity.



These religious "new cycles" are unique to the religions themselves. They don't overlap to build a new world peace.

World peace, to me, is unity among diversity. This means no Christ, Bahaullah, Muhammad, and no other figure and god as the foundation of this peace.

In other words, World Peace has no one foundation.

Well, Bahais believe, all major Religions were inspired from the same source. In another word. They all have the same divine origin. Thus, all prophesied of the same Day. There is evidence too for this, if one likes to research it. For instance All major Religions specified the Relative Year, that this Prophecy to be fulfilled. All of them match, with our Time.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, Bahais believe, all major Religions were inspired from the same source. In another word. They all have the same divine origin. Thus, all prophesied of the same Day. There is evidence too for this, if one likes to research it. For instance All major Religions specified the Relative Year, that this Prophecy to be fulfilled. All of them match, with our Time.

That's a belief. It's alright to have it. The fact that Buddhism has no god, Hindu god is not the same as abrahamic, and christianity believes only christ as god's divinity not Moses, not Muhammad, and not Bahaullah puts a dead halt of any details such as prophecies these religions, to Bahai, may have in common.

I was reading @Vinayaka and @loverofhumanity conversation and pretty much as the same thing that it's like Bahai are picking at different details of the beliefs and finding similarities among the goals which they mistake for the foundations (my wording).

The very fact all these revealed religions themselves say that no other religion is like theirs (the abrahamic religions) is a huge difference (and somewhat more of a respectful stance) than saying we are all one and all the revealed religions come from the same source.

I respect people for expressing their differences than making me part of what they find in common with a selective group of people as if by making me a part of their group, makes me agree with their goals. Not everyone is like that.

The better Bahai understand this, the better.

 

[paarsurrey]

[QUOTE="InvestigateTruth, post: 5159891, member: 25204"]If Hadithes are compatable with Quran, and have an evidence from Quran, they should be accepted:




These are recorded in the book al-Kafi:

Imam Sadiq said: "If they narrated to you a Hadith and you find a witness for it in the Book of God or in Hadith of the holy Prophet (it is acceptable), otherwise, it is better for the one who brought it to you. (Meaning you'd better attribute it to the narrator and do not accept that the hadith is from us)."


"Abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) has said, ‘Everything must be referred to the holy Quran and the Sunnah, the noble traditions of the holy Prophet (s.a.) and any Hadith that does not agree with the holy Quran it is a useless statement.’"

abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) has said the following:
"The holy Prophet once addressed the people in Mina (a place in Makkah) saying, "O people, whatever comes to you in the form of my Hadith you must see if it agrees with the holy book of Allah then know that I have said it but whatever comes to you that does not agree with the book of Allah then know that I have not said it."

"The holy Prophet (s.a.) said: "Over every truth there is a reality and above every valid issue there is light. Whatever agrees with the holy Quran you must follow it and whatever does not agree disregard it."



These Hadithes tell us that For every Hadith of Imams, one must bring an evidence either from Hadith of Prophet or from Quran, to prove that the Hadith is authentic. And, for every Hadith of Prophet, you should have an evidence that it is compatible with Quran.

In my view, Those Hadithes regarding Well-grounded in knowledge Ones, are compatible with Quran, and has an evidence from Quran, as shown in verses 7:3 and 29:49. The verses are actually quoted in my previous post (at least the parts that are related).[/QUOTE]
"If Hadithes are compatable with Quran".......

Please as requested quote a verse of Quran with the verses in the context and then prove that a Hadith one wants to present is compatible with the verse of Quran and the context of the verses.
Regards

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My point: World peace has no one foundation

 

[Vinayaka]

Well, Bahais believe, all major Religions were inspired from the same source. In another word.

And most non Bahais don't believe that.

A person believes he is God incarnate. All other people believe he isn't.

So it's just belief. there are no hard cold facts for any of it.

 

[Vinayaka]

My point: World peace has no one foundation

If there was anything close, it would have to be mutual respect, not any of the 'my way' versions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So which is it? This post, or all the ones promoting Bahai as the only way out? Have you changed your mind now?

I have always said that political unification of humanity will be established without the direct involvement of the Baha'i Community but that after many centuries Baha'is will establish the Most Great Peace which is the unity of all religions.

