How are these Great Beings explained?

[CG Didymus]

We'll get it right one day. If not now for sure after a nuclear war!

Doesn't the Baha'i Faith say there will be a great turmoil like an apocalypse or something?

 

[CG Didymus]

Thank you,

These quotes that you have referred to, clearly claims that Bahaullah had knowledge of the details of Religions of the Past, and specially the ones that were important for the people of His time. However these quotes does not say, 'where', 'when', and 'how' He learned them.
What I am saying, is let's find out if there are any Historical evidence that Bahaullah learned them through studying from others, or having books, or teachers. Actually Bahais did not make up the believe that, Bahaullah had a divinely inspired knowledge, but Bahaullah made this claim, as here are some of His own Writings in His Tablets:


"Thou knowest full well that We perused not the books which men possess and We acquired not the learning current amongst them, and yet whenever We desire to quote the sayings of the learned and of the wise, presently there will appear before the face of thy Lord in the form of a tablet all that which hath appeared in the world and is revealed in the Holy Books and Scriptures. Thus do We set down in writing that which the eye perceiveth. Verily His knowledge encompasseth the earth and the heavens.
This is a Tablet wherein the Pen of the Unseen hath inscribed the knowledge of all that hath been and shall be—a knowledge that none other but My wondrous Tongue can interpret. Indeed My heart as it is in itself hath been purged by God from the concepts of the learned and is sanctified from the utterances of the wise. In truth naught doth it mirror forth but the revelations of God. Unto this beareth witness the Tongue of Grandeur in this perspicuous Book."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 137-152


"Even the Persian ‘ulamá who were at Karbilá and Najaf chose a wise man whom they sent on a mission to Him; his name was Mullá Hasan ‘Amú. He came into the Holy Presence, and proposed a number of questions on behalf of the ‘ulamá, to which Bahá’u’lláh replied. Then Hasan ‘Amú said, “The ‘ulamá recognize without hesitation and confess the knowledge and virtue of Bahá’u’lláh, and they are unanimously convinced that in all learning he has no peer or equal; and it is also evident that he has never studied or acquired this learning; but still the ‘ulamá say, ‘We are not contented with this; we do not acknowledge the reality of his mission by virtue of his wisdom and righteousness. Therefore, we ask him to show us a miracle in order to satisfy and tranquilize our hearts.’”

Bahá’u’lláh – in the words of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá

And also, Bahaullah wrote to the King:

"O King!....The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. This is but a leaf which the winds of the will of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Praised, have stirred."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 57-60

So, according to Bahaullah, His knowledge is not through human learnings, but it has come to Him, by the Will of God.
So, again, I am not trying to defend Bahaullah. But I want to know if from History, are there any evidence to disprove this, or to approve it.
As Bahaullah Himself asked the King "Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely."... so, is it possible to find out if what Bahaullah claimes is true or false? Is it possible to find out 'where', 'when', and 'how' he obtained the detailed knowledge of Religions, and history. What are your thoughts?

Okay then, when he looked at the original Holy Book of Hinduism: Who was the manifestation that revealed it. And what did it say about who God is. And what did it say about the afterlife, if there was reincarnation or not?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Doesn't the Baha'i Faith say there will be a great turmoil like an apocalypse or something?

Yes but I'm hopeful it doesn't come to that.

 

[loverofhumanity]

People do see the need for peace. They do now in their respective religions. Since they see a need for it is it better with one dominate peaceful religion (peaceful dominate religions dont force. Their peaceful) or fifty thousand individual peaceful religions?

If dominate, all religions conform to one foundation.

If individual, each religion has their own foundation.

Its not a trick question. Just taking out specific religions becauae people have so much bias that I can ask the same question without thinking wars and stuff.

Does it matter? As long as they can establish peace and be united then I don't think it matters.

So hopefully the current world will establish peace soon.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Im nit picking because all bahais here give vague answers.


Yes.



Is there one truth of religion and foundation hat other religions coform to to find inner peace (Im only talking about inner peace) or can peace happen with fifthy thousand truths that are not interconnected?

