How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

The major Faiths.

Bahai is not a major faith. There are many sub-sects in the 3 largest religions that are larger by far (by adherents) than Bahai. This is just another 'delusion of grandeur' propaganda.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm happy for you. Our 42nd anniversary is coming in about 2 weeks. She has been a very patient woman.

Obviously not everyone gets divorced. I was just looking at Pew research's stats on divorce in faith communities, and they had Bahai above the national average, that's all. Means nothing on individual levels. But it also does say something about all this 'peace' the Bahais here go on about too.

We must both have good karma. Lol

 

[loverofhumanity]

Bahai is not a major faith. There are many sub-sects in the 3 largest religions that are larger by far (by adherents) than Bahai. This is just another 'delusion of grandeur' propaganda.

Yes they all have many sects so there isn't one of them that is really major in one piece.

 

[Vinayaka]

We must both have good karma. Lol

I figure Boss has bad karma, married to me.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes they all have many sects so there isn't one of them that is really major in one piece.

Interestingly, most of the larger groups like Isha Foundation, The Art of Living, Sai Organisations, all take great pains to declare themselves non-Hindu, and new religious movements unto themselves, usually with the universalist tag attached. Each with leaders too, called avatars, teacher of mankind, etc. The only major difference between them and Bahai is that the founders were born Hindu, and Baha'u'llah was born Muslim. Lots in common. Personally I term them mass-marker Gurus because of the promotion and marketing they do. There are several more as well.

 

[CG Didymus]

That's great! If the religions can live side by side without wars we are very happy with that.

What matters most is peace and prosperity encompasses the world and it doesn't matter if it's not us who establishes it.

The blind men describing an elephant almost works here. If all the religions could see they were only describing part of the elephant and could then see the whole elephant, then it would work. But then we are not talking about blind men. We are talking about manifestations who know the truth of who and what God is.

Can a born-again Christian live side by side with anyone and not tell them their beliefs? They think you are deceived by Satan, are dead in your sins and need Jesus to be saved. Their God has a plan to convince everyone that he is God... Calamity.

But doesn't your religion predict a great upheaval also?

 

[CG Didymus]

None of the religions will be lost. They will simply unite.

They've already been lost or marginalized. Right now, what do you think of Jainism, Sikhism, and I asked what you thought of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.... True or not true?

At some point some beliefs are wrong. Their founder thought he/she was divine or a prophet, but didn't get much of a following, and are now forgotten. In a Baha'i World, who would need the religions of the past? Which sect of those religions will they study? The universal eternal spiritual laws? They can get those reading Baha'i books.

Right now, how much does an average Christian church-goer study the Talmud? Probably close to zero. How much to they study the OT? Very few. How much do they even get down and study their own book the NT? Probably still, not too much. The average church-goer probably only cracks open the Bible on Sunday at Church.

And why would that be? You've been telling us the reason from the beginning... It is irrelevant to today's world... Unless, you are a member of an Evangelical Church that promotes daily Bible study. And, believes we are living in the end times. They care a lot about what's going on and can show you how everything that is happening fits into all the predictions in the Bible. But one prediction they don't see... that Jesus has already returned. They look at the world and say, "No way, this isn't even close to the calamities prophesied. And it's not until after those happen that Jesus comes back."

 

[CG Didymus]

Way over 90% of this planet lives at peace with each other. Not exactly a few well meaning people. Please look at the world map to see all the places where there are NO wars.

Even in Bahai itself there is a lot of conflict. Unlike you (most likely prohibited) I can read the many internet sites on how and why people left Bahai. There are claims that the divorce rate is higher than in the general populace, etc. There is conflict, whether you want to turn a blind eye to it or not is up to you.

I asked about some of those people from a couple of those sites. I new one of them. He published a magazine called "Dialogue". A Baha'i wrote an article about some changes needed to better promote the Baha'i Faith. They got shut down, and essentially forced out of the Faith.

So sure, there's unity. If you don't cause trouble. To be fair, same thing happened with Christianity. The ones in control in Rome forced out all heretical views.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Word compelled means they won't ever be compelled. They will CHOOSE to be Baha'is and choose to give up traditions they don't want. It's all voluntary.

People will never be compelled. It will always be their own choice to choose Bahá'í or not to choose it. I can still celebrate New Year and hristmas with my family. No big deal at all.

About a million posts ago I asked about some beliefs and traditions that are totally and completely wrong. My example was probably about a religion that sacrificed people to the god. So if an Aztec wanted to take, I assume a virgin, up the pyramid to the altar and cut out her heart, you'd be okay with that? No, I don't think so.