We fully support world unity, the political unification of humanity but our goal is more than just an end to war.

No other religion has a goal of uniting all religions so if it happens it will be as a result of the Baha'is working for it. We are working for the Most Great Peace, the unity of religion. That is our main goal.

None of the religions will be lost. They will simply unite.

 

[loverofhumanity]

My question is why Jews and Muslims need to convert (accept) the Faith of Bahaullah rather than respect them for their diverse religions and let them be?

On good reason is for peace. They do not enjoy peace now but Jewish Baha'is and Muslim Baha'is are close as family.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

On good reason is for peace. They do not enjoy peace now but Jewish Baha'is and Muslim Baha'is are close as family.

They do not enjoy peace now. Who is they?

Edit

I went to Mass today to honor and remember my grandmother with whom I'm going to visit her resting place sometime after classes end. While at Mass, it dawned on me that everyone around the whole world going to Mass is experiencing the life, death, and resurrection of christ all in one 45 minute sitting. It was beautiful and the feeling uplifting. Catholics are one big family.

Hinduis are one big family, so are Buddhist, and so are Muslims. Bahai isn't unique in this regard.

 

[Vinayaka]

No other religion has a goal of uniting all religions so if it happens it will be as a result of the Baha'is working for it. We are working for the Most Great Peace, the unity of religion. That is our main goal.

Again, you're saying two things at once. Lots of other religions besides Bahai are working on world peace. You seem to think Bahais are the only ones who want peace, which simply isn't true. Where we really differ, once again, is in this idea of unity. You propose that Bahai will take a leadership role, with Baha'u'llah as the central figure (once everyone else finally comes to their senses) whereas other faiths just see themselves as one of a committee of faiths all working towards a common goal. Who will lead is irrelevant. The last person I'd personally want in any leadership role would be one who kept harping away about a certain prophet.

 

[Vinayaka]

On good reason is for peace. They do not enjoy peace now but Jewish Baha'is and Muslim Baha'is are close as family.

Surely we can have respect for each other without Bahai. It's like saying you can't be a member of a peace movement unless you carry a Bahai flag. That's just a soft version of exclusivity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This thread is misleading. Either you are for religious diversity or you're not. It's not "we bring the truth but you can keep your traditions as long as they are up-to-date and they don't cause wars." That's silly.


There is no Bahaullah in the remedy of this age in any faith but the Bahai faith. Every other faith has their own remedy and need to be respected as such.

The Real image is very inappropriate for all religions you listed. This is your belief but the fact these religions don't coincide with each other is so black and white that I think Bahais are the only ones who don't see it. Even Christians see it regardless of how much they want people to come to christ.



Exactly. Remember, you said these were outside expressions. You also said that outward and inward are separated. You even went so far as to say why do you need permission from other faiths to have them a part of yours when god is above all and their opinions don't count (my wording since it will take me forever to find the post).

Which is it? Do you want religions to have their own faith-including Buddhism which has no god-or do you wan to redefine these religions so their god matches the god of Bahai?

Also, remember, the god of Bahai is not the god of Hinduism.



Either you want to abandon previous traditions for those laws relevant for this day and age or you want other religions to keep their traditions because to them, they are relevant for this day and age-the past, present, and future.

Also, if a Christian, Hindu, and Muslim are telling you Bahaullah has no place in their faith in regards to interpretation of prophecies of it other than Christ or Muhammad (and Hindu, again, is completely off the grid), why won't you listen to them and take their objects as truth of their religion not go off the interpretations of yours? They are giving you facts. You are giving us interpretation of their facts. Why not believe the believers not the people who interpret for them?



Yes, my great aunt sara used to use oil lamps and candles. She felt she wanted to live closer to jesus day. There wasn't any cell phones and internet back then. What is wrong with that? She lived to a good age, in a healthy faith, with a huge family. She and many religions and religious like to keep their old traditions and pass them on.

"but who cannot see the overwhelming advantage of electric light" again, respect people for their differences and their truths. It is not wrong. It may be foreign to but to change that as if that will unite people will only bring wars instead.



It is for all the reasons I said above. Many people want to keep the candle because it's been like that for them for ages and it will not cease. You can believe in a modern religion but to unite others who do not see the way you do under a foundation they don't believe in is just, wrong.



