Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
but there is no evidence of a literal god but people put their faith in god so, why would we consider believer's experiences literal and fact but the resurrection symbolism and unproven?
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How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
but there is no evidence of a literal god but people put their faith in god so, why would we consider believer's experiences literal and fact but the resurrection symbolism and unproven?
While I agree that we make decisions that are about us personally, sometimes its not just about us but considering the needs of humanity too.
My concern is not just for myself, but for my family, community, and ultimately the world.
A proof of God comes back to the OP for this thread and that is the example and teachings of the Great Founders of religion. The power of love, compassion, and truth makes sense. A man physically rising into the sky where the people of that time believed heaven existed, makes little sense.
No, just misunderstood.
Thus will we ask again and broaden the scope. Of all the Holy men that have walked this earth, of all Holy Books Written, of all Science man has produced, to date has the Essence of God be found?
What one can find is that all the Great Beings talk about the attributes of God and each say it is beyond them to know the Essence of God or the cause of Creation.
Please post the Hindu Teachers knowledge of Gods Essence.
If they can not, we talk of attaining to the same knowledge. We are talking the same talk, we are walking the same walk.
Regards Tony
The Evidence goes back to the OP as well. They are the evidence, they also give themselves as that evidence.
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The man raising up to the sky is the body of christ rising up in flesh before giving new bodies to be in union with god. When you say the resurrection is symbolism, you say the body's resurrection and union (and salvation) is symbolic. To many, symbolism is meaningful others like facts.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Reminds me of when I looked up a word in the dictionary. I think it was something like What does the word "Floating" mean? I looked it up, and it said "something that floats."
Same as the great teachers. If you don't believe in men's (women and men) testimonies outside of sacred-scriptures (which is weird since its only been near 2,000 years) to validate great teachers claims, what prove do you have other than trusting them to tell you they exist rather than an outside party?
Same as god. Usually, believers prove god. Using one's own claim to prove oneself true. Maybe you can do that in some religions but it doesnt make sense in many others nor does it logically outside of religion on any topic-dictionary included.
I suppose if you go to church and hear it enough and say it, eventually it becomes a belief. That's fine, providing we can distinguish beliefs from facts. The physical resurrection of Christ is a belief, not a fact.
An obligatory prayer that many Baha'is recite each day states that 'Thou has created me to know Thee and to worship Thee'
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
It's a christian fact. How I experienced it is through Mass. You live, die, and rise into union with god through christ. The body literally becomes in union through listening to the gospel and saying to each other peace (life), confession and pentenence before communion (die), and communing with the body with the core which is Christ (the Eucharist) and in the literal Eucharist one is in union with god. That is the resurrection-the actual flesh and blood of the people in christ. They make christ literally present whent hey come together and commune.
Saying it is symbolic is saying a christian's salvation and christ's full passion is symbolic. While I don't believe in in anymore, I do know it is a fact by experience.
It's like telling me that I wasn't resurrected in union with god (how I defined him at the time) it was just symbolic like the people were just invisible and the Eucharist was fake.
People actually believe their bodies/flesh will rise and die and be made anew. Anything other than that is new age or modern. It's one thing to say you believe it's symbolism, it's a whole nother thing to say to another person its symbolism as if it were a fact rather than your opinion.
When we call our beliefs facts and insist they are true because we believe them, it becomes hard to have a reasonable conversation.
I don't see how you can call something a fact that you no longer believe in.
I assume you understand the difference between objective and subjective?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
It's like my ex. I still love my ex, but I am not in love with her anymore. I don't devote my time with her because we are totally separate people with separate values. It is a fact we love each other. It is a fact that we fell out of love with each other.
In other words, when someone is in love, it's another word for the fact of how our bodies function physiologically and psychologically when we are mentally, spiritually, and physically attracted to someone. You can see these facts in an EEG and talk about how these facts influence people when someone breaks up with them.
Same as the Church. When you go into the Church, you are physically surrounded by people (a body-a Mass). The body of people is what scripture calls the body of christ. He explains it by limbs of his body and living example of his care and relationship with his disciples as well as teaching believers to be brothers and sisters worshiping god. So when more than one come together, christ becomes present.
That is Christ's life-his body. Throughout Mass, we are celebrating the life of his body (just as with my relationship, I acted in it not just believed).