You and Adrian have native people in your area. I suppose some have become Baha'is. I can see them wearing native dress and doing some dances and you thinking how wonderful that is. But what about me, my Dad was from Mexico and I want to see some traditional Aztec religious ceremonies acted out. To do just the dances with the costumes? That's not the reality of what the religion was about. So no, some traditions were wrong, are wrong, and even you won't allow them to happen.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That's because many other religions don't want to unify. Humanity is much grander with diversity. You're taking milk, beer, fruit juice, coconut juice, lime juice, whiskey, mango juice, and mixing it into one unified super juice. That stuff would taste horrible.

Hello,

Factually speaking, those who have become Bahais and believed in Bahaullah, are from diverse backgrounds. I don't say this to exaggerate, but it is a verifiable fact. So, among those who accepted Bahaullah, are virtually from all Religious backgrounds, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians and others. Also, from different races and nationalities, white, black, yellow,...American, African, Asian, European, and etc.
What I intend by this, is, In our view, a Faith has appeared that has shown capability of Uniting different people. Consider for example, the animosity between Many Muslims and Jews (which is unfortunate), once they became Bahai, there is no animosity anymore. Consider, Christians believe Muhammad is a false Prophet. But once many Christians became Bahai, they also believed Muhammad was a Messenger of God. So, in my view, this Faith successfully has shown it can unite all people, and convince them of its truth, however mankind has been busy with worldly things, and have not been able to investigate it yet. Also, the Bahai people are not necessarily perfectly following all Bahai teachings, but this by no mean, is a failure of Truth of Religion, but it shows that, we always need to strive to follow as much as we can the good teachings of Bahaullah. What I want to say, to be fair, the Bahai Faith should not be judged based on how many people have joined it, or how perfect Bahais follow it, but should be judged only based on the teachings of Bahaullah, and those evidence that demonstrate the Truth of it.

 

[Vinayaka]

So sure, there's unity. If you don't cause trouble. To be fair, same thing happened with Christianity. The ones in control in Rome forced out all heretical views.

Yes that's my take as well. It's called maintaining the positive messaging and denying anything negative. But hey that's what a lot of folks do. There really isn't much point in airing dirty laundry. In reality, I think a person has to experience a faith with an open mind for a very long time in order to truly decide. The problem with that of course, is using will to keep the mind open when there is a constant bombardment of propaganda. If you hear nothing else, after awhile you start thinking its true, and even moreso if you're not exactly a deep thinker to start with.

 

[Vinayaka]

Hello,

Factually speaking, those who has become Bahais and believed in Bahaullah, are from diverse backgrounds. I don't say this to exagerate, but it is a verifiable fact. So, among those who accepted Bahaullah, are virtually from all Religious backgrounds, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians and others. Also, from different races and nationalities, white, black, yellow,...American, African, Asian, European, and etc.
What I intend by this, is, In our view, a Faith has appeared that has shown capability of Uniting different people. Consider for example, the enemosity between Many Muslims and Jews (which is unfirtunate), once they became Bahai, there is no enemisity anymore. Consider, Christians believe Muhammad is a false Prophet. But once many Christians became Bahai, they also believed Muhammad was a Messenger of God. So, in my view, this Faith successfuly has shown it can unite all people, and convince them, however mankind has been busy with worldy things, and have not been able to investigate it yet. Also, the Bahai people are not neccessarily perfectly following all Bahai teachings, but this by no mean, is a failure of Religion, but it shows that, we always need to strive to follow as much as we can the good teachings of Bahaullah. What I want to say, the Bahai Faith should not be judged how many people has joined it, or how perfect Bahais follow it, but should be judged only based on the teachings of Bahaullah, and those evidence that demonstrate the Truth of it.

Knowing that Pioneers have gone to all corners of the world, it is little wonder there has been diversity amongst the converts. All evangelical missionary groups have diversity, stronger in some places that others yes.

I'm not saying Bahai faith is wrong, or evil, I'm just saying there is an obvious tendency to exaggerate. Many other groups within all the great religions have a unity in diversity, and have made wondrous achievemnts towards world peace. Not many are on here letting us all know how great those achievments were.

Of course in Hinduism , although that is a consequence, it's not the main goal, The main goal is moksha, a much deeper inner goal. Whether or not this planet comes to a world peace, or even if that is God's plan is up for debate. Sure, it might be nice, but how would we learn anything, or evolve at all, it there wasn't some suffering to be found, or challenges to overcome.

 

[siti]

should be judged only based on the teachings of Bahaullah, and those evidence that demonstrate the Truth of it.

And, presumably, ignoring the evidence that demonstrates otherwise - like the fact that it (perhaps deliberately) misrepresents the religious traditions it claims to be descended from.