Bahai teachings are one of many advantages to end suffering. Each religion has their view. Bahai are no different.

​

Rhetorical question? We don't need one faith. Diversity is a blessing not a curse.

I don't think you understand what diversity means if you want them to be under one faith.



When they become one faith, their cultures and traditions are destroyed because you have place Bahaullah and god as the foundation where in your revealed religions, the god of Bahaullah and Bahallauh himself has no role as a person nor as a promised one. The sooner you understand this the better.



Bahai Christians, Bahai Hindu, Bahai Muslims, etc have different foundations than Christians, Hindu, and Muslims. The former has Bahaullah as their foundation as the last prophet for this age. The latter three religions do not.

Bahai Christian is not the same as a Christian.

A Bahai Christian would believe Bahaullah is the promised one found in the bible with whom, like christ, has the spirit of god (however you phrased in posts back when I asked was Bahaullah like christ's relationship with god in mainstream christianity), and is a universalist.

Christianity believes in only one god and only one savior/promised one. They do not believe the divinity of other religious prophets have the same divinity as that of christ (whether or not he is god is besides the point). They won't recognize Bahaullah as any manifestation of god. That's insulting Christians and the Jews.

The sooner you understand this the better.

People will never be compelled to give up their traditions. The Baha'i Faith only offers not imposes. If people are happy with what they have then we are happy for them.

All we want is peace and prosperity for all humanity and that's not the case now. People will freely choose to have one Faith after being tired of division and discord.

The reason the Baha'i Community is united is because, despite our diversity we all have one thing in common - Baha'u'llah was the One Promised in our Holy Books.

We have numerous religions today from thousands of years ago - where is world peace then?

Questions need to be asked why, with billions of 'religious' people on earth we can't find peace. Could it be they have had their time and no longer are able to address the problems of this age?

The illness today is disunity so the medicine must be unity. How can the disjointed, disunited religions of the world, themselves split into thousands of sects unable to find unity amongst their own kind bring unity to our world?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

None of the religions will be lost. They will simply unite.

Take Bahaullah and the others out (and Moses and Christ) then you are closer to world peace.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Surely we can have respect for each other without Bahai. It's like saying you can't be a member of a peace movement unless you carry a Bahai flag. That's just a soft version of exclusivity.

Any well meaning person can find peace with any other person. The only point I was making was that regardless of the conflicting creeds, races and nationalities within our ranks we are at peace.

But we are a world community not just a few well meaning people.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Take Bahaullah and the others out (and Moses and Christ) then you are closer to world peace.

Carlita. I love your audacity! So have no Prophets? Take out God too?

Describe for me what the Baha'i Faith should be like. I'd like to know what your idea would be of a 'good' Bahá'í Faith?

 

[Vinayaka]

People will never be compelled to give up their traditions. The Baha'i Faith only offers not imposes. If people are happy with what they have then we are happy for them.

All we want is peace and prosperity for all humanity and that's not the case now. People will freely choose to have one Faith after being tired of division and discord.

Direct contradiction. 1) People will never be compelled to give up their traditions. and
2) People will freely choose to have ONE faith.

This is totally contradictory. If people all choose to have one faith, by definition, some of them ARE giving up their traditions.

(I assume that one faith you are referring to is Bahai)

 

[loverofhumanity]

Again, you're saying two things at once. Lots of other religions besides Bahai are working on world peace. You seem to think Bahais are the only ones who want peace, which simply isn't true. Where we really differ, once again, is in this idea of unity. You propose that Bahai will take a leadership role, with Baha'u'llah as the central figure (once everyone else finally comes to their senses) whereas other faiths just see themselves as one of a committee of faiths all working towards a common goal. Who will lead is irrelevant. The last person I'd personally want in any leadership role would be one who kept harping away about a certain prophet.

I'm not talking about world peace. That's one thing that anyone can establish.

I'm talking about the unity of religion. Is there any other organization or religion which wants all religions to unite? I don't know of any one but the Baha'is but I may be wrong.

It follows that if we are the only ones with that goal then no one else is working towards it so if it eventually succeeds it will be a work done by Baha'is because no one else is trying to unite the religions but the Baha'is unless you know if someone else.

Unity of religion means all the religions joining together and becoming one religion. Not a committee but one Faith.