How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

What is the worldwide Bahai population according to the official Bahai website? And what is the Bahai worldwide population according to non-bahai sources?

I don't know. I just know that all such things are really hard to determine. Someone just quitting, becoming non-practicing might show in one count, but not in another. It's like trying to predict the number of Hindus in my city. Really really hard to do. I also know that history is fulol of misrepresentation of numbers.

At age 17 I learned this concept, and started ignoring it. I was hitchhiking and caught a ride with a Vietnam war vet. He said that his little group of front line fighters made a pact, just to try to stay alive, in a war that they didn't want to be at. So every day they walked to the top of the nearest hill, and fired off several rounds of ammunition. Then later that day their officer in charge would phone in and make up a story about how they had encountered and killed 2 or 3 or 0 Viet Kong. Those statistics were kepty asd if they were fact.

That conversation got me to thinking. Numbers are simply a tool for propaganda, and Bahai clearly uses it to advance the cause. Of the 160 countries where Bahai is supposedly active, how many are just 2 Pioneers calling their apartment a Bahai center. We will never know, and that's the point her. We simply don't know.

 

[Vinayaka]

because there is a lot of false information about Bahais on the internet, that was deliberately put on the internet, trying to misrepresent the Bahais.

Yes of course, that's the way it is with all dissidents, although Bahai seems to have an usually high number. But at the same time I've seen Bahais misrepresenting all other faiths, for their own agenda. So maybe all have a double standard?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Christianity (the body of christ) is heavily devoted to christ and christ only. They even disregard the jews view for their own. Why would they accept bahaullah?

.

You see, you are asking "Why would they accept bahaullah?" .

But i think the better question is, if Bahaullah has fulfilled the Prophecies of Return of Christ, why most Christians have not accepted Him?

I Quote from Bahaullah to answer:

the Christian divines have failed to apprehend the meaning of these words, and did not recognize their object and purpose, and have clung to the literal interpretation of the words of Jesus, they therefore became deprived .... The ignorant among the Christian community, following the example of the leaders of their faith, were likewise prevented from beholding the beauty of the King of glory...."


.

If you cant accept their beliefs as facts, then how do you expect me to believe you when you are not christian and your interpretation of christian scripture is not from a christian view but from bahaullah?

Makes no sense.

Why do you think that the interpretations of Christians are correct, and that they have understood the meanings of the Words of God correctly? I think you should read Bahaullah's interpretations and compare it with the interpretations of Christians and see which one is correct. But if you have not yet investigated about this, do you not think, it is not appropriate to judge? How could we judge correctly, before looking into details and evidences?
And let's remember, when Jesus came to Jews and said to them that He was their Messiah, the Jews did not accept Him, saying to Him, that you do not match with the Messiah that we expect.
What historical lesson can be learned from this, in your View?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But at the same time I've seen Bahais misrepresenting all other faiths, for their own agenda. So maybe all have a double standard?

I have not seen that Bahais misrepresent all other Faiths, so, i am not sure what you mean. And what is the Bahai agenda in your opinion?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The main reason we don't have peace now is Baha'u'llah is out of the equation. No matter what they've tried, anything short of the unity of mankind and religion just isn't working.

The Baha'i Community proves the unity of religion brings peace.

That is what I figured. I understood about all the war and everything, inner and outer peace, and all of that.

Though, if I took it personally, that would mean I have no peace because I am not in the Bahai community.

The community or society are made up of actual individual people. Individual Christians, Muslims, Hindu, and Buddhist (and others) have their faith with peace with others. Bahai are not the only ones.

You can't judge a person's peace and their displacement from Bahai on society's problems. Diversity means respecting people who have their own peace

inner peace and real peace

without being part of the Bahai community.

If that is impossible to do, then your faith is specifically a dominate faith. Nothing wrong with it in and of itself. Everyone has a right to believe what they choose.

We don't have peace now is Baha'u'llah is out of the equation​

I have to quote you directly. When I don't, it seems you go around the bush. This is my whole point.

We can.

You are just not giving other religions enough credit to do so without incorporating their teachings into the Bahai faith. It's completely disrespectful without their agreement in the matter. But if this is how you see it, there will be no agreement.

You are contributing to division just as every other person you say are. This post proves it. I don't know what else to say.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Since this is the 3227th post, I figure not to go over again what I understand of Bahai, researched, and read from all Bahai who post scriptures proving their points. I'm not a scripture quoter and find it disrespectful to quote scripture just to make a point rather than educational reasons. I rather just talk to the believer.

But i think the better question is, if Bahaullah has fulfilled the Prophecies of Return of Christ, why most Christians have not accepted Him?

No.

You see, you are asking "Why would they accept bahaullah?" .