Your question, does not have a simple answer in my understanding.
So, with regards to inner peace, this, in my understanding has to do with our Spiritual status, because happiness comes from within.
In another words, just as for example we would need a Doctor who can recognize physical diseases and give us, the best Medicine, I believe, we also need a Spiritual Physician who can give us practices to improve the status of our Spirit. Now, just so I do not cause misunderstanding, I am not talking about those mental or psychological issues, because those things are also related to our physical health still. But the Spiritual happiness is related to freedom of spirit, and purity of heart, and detachment from worldly things, and many such teachings, which effectively comes from the Teachings of Manifestations. However, in Bahai View, each Manifestations has brought a set of teachings and practices to promote Spiritual Happiness. In Bahai View This is why, we have different Religions, that appeared among different people in different Ages rather than just one. But each Manifestation brought teachings that are mostly suitable for the Age and Conditions of their time and people. In another Words, the Bahais believe, that in this Age, Bahaullah has brought those teachings which are suitable for the conditions of our Age. By learning and practicing His teachings, Bahais believe, they can achieve that Spiritual happiness and peace.
It is like, if a person had a disease before, the doctor would give a medicine for that, but if today that person has another disease, the doctor would not give the same medicine, but a new medicine. Likewise, the Bahais believe, as in each Age has different conditions, and problems, it requires a different set of teachings to treat the diseases of that Age, which are different than previous Ages. Because those things that cause the spiritual problems in each Age, are related to the conditions of that Age, and therefore requires a different remedy. So, in Bahai View, Moses, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and other Manifestations had teachings that were suited, like medicine to treat the problems of older Ages, but now, Bahaullah is the Manifestation for our Time.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What is the definition of peace that all religions share in order to arrive to peace?

(I had this same discussion with loverofhumanity. Wondering if its a bahai thing or does it depend)

I think that peace will depend on everyone acknowledging that we are one human family legally. So we will all be considered citizens of one world and all have rights to food, water, employment, medical care and education. It is not just that some live in comfort and ease while others starve. Also if war is abolished then the $trillions freed will be able to solve world poverty and educate people in an art trade or profession so they can be self subsisting as well as provide universal health care and fix the environment.

So much can be done if we can free the budgets from war.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Im nit picking because all bahais here give vague answers.


Yes.



Is there one truth of religion and foundation hat other religions coform to to find inner peace (Im only talking about inner peace) or can peace happen with fifthy thousand truths that are not interconnected?

So finally you admit you nit pick. Naughty, naughty! Lol.

Dear Carlita, I'm very happy for you to nit pick. Actually you ask very good questions that get me thinking deeply so I don't see it as nit picking at all. I see what you ask as very valid and questions which must be asked.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Does it matter? As long as they can establish peace and be united then I don't think it matters.

So hopefully the current world will establish peace soon.

Actually it does matter or none of us would not have picked or be devoted to our given faiths. If I told everyone to divorce their faith so we can have world peace, would that be healthy to suggest that (in a good way) since it would lead to peace in the end (one foundation) or would it be best for fifty thousand different conflicting religions find their own world peace no matter how long it takes and in what manner they go about it (many foundations)?

I do believe every other religion has an answer to the one-dominate religion or fifty non-dominate religion question. It's not a trick question but just asking whether you agree with a common foundation for all faiths to conform to or have many foundations and let each religion do it's own thing?

Now, I ask this because you say "does it matter" and "you respect diversity." Just by having a faith in and of itself gives you a position of what you agree with and what you don't. I know you like to see the similarity in things but I'm asking an either/or so you can see the differences.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'll be up front. It is wrong that there are manefestations that teach all the same message with disregard to outside or "worldly" things and that they are interconnected or with a central foundation. I disagree with any interconnection with any religion with whom the followers and their scripture clearly have oppositions to each other. I can accept a Christian who says Muslim is false. However, I have severe bias in putting Christian and Muslim teachings together as one central foundation of god without seeing the confliction of both god's plans and messages not just from their day but today as well.

So we won't agree with that.