Then you have christ (he body's) death; crucifixion. Which means the flesh which is sin (in scripture) dies on the cross. In Mass, christians do this through confession so they are forgiven and their sins pardoned. The flesh dies so they are back in union with the body and christ physically and spiritually again.
When the body dies (the flesh/sins literally are forgiven) the christian now is cleansed and can be resurrected in christ. Since the body is real people-the body actually does rise in christ by communion. Resurrection is: union with god.
You are talking about the body physically flying up in the sky. The scripture is talking about union with god. Union with god to a christian is literal. That union is the resurrection (the going up to be with the lord). They do this through communion. Communion means union with god through christ.
It puts christ's "body" together so christ is back with his father.
To say this is symbolic, is basically saying the passion and mass (or sermon or study) is fake. It is a wrong word for describing the nature of the resurrection. Some people use spiritual but those in the Church use literal because the physical body goes through the whole thing in Mass where in many non liturgical churches, they don't go through the whole physical part. Some skip parts all together.
Maybe that's what you're referring to. Many protestants believe christ physically rose but never associate their resurrection with christ's resurrection. So they are literally worshiping a human being rather than service to humanity as one body of people. This is all literal.
Many psychologist have studied religious experiences and why people develop beliefs in god and so forth. Symbolic isn't the appropriate term. I don't know many denominations that believe christ rose like superman. Liturgical churches place emphasis on the people (christ's body) joined by his spirit.
Maybe you're focusing on one denominational point of view. Not every denomination and christian believe christ flies away like superman. Literal resurrection is union with god. It's not flying. That's silly.
I mean, I asked the priest is he really drinking and consuming christ and he laughed and said no. But it is literal because it is a sacrificial meal.
Have to change your perspective.
RoaringSilence
Active Member
THey are waiting for us to quit so they can take control of the topic that is bahai owned. they just waiting for yu to stop bothering them and questioning them .. coz at the end its potters clay on a potters wheel of the bhai..
you will not get satisfaction ... but more disappointment if you think this is about arriving at peace .. the promise of the peace is guised in giving vague dissatisfaction and the wit of perseverance wins .
This is not about Unity ..its about 1 religion 1 law..this isnt about how you are different ...but if you are different you are wrong.
You are a bot for worship and knowing the creator , who has filled you with guilt of sin.
When you all quit this sponsored post will be all bahai victory. whoever likes to get thier heads chopped in a mind eating bot start right here ......
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No
I'm comfortable with what both Christian and Baha'is believe. Christians believe that the resurrection is literally true and I accept that though don't agree with it. The resurrection is often cited as the power of Christ and the superiority of Christianity over other religions. Many Christians feel strongly about the resurrection. It is what it is. It is much more important to live the life and respect other peoples values and beliefs than to prove who is right or wrong.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
No
I'm comfortable with what both Christian and Baha'is believe. Christians believe that the resurrection is literally true and I accept that though don't agree with it. The resurrection is often cited as the power of Christ and the superiority of Christianity over other religions. Many Christians feel strongly about the resurrection. It is what it is. It is much more important to live the life and respect other peoples values and beliefs than to prove who is right or wrong.
So you never want to see things another person's shoes? Build greater peace that way if we think of others too.
Just sayin'
So you never want to see things another person's shoes? Build greater peace that way if we think of others too.
I can see it from the Christians point of view. It is one of their essential non-negotiable beliefs. I'm happy to discuss it with Christians if they want. I'm not sure what else I can do. Do you? You don't believe its true and nor do I.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Yet, I can step in your shoes to understand what you're saying without needing to compromise my beliefs. I do that with Muslims and Christians who are not Catholics. They have a totally different mindset than liturgical denomination followers. JW chat and I see in their shoes. We know my beliefs won't change (though they don't mind reminding me about god) but then they did ask me about The Buddha so they can look it up too. They are also friends of mine.
So, greater world peace can happen if we stop thinking of ourselves.
It is not about us.
I agree with everything you have said here and that is the Baha'i way. Often those who are not Baha'is can give a better example of what to means to be Baha'i than the Baha'is themselves.
I just love the rainbow song btw. I know it may have a different meaning for us both. To me it is about friendship and love.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
To me, the rainbow means equality and diversity. (I know you will agree
but LGBT sees it a tad bit different than heterosexuals; least that's my experiences)Why would you say no then say that is the Bahai way?