Why would they accept Bahaullah not what you think about it. I believe them more because they identify as christians and are intimate with christian scripture. I experienced it through the Church so it's not just internet knowledge (and even if it were, I'd still ask a Christian to confirm like I do with Hindu and other faiths).

Why do you think that the interpretations of Christians are correct, and that they have understood the meanings of the Words of God correctly?

That's their personal belief. You're calling christians liars by that statement. Why would you think they don't know their own faith and know it personally?

That's like asking a Hindu about Christian scripture all because he says Vishnu is the same god as the God of Abraham because they both share the same characteristics of love and compassion. Then continue on to say, Krishna is the incarnation of Vishnu and god of this day and the incarnation of god of abraham is no longer applicable for today.

Then I think. What in the, um, world does Hinduism have to do with Christianity. It's not Jewish. It's not Roman. It's even older than both combined.

They are correct in what I studied from scripture and personal experience. Bahai are not correct one because of the lack of personal experience and identification as christian and two the historical periods and confliction in both religious views just makes what Bahai say in this whole thread very inaccurate.

Haha. It's like having a line ______ (Christian) and another line _______ Hindu with a gap in between. Then Bahai comes in and says Bahaullah predicted because the lines are on the level that in between, they will connect. We know this because it was prophesied first by Christ, Muhammad, Krishna, and so forth.

You can't make a claim that's not even there. Prophecies have not been fulfilled. The gap is still there. It's not up to Bahaullah to fill that gap. World peace (inner peace) doesn't depend on one person but a net of people. All people not just revealed religions.

Understand?

But if you have not yet investigated about this, do you not think, it is not appropriate to judge?

That's an assumption. Please ask.

 

[Vinayaka]

I have not seen that Bahais misrepresent all other Faiths, so, i am not sure what you mean. And what is the Bahai agenda in your opinion?

Bahai labels Hinduism as just another religion previous to the Abrahamic faiths, failing to recognise how incredibly different it is. Like I said before I've explained this over and over to other Bahais in this thread, and don't have the time to do it again. You're free to read the entire thread if you wish. But in short, and Hinduism that is mentioned by Bahai is just one sect, called Gaudiya Vaishnavism, and we Hindus are much larger than that. It (Bahai) also fails to deal with many other great religions like Paganism at all, preferring to ignore it. I suppose it could be argued that ignoring is different than misrepresenting.

I get the sense also, that Bahais figure they know more about the 'real' Christianty, the 'real' Islam, the 'real' Hinduism than the practitioners of these great faiths themselves do. Of course that is your right, but the rest of us would disagree, which is also our right.

Again, I'm not prepared to go into great detail as I already did ... far more than rationality would tell me to. lol.

This really feels to me that other Bahai PMed you and asked you to take a turn at this foray, maybe collectively you guys are just trying to wear Carlita and myself down.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Bahai labels Hinduism as just another religion previous to the Abrahamic faiths, failing to recognise how incredibly different it is. Like I said before I've explained this over and over to other Bahais in this thread, and don't have the time to do it again. You're free to read the entire thread if you wish. But in short, and Hinduism that is mentioned by Bahai is just one sect, called Gaudiya Vaishnavism, and we Hindus are much larger than that. It (Bahai) also fails to deal with many other great religions like Paganism at all, preferring to ignore it. I suppose it could be argued that ignoring is different than misrepresenting.

I get the sense also, that Bahais figure they know more about the 'real' Christianty, the 'real' Islam, the 'real' Hinduism than the practitioners of these great faiths themselves do. Of course that is your right, but the rest of us would disagree, which is also our right.

Again, I'm not prepared to go into great detail as I already did ... far more than rationality would tell me to. lol.

This really feels to me that other Bahai PMed you and asked you to take a turn at this foray, maybe collectively you guys are just trying to wear Carlita and myself down.

Yeah. Actually I do feel worn out to tell you honestly. Are there any intermissons?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The point here is that it is highly unlikely that the number of Bahai adherents is as high as it is portrayed by Bahai, but that exaggeration is just natural.

According to official website of Bahais:


"There are more than 5 million Bahá’ís in the world."

Statistics | Bahá’í World News Service (BWNS)

And here are some non-Bahai sources regarding population of Bahais:

• The CIA World Factbook reports 0.11% of the world which in its 2010 estimate works out to 7.8 million Bahá'ís.[46]
• The World Religion Database states there are 7.3 million Bahá'ís in 2010.[47]
• The World Factbook states that Bahá'ís make up 0.12% of the world based on a 2007 estimate,[48]corresponding to 7.9 million people.
• The 2005 Association of Religion Data Archives estimate is of 7.6 million[49] which is also echoed elsewhere.[50]

• Encyclopædia Britannica in mid-2004 estimated a total of 7.5 million Bahá’ís

Bahá'í statistics - Wikipedia


As you see, the official Bahai website says, there are more than 5 millions, but the Non-bahai websites state more than 7 millions. It is obvious that if Bahais wanted to exaggerate their population, they would have at least claimed more than seven millions, but that is not the case. Just a fact!