Your question, does not have a simple answer in my understanding.
So, with regards to inner peace, this, in my understanding has to do with our Spiritual status, because happiness comes from within.
In another words, just as for example we would need a Doctor who can recognize physical diseases and give us, the best Medicine, I believe, we also need a Spiritual Physician who can give us practices to improve the status of our Spirit. Now, just so I do not cause misunderstanding, I am not talking about those mental or psychological issues, because those things are also related to our physical health still. But the Spiritual happiness is related to freedom of spirit, and purity of heart, and detachment from worldly things, and many such teachings, which effectively comes from the Teachings of Manifestations. However, in Bahai View, each Manifestations has brought a set of teachings and practices to promote Spiritual Happiness. In Bahai View This is why, we have different Religions, that appeared among different people in different Ages rather than just one. But each Manifestation brought teachings that are mostly suitable for the Age and Conditions of their time and people. In another Words, the Bahais believe, that in this Age, Bahaullah has brought those teachings which are suitable for the conditions of our Age. By learning and practicing His teachings, Bahais believe, they can achieve that Spiritual happiness and peace.
It is like, if a person had a disease before, the doctor would give a medicine for that, but if today that person has another disease, the doctor would not give the same medicine, but a new medicine. Likewise, the Bahais believe, as in each Age has different conditions, and problems, it requires a different set of teachings to treat the diseases of that Age, which are different than previous Ages. Because those things that cause the spiritual problems in each Age, are related to the conditions of that Age, and therefore requires a different remedy. So, in Bahai View, Moses, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and other Manifestations had teachings that were suited, like medicine to treat the problems of older Ages, but now, Bahaullah is the Manifestation for our Time.

I had an eye condition four years ago and I thought I was going blind. I first went to see a optometrist for glasses. They said it was a medical condition. I saw an opthamologist who sent me to four specialist. Nothing was organically wrong. They say it could be psychological.

If it is psychological it affects my physical well being. It stoped me from going to school, I completely disregarded my spiritual routines, and everything went dead. Spirituality is about the whole health. It's about the heart, the mind, and the body. It is about the worldly things, our environment, and ourselves. It's about everything.

There are many doctors not just one. I found out that each doctor specializes in different parts of the eye. Same as spiritual health. Each doctor specializes in different parts of the body, mind, and soul.

You may say "well they are all doctors. They all have licenses. They all work on the same eye." and try to make these doctors focus on one foundation, but they are not.

These are different doctors and they have different specialitizes that are not just for one time period and not today. It's for all time periods. Christ taught about the future. The Buddha taught about the present. Muslims and Jews look to God only. Christians look to Christ. They may have the same goals but they do not have the same speciality. So it makes them completely different and in my opinion cannot be manefestations f the same god because they are so different in today's time period that to put them togethr would make both parties just laugh.

On top of that, it isn't like a Muslim is trying to put his religion and Christiantiy together or the other way around. It's an outside party (regardless which Universalist religion does it) that tries to combine the two.

But what's even more bothersome is seeing (using the doctor example again) that an opthromologist is compared to a psychiatrist and these two fields are not only different from each other as in area of focus but one works on physical and the other mental.

Anyway, it's just completely inappropriate.

But it is an easy question, though. Most major religions say one foundation and all will have peace. They aren't saying that diversity does not exist or cannot be appreciated. They are just saying that in order to have peace there needs to be one foundation for it.

Other religions say that there is no one foundation because peace comes from the individual person rather than a unit (like above). It comes from working together as individuals rather than conforming to the laws that one may not agree with.

There is no one foundation: There is no Bahaullah. No Christ. No Vishnu. No Ordin. and so forth in non-dominate worldview. There is no prophet religion.

Bahai is a prophet religion.

But I ask can one find world peace with fifty thousand religions that conflict with each other not what you believe about it. I know what Bahai believe but like many prophet faiths, not many religious can see beyond their prophets thoughts.

Just saying it bluntly.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think that peace will depend on everyone acknowledging that we are one human family legally. So we will all be considered citizens of one world and all have rights to food, water, employment, medical care and education. It is not just that some live in comfort and ease while others starve. Also if war is abolished then the $trillions freed will be able to solve world poverty and educate people in an art trade or profession so they can be self subsisting as well as provide universal health care and fix the environment.

So much can be done if we can free the budgets from war.

Not economic world peace. Wars and all that aside.

Do you think world peace can happen if we don't recognize each other as one family?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So finally you admit you nit pick. Naughty, naughty! Lol.

Dear Carlita, I'm very happy for you to nit pick. Actually you ask very good questions that get me thinking deeply so I don't see it as nit picking at all. I see what you ask as very valid and questions which must be asked.