But I am also still waiting for a Baha'i explanation as to why Confucius, Lao Tzu and Guru Nanak (for example) are not "Manifestations". The topic, after all, is about what made the "Manifestations" that are accepted "great" - so it might be useful, in terms of answering the OP question, to identify what disqualifies these non-Manifestations.

 

[CG Didymus]

That's because many other religions don't want to unify. Humanity is much grander with diversity. You're taking milk, beer, fruit juice, coconut juice, lime juice, whiskey, mango juice, and mixing it into one unified super juice. That stuff would taste horrible.

I'm still believing that a culture had traditions and beliefs. That's what made them who they are. In today's world things are so different. The great unifier is secularism. People can be from all kinds of backgrounds, but they left their cultural traditions behind and can work together. Except, without some spiritual connection, life is kind of meaningless.

So in that void, those people have found, or even some of them have made, some spiritual paths. Many have taken the best of several religious ideas and truths and made a religion out of it. Some people have rediscovered their old religion or found a new one, like the Baha'i Faith. I really don't think anyone that joins the Baha'i Faith was all that keen on believing their old religion. So for them the Baha'i Faith is a nice refreshing drink of water after a long day's journey through the desert.

But not every one is that lost or that desperate to find a new religion. They're looking at the Baha'i Faith and thinking, "Hmmm, that drink isn't Koolaid is it?"

 

[CG Didymus]

...and yes, no god. Why? Because there are many "gods". You have Vishnu, Orin, Gaia, Zues, and trying to think of others..but you have many gods. So, I can't limit "truth" if you like to one source. Not possible.

For example, being part of the LGBTQ community is who I am both religious and otherwise. So, if you are saying that having equal rights for us is a lesser world peace, then that's literally saying because it's political and yo don't see the religious side of it, it's not as important as spirituality when everything we do is a part of our spirituality. We can't separate it. What we do reflects who we are as people.

For me, I think the people and culture made their myths and tradition and formulated a religion. They made their gods. If there was one God as the source of all religions, then there should be way more consistency in beliefs.

On the LGBTQ community, what are you and your friends thoughts on even a progressive religion like the Baha'i Faith... forbidding homosexual behavior? It's nice to see that none of the Baha'is here have said anything negative, but there religion does.

 

[Vinayaka]

So in that void, those people have found, or even some of them have made, some spiritual paths. Many have taken the best of several religious ideas and truths and made a religion out of it. Some people have rediscovered their old religion or found a new one, like the Baha'i Faith.

For the record, I think Bahai is a step up from some of those faiths, and a step down from others. So much of it is individual.

 

[Vinayaka]

And, presumably, ignoring the evidence that demonstrates otherwise - like the fact that it (perhaps deliberately) misrepresents the religious traditions it claims to be descended from.

But I am also still waiting for a Baha'i explanation as to why Confucius, Lao Tzu and Guru Nanak (for example) are not "Manifestations". The topic, after all, is about what made the "Manifestations" that are accepted "great" - so it might be useful, in terms of answering the OP question, to identify what disqualifies these non-Manifestations.

The answer that I heard several thousand posts back was simply what the founder said:

"These guys are manifestations, and these guys aren't."

So you just listen to the infallible one, and leave it at that. Of course I think your question is totally legitimate, and somewhere buried in all these posts was my Hindu school's explanation, which wouldn't (at least in my opinion) be quite so contradictory or illogical.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

For me, I think the people and culture made their myths and tradition and formulated a religion. They made their gods. If there was one God as the source of all religions, then there should be way more consistency in beliefs.

On the LGBTQ community, what are you and your friends thoughts on even a progressive religion like the Baha'i Faith... forbidding homosexual behavior? It's nice to see that none of the Baha'is here have said anything negative, but there religion does.

LGBTQ has nothing to do with homosexual behavior. @loverofhumanity mentioned there was a lesser peace (political peace that will come sometime later) and greater peace brought by Bahaullah.

One can't separate peace. What we do is a reflection of who we are. Who I am as an LGBTQ person is not what I do, it's who I am. So, I gave that example as loverofhumanity putting LGBTQ and other political rights in the lesser peace area when there is no lesser or greater, there is just peace.

To establish that, there is no one religious foundation Bahaullah, god, or otherwise. I can't see any logic by saying: "We respect diversity and to have greater peace, god must be the foundation and Bahaullah the promised prophet." It's literally saying "let's have diversity under my roof."

There is a lot of irony in what some Bahai are saying. I don't know if they see it though.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

And, presumably, ignoring the evidence that demonstrates otherwise - like the fact that it (perhaps deliberately) misrepresents the religious traditions it claims to be descended from.