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I think it is noteworthy, in attempting to answer that question, that Baha'u'llah seemed to receive divine knowledge only about religious texts that were known to have been translated into the Persian language and were available in Persia during his lifetime.

Bahaullah's mother tongue was Persian. According to Bahai Researchers, there are about 17000 works found from Bahaullah. Some of them a Book, and some of them Tablets of a few page, or just a page.
Many of these Writings (about half of it I would think) are in Classical Arabic.) The Language that was not Bahaullah's mother tongue. According to history, He did not have training in Arabic, but He was well versed in Arabic. Just Another mystery!

.... But if it was by direct revelation, how does anyone else know that?

Good question.
This is known, because, when Bahaullah's knowledge of details of Books and religious traditions, was not through human learning, such as studying, or going to school or having teacher or books, then the source of knowledge must be supper natural. Naturally people know details of what is written in books only if they have read them, or had a teacher, but if a person knows the details of books without human learning, that means he knew them through supper natural inspiration. Is there another option?

Anybody could say they had received a divine revelation.

Anybody could say. But how many you know who have known details of books, without reading them before?

 

[Vinayaka]

According to official website of Bahais:


"There are more than 5 million Bahá’ís in the world."

Good to know that Bahais seemingly don't exaggerate. I can never remember which sites I've read and which I haven't. One site I read had the population at 12 million back in 1907. So it's hard to do. Not that important, IMHO.

 

[Vinayaka]

Anybody could say. But how many you know who have known details of books, without reading them before?

You'd be surprised how many Hindu sages have that siddhi. Most don't brag about it though.

 

[sayak83]

Is there anything here than the old same old same old refrain:- "the world would be at peace if everybody agreed with me“. I mean c'mon..

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You'd be surprised how many Hindu sages have that siddhi. Most don't brag about it though.

I believe, only Bahaullah and other Manifestations had innate knowledge.
After the Manifestations, the Divinely inspired successors had been inspired by Manifestations. Those are people like Abdulbaha, Shia Imams, and the lessor Prophets such as the Ones in Bible. I also think in Hinduism, there has been inspired people who are equivalent to the lessor Prophets, though in Hinduism, you may use a different terminology for Prophets, but it really does not matter. Whether you call Them Prophets, or devinely inspired teachers or perhaps another term in Hinduism or Buddhism, the idea is that, there are specific people only who have innate knowledge. However, I believe, only in the case of Bahaullah, it can historically be investigated and proved that He had innate knowledge. As regards to previous Manifestations, because They lived long ago, their history is not verifiable and there is not a lot known about Them, and in some cases it is even not possible to prove They existed or, Their existence is debated. But Bahaullah lived about 150 years ago, in a time, that recording history was much easier, and that is why there are perhaps thousands of pages of history about the Days of Bahaullah, and early Bahai Faith history, so, we can know and verify the details, and make conclusions that Bahaullah did not have the books, and did not study them, and did not learn these things from other people. He just knew these things, through His own innate knowledge.

 

[Vinayaka]

I believe, only Bahaullah and other Manifestations had innate knowledge.

Yes of course. You are stating the Bahai beliefs. I've read it about 50 times already in this thread. Anything new?

All prophet based religions say the same thing. There is only one true prophet. The names change, but little else.

I think Baha'u'llah must have has some sort of magnetic charisma, or was surrounded by several quite gullible people. He did attract more followers than most of his ilk, and there has to be a reason for this. There are lots of people who say the same thing, (I'm here, I'm here. I'm the new messiah!) a couple have even made their way to this forum, and many are in long term care facilities.

Here's a typical example. Meher Baba - Wikipedia

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Yes of course. You are stating the Bahai beliefs. I've read it about 50 times already in this thread. Anything new?

All prophet based religions say the same thing. There is only one true prophet. The names change, but little else.

I think Baha'u'llah must have has some sort of magnetic charisma, or was surrounded by several quite gullible people. He did attract more followers than most of his ilk, and there has to be a reason for this. There are lots of people who say the same thing, (I'm here, I'm here. I'm the new messiah!) a couple have even made their way to this forum, and many are in long term care facilities.

Here's a typical example. Meher Baba - Wikipedia

"Meher Baba spent seven years studying with Masters..."