Well, in this case, I had to nit pick since it was getting on my nerves. The beginning of the thread, the questions were pretty clear but I had to simplify it so much that I honestly felt I was going back to my teacher days and walking people through the ABCs. Sounds like an insult but it's true.

But I debate so many times with Christians in the past that to see "them vs. us" from another religion's perspective is refreshing. I do like talking to non-prophet faiths because the openness of spiritual development isn't limited to a spokesman for the "higher party" or person. But since Bahai says both non-prophet and prophet faiths are joined somehow, that made me a bit more interested in the, "ooohh okayeee. that's new." type of thing. Do tell...

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I'll be up front. It is wrong that there are manefestations that teach all the same message with disregard to outside or "worldly" things and that they are interconnected or with a central foundation. I disagree with any interconnection with any religion with whom the followers and their scripture clearly have oppositions to each other. I can accept a Christian who says Muslim is false. However, I have severe bias in putting Christian and Muslim teachings together as one central foundation of god without seeing the confliction of both god's plans and messages not just from their day but today as well.

So we won't agree with that.



I had an eye condition four years ago and I thought I was going blind. I first went to see a optometrist for glasses. They said it was a medical condition. I saw an opthamologist who sent me to four specialist. Nothing was organically wrong. They say it could be psychological.

If it is psychological it affects my physical well being. It stoped me from going to school, I completely disregarded my spiritual routines, and everything went dead. Spirituality is about the whole health. It's about the heart, the mind, and the body. It is about the worldly things, our environment, and ourselves. It's about everything.

There are many doctors not just one. I found out that each doctor specializes in different parts of the eye. Same as spiritual health. Each doctor specializes in different parts of the body, mind, and soul.

You may say "well they are all doctors. They all have licenses. They all work on the same eye." and try to make these doctors focus on one foundation, but they are not.

These are different doctors and they have different specialitizes that are not just for one time period and not today. It's for all time periods. Christ taught about the future. The Buddha taught about the present. Muslims and Jews look to God only. Christians look to Christ. They may have the same goals but they do not have the same speciality. So it makes them completely different and in my opinion cannot be manefestations f the same god because they are so different in today's time period that to put them togethr would make both parties just laugh.

On top of that, it isn't like a Muslim is trying to put his religion and Christiantiy together or the other way around. It's an outside party (regardless which Universalist religion does it) that tries to combine the two.

But what's even more bothersome is seeing (using the doctor example again) that an opthromologist is compared to a psychiatrist and these two fields are not only different from each other as in area of focus but one works on physical and the other mental.

Anyway, it's just completely inappropriate.

But it is an easy question, though. Most major religions say one foundation and all will have peace. They aren't saying that diversity does not exist or cannot be appreciated. They are just saying that in order to have peace there needs to be one foundation for it.

Other religions say that there is no one foundation because peace comes from the individual person rather than a unit (like above). It comes from working together as individuals rather than conforming to the laws that one may not agree with.

There is no one foundation: There is no Bahaullah. No Christ. No Vishnu. No Ordin. and so forth in non-dominate worldview. There is no prophet religion.

Bahai is a prophet religion.

But I ask can one find world peace with fifty thousand religions that conflict with each other not what you believe about it. I know what Bahai believe but like many prophet faiths, not many religious can see beyond their prophets thoughts.

Just saying it bluntly.

Different people have different interpretations of a particular Religion. So, for instance, different Christians have different interpretations of Bible. Likewise different Muslims have different interpretations of Quran.
I believe the Scriptures of different Religions agree with each other if they are interpreted correctly, and for the fact, Bahaullah wrote the Book of Iqan, which removed those obstacles that causes disagreement about fundamental teachings of Scriptures. But this is not just a claim without evidence. The evidence is, there has been many Muslims, who were even learned and Religious Leaders, who believed in Bahaullah, as a Manifestation of God. There has been also, learned and Christian theologians who accepted Bahaullah as Manifestation of this Age. That means, that, the Books of Bahaullah had the ability to give a common understanding of God and His Manifestations to for example a Christian theologian, and a Muslim Scholar. So, while I respect people choice to believe whatever they like, or do not like, but I believe if the Scriptures are interpreted correctly, those conflict views about different Manifestations would disappear. Consider that, in Christian Sources and Islamic Sources, there have been also Prophecies by the founder of their Religions, that many false teachers would rise among their own religion who would cause great misinterpretations of their Holy Book.