In my view Bahai Scriptures does not misrepresent the traditions of other religions, but rather renews the Truth that was misinterpreted and divided by humankind over thousands of years.

In Bahai View each of the Founders of great Religions Revealed the Truth for the People of Their Time. Let's for example talk about Buddhism. In my understanding, when Buddha appeared He revealed the Truth, and what is intended by Truth, in this context is a collection of statements, and teachings that came from the Mouth of Buddha. However, it was a different Time, so, He perhaps did not write His statements or teachings in a Book or Books, that collectively is the Truth. Instead these Information was Orally taught by Buddha to His followers. Had these followers been One and united, collectively had all the teachings of Buddha together, but Later on, these followers became divided, and thus each group had only a Portion of those teachings, or sayings of Buddha. So, overtime, because not all groups had all the teachings, they must have had lack of knowledge to completely understand Original Buddhism. Therefore each group added their own ideas and interpretations to their own portion of teachings of Buddha over thousands of years, and that is why we see, there are so many sects in Buddhism. So, which sect represents perfectly the teachings of Buddha?. In this sense, in my view, all of them have some portions of the words and Ideas of Buddha, plus many other things that were added later.
What I said about Buddha, is a classical way how sects of other Religions were created as well. This is somewhat similar to sects of Islam. Each sect has a portion of Recorded Traditions and a different interpretation of Quran.

So, now, in our view, what Bahaullah Taught includes that original elements of teachings of Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, Muhammad and other Manifestations, but because the Truth had always been divided into so many sects of Religions, it appears that, Bahai Faith has some of the teachings of each sects of religions. But, according to History, Bahaullah did not have any education in Religions. He did not have the Books of various Religions or sects to go and pick some from each. All those who witnessed Bahaullah have said that Bahaullah wrote His Books all directly from His mind. In fact in some case Bahaullah and the Bab, wrote a whole Book of about 200 pages or more in front of witnesses, within the space of a couple of days, and these Books are available. Bahaullah has written over 17000 works, and no body could fund or prove any errors in them, despite the fact that, many of the enemies of Bahai Faith, has gone through all these Writings, trying to prove there are mistakes in them to disprove infallibility of Bahaullah. Bahaullah, in order to teach people of His time, He had to frequently quote from Scriptures, histories and Traditions of Religions of the past, because the people of His time had such backgrounds, and these informations are scattered in literally thousands of pages. But Bahaullah did not study these, nore He had those books to read and quote from them. Instead, He just knew it all from His mind, without error. Just imagine, a person knows all verses of Quran, Bible, History of Religions and Hadithes or Recorded Traditions, without any trace of learning them. Now, because Bahaullah, lived about 150 years ago, there is a lot of history about Him. It is not like the case of Muhammad or Jesus, who lived long ago, with very little known about them. In case of Bahaullah, many historical events are verifiable.

On the other hand, Bahai Faith, does not try to validate or prove its truth by comparing the Religious Traditions of the Past, by its own Scriptures and demonstrating that they are the same. The proof of Bahai Faith is wholly based on capabilities of Bahaullah as a supper human, which is demonstrated throughout thousands of pages of history and Scriptures of Bahai Faith, which can only be known by investigating these writings gradually and Patiently.

But I am also still waiting for a Baha'i explanation as to why Confucius, Lao Tzu and Guru Nanak (for example) are not "Manifestations". The topic, after all, is about what made the "Manifestations" that are accepted "great" - so it might be useful, in terms of answering the OP question, to identify what disqualifies these non-Manifestations.

See, if Bahais were trying to just get everyone into their Religion, by simply saying all of them are from same God, they would have perhaps included more people as Manifestations. But Manifestations, in our view, are Those who have innate knowledge. They know all things without studying. They promised of future Manifestations, and they were Promised by previous Manifestations.

 

[siti]

He did not have the Books of various Religions or sects to go and pick some from each.

Indeed - and perhaps this is why Baha'i "Manifestations" are limited to the founders of religions that had a significant (religious, military or commercial) influence in Persia. Islam (obviously) takes center stage - and it invokes the broader Abrahamic tradition and brings in Judaism and Christianity (also important minority religions in 19th century Persia). Zoroaster was obviously a key figure in Persian history as was the religion named after him. Buddhism had a long connection to Persia, possibly from the time of Buddha himself and certainly during the Mongol conquests and Hinduism may have been practiced from early times - it is even suggested that the word "Hindu" is of Persian origin and certainly classical Indian texts were available in Persia. So Baha'u'llah - being of noble status and receiving a princely education - would almost certainly have had access to books about all these religions - and probably much less so to information about the other religions that I mentioned.