Meher Baba

And that is the difference. Bahaullah did not study with anybody, neither He had books to study them. He knew everything from His own innate knowledge. And this is according to History. It is not speculation. Bahaullah wrote to the King confidently, to come and investigate. He did not tell people to blindly accept Him. This is not about bragging. Bahaullah says whenever God Manifests His Messenger among people, He ask all to obey and follow Him. But how could God expects people to recognize this Person and obey Him, if God does not give Evidence and proof to Him? It would be unfair. So, Bahaullah says, this is the evidence God gave, He knows all things, come and ask Me anything, I know everything without studying, and this is what God has given Me so that you may know I am not a false Prophet.

 

[Vinayaka]

"Meher Baba spent seven years studying with Masters..."

Meher Baba

And that is the difference. Bahaullah did not study with anybody, neither He had books to study them. He knew everything from His own innate knowledge. And this is according to History. It is not speculation. Bahaullah wrote to the King confidently, to come and investigate. He did not tell people to blindly accept Him. This is not about bragging. Bahaullah says whenever God Manifests His Messenger among people, He ask all to obey and follow Him. But how could God expects people to recognize this Person and obey Him, if God does not give Evidence and proof to Him? It would be unfair. So, Bahaullah says, this is the evidence God gave, He knows all things, come and ask Me anything, I know everything without studying, and this is what God has given Me so that you may know I am not a false Prophet.

You simply are not getting my point. Meher Baba was just one example. I wasn't saying anything true or false about him, other than to say he claimed to be the messiah. He certainly wasn't my Guru, nor do I consider him a messiah. Here is a more complete list for you. You can go through every single one, if you wish, and find reasons why they were false.

List of messiah claimants - Wikipedia

Each and every one of these have ONE main thing in common. That is that their devotees all claim that their guy is the one and only one true messiah. Bahais think Baha'u'llah was. Christians think Christ is. BAPS Swaminarayan think Swaminarayan was. Muslims think Muhammed was. Followers of Sri Aurobindu think he was. The Brahma Kumaris thing their founder was, The followers of Shirdi Sai Baba think he was. LDS church think Joseph Smith was. 1200 people committed suicide, thinking Jim Jones was. There are differences, but the overall pattern is the same, in all prophet of r messiah based religions.

And in each case (well, not quite, perhaps, but in most) they think all others were false.

So it is a recognisable pattern that goes like this. "________ is the messiah, and all others are false, lesser, etc." That's just the general pattern. Some claim infallibility.

In some cases it gets a bit more specific. Some wrote books. Some claim to have been divinely inspired. Some wrote books from stuff they 'saw' on tablets. Some put long titles before their names. Some have miracles claimed about them. Some were shown as phonies. It goes on and on. Claims of being God. We have had at least 2 people come onto these forums and make the very same claim. Probably more.

Yes, you believe Baha'u'llah was God's spokesperson or whatever. For you that is absolute truth. I get that. But it simply doesn't see the wider picture. There are dozens of Baha'u'llahs out there. It's called prophet based religion.

It's the same old story told over and over. "I'm right and you're wrong."

Fortunately for me, Hindus don't see it this way.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

"Meher Baba spent seven years studying with Masters..."

Meher Baba

And that is the difference. Bahaullah did not study with anybody, neither He had books to study them. He knew everything from His own innate knowledge. And this is according to History. It is not speculation. Bahaullah wrote to the King confidently, to come and investigate. He did not tell people to blindly accept Him. This is not about bragging. Bahaullah says whenever God Manifests His Messenger among people, He ask all to obey and follow Him. But how could God expects people to recognize this Person and obey Him, if God does not give Evidence and proof to Him? It would be unfair. So, Bahaullah says, this is the evidence God gave, He knows all things, come and ask Me anything, I know everything without studying, and this is what God has given Me so that you may know I am not a false Prophet.

Yes, i am aware that there are many who claimed to be Prophets of God, or God's incarnations, who claim to have a new message from God, but only Those Religions which are Truly from God, can remain. The false religions vanish quickly, often less than 10 years.
As Jesus said also:

"Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots." Matthew 15:13

"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." Matthew 17:19

 

[oldbadger]

And at the top of the pile, you can add women.

Hi....
Female Bahais do have the vote, can sit upon local and national spiritual assemblies, which one day might be houses of justice.
But they are excluded from the Universal (World) House of Justice, and it looks as if they might be overlooked from some duties.... I remember reading that males would handle treasure trove claims or finds, or something like that.

But you.... and I.... shall be voteless!!

 

[oldbadger]

Besides what would we do without the full moon frolickers? They need to be happy too.

If you spent one full moon with us....... you'd be a pagan........ but you might be a happy one, who knows?
Mrs Winstanley would love you to death, I feel sure!