For instance, many Christians say, Jesus is God. Many Muslims say, Muhammad is a Prophet, as well as Jesus is a Prophet , Not God.

Bahaullah taught, the Prophets are like Mirrors that reflect and show the image of God perfectly. So, in another words, if we look at the Mirror, which is placed in front of the Sun, indeed we see the Sun in the Mirror. Likewise all attributes of God are Manifested in Prophets.
So, if one looks at the Mirror and says this is a Mirror is True, and also if one looks at Mirror and speaks with regards to the Image, and says this is the Sun, that is also True. In another Words, if one says, Muhammad or Jesus were Prophets and Not God, it is true, and if one says, They are Reflecting Image of God, that is also True. So, there is no conflict between Quran and Bible with this regards. It is just each one expresses a different view of the same Truth.
What might be surprising, this analogy, is what some of the early Christians believed, which has evidence from Bible also and in Islam, there are recorded traditions, agreeing with this belief, which also has evidence from Quran. So, there are also many other different views, which have caused differences, but Bahaullah showed us, the Truth is One, and there is no conflict in the scriptures if they are interpreted according to how God interprets them.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Different people have different interpretations of a particular Religion. So, for instance, different Christians have different interpretations of Bible. Likewise different Muslims have different interpretations of Quran.
I believe the Scriptures of different Religions agree with each other if they are interpreted correctly, and for the fact, Bahaullah wrote the Book of Iqan, which removed those obstacles that causes disagreement about fundamental teachings of Scriptures. But this is not just a claim without evidence. The evidence is, there has been many Muslims, who were even learned and Religious Leaders, who believed in Bahaullah, as a Manifestation of God. There has been also, learned and Christian theologians who accepted Bahaullah as Manifestation of this Age. That means, that, the Books of Bahaullah had the ability to give a common understanding of God and His Manifestations to for example a Christian theologian, and a Muslim Scholar. So, while I respect people choice to believe whatever they like, or do not like, but I believe if the Scriptures are interpreted correctly, those conflict views about different Manifestations would disappear. Consider that, in Christian Sources and Islamic Sources, there have been also Prophecies by the founder of their Religions, that many false teachers would rise among their own religion thay would cause great misinterpretations of their Holy Book.

For instance, many Christians say, Jesus is God. Many Muslims say, Muhammad is a Prophet, as well as Jesus is a Prophet , Not God.

Bahaullah taught, the Prophets are like Mirrors that reflect and show the image of God perfectly. So, in another word, if we look at the Mirror, which is placed in front of the Sun, indeed we see the Sun in the Mirror. Likewise all attributes of God are Manifested in Prophets.
So, if one looks at the Mirror and says this is a Mirror is True, and also if one looks at Mirror and speaks with regards to the Image, and says this is the Sun, that is also True. In another Word, if one says, Muhammad or Jesus were Prophets it is true, and if one says, They are Reflecting Image of God, that is also True. So, there is no conflict between Quran and Bible with this regards. It is just each one expresses a different view of the same Truth.
What might be surprising, this analogy, is what some of the early Christians believed, which has evidence from Bible. Also, in Islam, there are recorded traditions, agreeing with this belief, which also has evidence from Quran. So, there are also many other different views, which have caused differences, but Bahaullah showed us, the Truth is One, and there is no conflict in the scriptures of they are interpreted according to how God interprets them.

I know what you believe, though. I was talking with @loverofhumanity and @adrian about it in more indepth. Since I've already mentioned my point to them, I don't want to keep repeating it. I just look for more understanding outside of your perspective. Do you understand what I am saying and take interest in learning more about my point of view beyond what I type here.

I mean, I asked the one-dominate question and I knew that all prophet faiths are by their nature one-dominate religions. However, all other religions see this but Bahai. That's what confuses me, honestly. Like I said, I can understand why a Christian says a Hindu is false; but, someone outside the Christian and Hindu faith putting the two together as if they have 1, one foundation 2, prophets (which one is a god and other is an incarnation of god) but you believe as prophets with the same message and 3, justifying this by restating your belief isn't doing more than restating your belief.

It's not saying more than "this is what Bahaullah says" and "this is what I agree with."

But if you were a Christian and professed to be christian only then your views wouldn't have a Bahai foundation only christ. So this isn't a different interpretation.

You are trying to mix core teachings of individual "revealed" faiths into one message for peace. Even if it was moral it is historically and by other religions standards, very illogical.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Actually it does matter or none of us would not have picked or be devoted to our given faiths. If I told everyone to divorce their faith so we can have world peace, would that be healthy to suggest that (in a good way) since it would lead to peace in the end (one foundation) or would it be best for fifty thousand different conflicting religions find their own world peace no matter how long it takes and in what manner they go about it (many foundations)?

I do believe every other religion has an answer to the one-dominate religion or fifty non-dominate religion question. It's not a trick question but just asking whether you agree with a common foundation for all faiths to conform to or have many foundations and let each religion do it's own thing?

Now, I ask this because you say "does it matter" and "you respect diversity." Just by having a faith in and of itself gives you a position of what you agree with and what you don't. I know you like to see the similarity in things but I'm asking an either/or so you can see the differences.

We see both happening. First, the nations of the world will unite and form a political unity which will be the abolishment of war and maybe disarmament and things like that. So it will be a political peace. At that time, the religions will all still be scattered and disunited into sects. But that peace will not rid the world of prejudice, violence, hostilities nor will it unite hearts or create world brotherhood. It will be like a body without a spirit or soul. That is what Baha'is term the Lesser Peace. Not peace from the hearts just no wars. And the religions will still be antagonistic and there will be hatred and prejudice between the races and religions. But conditions for the poor would improve as monies spent in war are now freed for helping the people so things like universal education and universal healthcare will be possible.

However, over time, the races and religions will feel the emptiness of a peace not based on spiritual love but just based on politics.

The Baha'i peace. The Most Great Peace, is based upon spiritual love for all humanity and it unites hearts not just political parties. It is a world brotherhood not just an end to war. It is something the world has never achieved in its entire history. It represents the awakening of the latent virtues and potentialities of the human soul.

'The Most Great Peace... a peace that must inevitably follow as the practical consequence of the spiritualization of the world and the fusion of all its races, creeds, classes and nations..." (Effendi)

The difference between the Lesser Peace and the Most Great Peace is one is political and the other spiritual. True happiness can only come from within, from an inner spiritual health.

Some visions however of this peace are envisioned by Baha'u'llah. The condition of humanity then will be one of contentment both inner and outer.

‘For instance [in the future] should a woman ..., who is unsurpassed in her beauty and adorned with the most exquisite and priceless jewels, travel unveiled and alone, from the east of the world to the west thereof, passing through every land and journeying in all countries, there would be such a standard of justice, trustworthiness and faith on the one hand, and lack of treachery and degradation on the other, that no one would be found who would wish to rob her of her possessions or to cast a treacherous and lustful eye upon her beauteous chastity!...’ Then Bahá’u’lláh affirmed, ‘Through the power of God I shall transform the peoples of the world into this exalted state and shall open this most great door to the face of all humanity. (Adib Vol 3)

He is My true follower who, if he come to a valley of pure gold will pass straight through it aloof as a cloud, and will neither turn back, nor pause. Such a man is assuredly of Me. From his garment the Concourse on high can inhale the fragrance of sanctity... And if he met the fairest and most comely of women, he would not feel his heart seduced by the least shadow of desire for her beauty.

It's up to people if they are happy to have the Lesser Peace with the same hatreds and prejudices, religious and racial as now or want something deeper that is more along the lines of unity of hearts and world brotherhood.

I personally choose the Most Great Peace and am working towards it because I hunger for more than just an outward truce between governments. I see everyone as my family and my brothers and sisters and I want this to be a world where we can walk at night without fear and not have to close our doors. A world of trust where none go in need. A world free of rape, violence and racism and where religions no longer compete but join together as one people united.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Well, in this case, I had to nit pick since it was getting on my nerves. The beginning of the thread, the questions were pretty clear but I had to simplify it so much that I honestly felt I was going back to my teacher days and walking people through the ABCs. Sounds like an insult but it's true.

But I debate so many times with Christians in the past that to see "them vs. us" from another religion's perspective is refreshing. I do like talking to non-prophet faiths because the openness of spiritual development isn't limited to a spokesman for the "higher party" or person. But since Bahai says both non-prophet and prophet faiths are joined somehow, that made me a bit more interested in the, "ooohh okayeee. that's new." type of thing. Do tell...

I'm happy that you're so patient. You and Vinayaka are so patient. That you can debate so intelligently without getting angry or upset and with courtesy really to me is amazing. It's a pleasure to talk with people like that.

I'm just happy to talk to you guys. You're good company and I learn so much. By now you should realise that we just enjoy your company and talking about anything. It doesn't have to be Baha'i but we have teachings on everything from music to architecture to work to consultation. We can branch out into just about any topic and it would have likely something written about it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We see both happening. First, the nations of the world will unite and form a political unity which will be the abolishment of war and maybe disarmament and things like that. So it will be a political peace. At that time, the religions will all still be scattered and disunited into sects. But that peace will not rid the world of prejudice, violence, hostilities nor will it unite hearts or create world brotherhood. It will be like a body without a spirit or soul. That is what Baha'is term the Lesser Peace. Not peace from the hearts just no wars. And the religions will still be antagonistic and there will be hatred and prejudice between the races and religions. But conditions for the poor would improve as monies spent in war are now freed for helping the people so things like universal education and universal healthcare will be possible.

However, over time, the races and religions will feel the emptiness of a peace not based on spiritual love but just based on politics.

The Baha'i peace. The Most Great Peace, is based upon spiritual love for all humanity and it unites hearts not just political parties. It is a world brotherhood not just an end to war. It is something the world has never achieved in its entire history. It represents the awakening of the latent virtues and potentialities of the human soul.

'The Most Great Peace... a peace that must inevitably follow as the practical consequence of the spiritualization of the world and the fusion of all its races, creeds, classes and nations..." (Effendi)

The difference between the Lesser Peace and the Most Great Peace is one is political and the other spiritual. True happiness can only come from within, from an inner spiritual health.

Some visions however of this peace are envisioned by Baha'u'llah. The condition of humanity then will be one of contentment both inner and outer.

‘For instance [in the future] should a woman ..., who is unsurpassed in her beauty and adorned with the most exquisite and priceless jewels, travel unveiled and alone, from the east of the world to the west thereof, passing through every land and journeying in all countries, there would be such a standard of justice, trustworthiness and faith on the one hand, and lack of treachery and degradation on the other, that no one would be found who would wish to rob her of her possessions or to cast a treacherous and lustful eye upon her beauteous chastity!...’ Then Bahá’u’lláh affirmed, ‘Through the power of God I shall transform the peoples of the world into this exalted state and shall open this most great door to the face of all humanity. (Adib Vol 3)

He is My true follower who, if he come to a valley of pure gold will pass straight through it aloof as a cloud, and will neither turn back, nor pause. Such a man is assuredly of Me. From his garment the Concourse on high can inhale the fragrance of sanctity... And if he met the fairest and most comely of women, he would not feel his heart seduced by the least shadow of desire for her beauty.

It's up to people if they are happy to have the Lesser Peace with the same hatreds and prejudices, religious and racial as now or want something deeper that is more along the lines of unity of hearts and world brotherhood.

I personally choose the Most Great Peace and am working towards it because I hunger for more than just an outward truce between governments. I see everyone as my family and my brothers and sisters and I want this to be a world where we can walk at night without fear and not have to close our doors. A world of trust where none go in need. A world free of rape, violence and racism and where religions no longer compete but join together as one people united.

You're confusing me. I'm only talking about inner spiritual peace.

It is alright to be a one-dominate (or one foundation) religion. Most religions are to some degree but the perspectives of abrahamic faiths are different in that regards than does eastern faiths or just all non abrahamics in general.

Take out the war and politics. I'm not talking about that.

I know you believe both many religions do. You just don't believe them on an equal level even far enough to differentiate peace into lesser and greater when peace is just peace.

Inner peace is both political, spiritual, and all of the above. It's life.

No division in spirituality. Right?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm happy that you're so patient. You and Vinayaka are so patient. That you can debate so intelligently without getting angry or upset and with courtesy really to me is amazing. It's a pleasure to talk with people like that.

I'm just happy to talk to you guys. You're good company and I learn so much. By now you should realise that we just enjoy your company and talking about anything. It doesn't have to be Baha'i but we have teachings on everything from music to architecture to work to consultation. We can branch out into just about any topic and it would have likely something written about it.

THAT'S RIGHT! Thanks for remind me.

Hope you can open these. I do mostly therapeutic art when it comes to drawing but here are some I for my father.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You are trying to mix core teachings of individual "revealed" faiths into one message for peace.

That is not how I as a Bahai View it.
The Bahais are not trying to mix core teachings of individual religions into one message to promote peace!
Bahai Faith promotes peace, by emphasizing on ethics, as well as new set of teachings, which is a new world order, that only exist in Bahai Scriptures.
However, for Bahais, their Scriptures also reconciles those different views of the followers of other Religions. For instance, the Muslims believe in finality of Islam, and Quran. How is it that, many Muslim Religious Scholars have become Bahais, and accepting that another Revelation came after Islam, while they still believed in Truth of Quran and Muhammad? What does that tell? It would tell that, the Bahai Scriptures have enough logical arguments and evidence to convince such people who had firmly believed in finality of Islam, and yet, willingly accepted that another greater Revelation has come. These people were not ignorant or illiterate, that we can say, they were tricked. They had significant knowledge of Islam. And many of them had such firm beliefs that, even accepted to be killed in Persia or go to prison, and still not to recant their faith, thus their belief had no worldly benefit for them. But they remained firm, because they believed it to be Truth, and not just something that artificially tries to make it look like all the Religions had one common source.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Not economic world peace. Wars and all that aside.

Do you think world peace can happen if we don't recognize each other as one family?

No. True peace can only reign when we begin caring for each other as we would our own family.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Bahais are not trying to mix core teachings of individual religions into one message to promote peace!

I say that because of the manifestations of "prophets" of religions that conflict Bahai find similarities in. It's not a bad thing. It is what it is.

Bahai Faith promotes peace, by emphasizing on ethics, as well as new set of teachings, which is a new world order, that only exist in Bahai Scriptures.

My point exactly. New world order only existing in Bahai scriptures is a "one-dominate" statement of religion. Non-dominate religions do not shape their views as "only" and words like that.

However, for Bahais, their Scriptures also reconciles those different views of the followers of other Religions

True. However Hindu, Christian, and Buddhism for example, do not reconcile with Bahai views.

In order to reconcile, they both have to agree with each other. They don't.

Another example of one-dominate statements.

For instance, the Muslims believe in finality of Islam, and Quran. How is it that, many Muslim Religious Scholars have become Bahais, and accepting that another Revelation came after Islam, while they still believed in Truth of Quran and Muhammad?

I don't know about Islam. Though I can speak of Christianity and Buddhism where the former do not have Bahaullah in their scriptures and the latter does not believe in god.

What does that tell?

That Bahai is a one-dominate faith finding connections with multiple revealed religions with whom each of whom they call prophets are manifestations of god to prophecy the promised one Bahauallah to teach a new world order from old ways.

Nothing immoral about it. Just illogical in my opinion.

It would tell that, the Bahai Scriptures have enough logical arguments and evidence to convince such people who had firmly believed in finality of Islam, and yet, willingly accepted that another greater Revelation has come.

If that be the case, others would conform to Bahai. Fortunately, everyone has their own religions that have similar "world order" oulooks just in differ wording. The goals are similar. The core values and definition of peace, for example, are different.

Every prophet-religion says they have evidence. I never believed it. Religion doesn't work that way.

These people were not ignorant or illiterate, that we can say, they were tricked. They had significant knowledge of Islam. And many of them had such firm beliefs that, even accepted to be killed in Persia or go to prison, and still not to recant their faith, thus their belief had no worldly benefit for them. But they remained firm, because they believed it to be Truth, and not just something that artificially tries to make it look like all the Religions had one common source.

I can't speak about Islam. I can talk more about Christianity (specifically Catholicism) and Buddhism though.

My point remains, though. If you are building world peace, there is no new world order under bahaullah's teachings.