How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

The source is God, according to every single individual claiming they had communication from God.

That is where verification is needed and it suggested by this post that the Great Beings are the only ones that can demonstrate that they have indeed received their Message from God.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

There are a lot of people that see the sense in working together on worldwide things like the environment and disarmament as we need all nations to be on board to be able to tackle these problems. Without coming together most of these problems can not be solved alone.

Most of the nations that are not on board are rather extreme in their ideology, unfortunately.

 

[Vinayaka]

That is where verification is needed and it suggested by this post that the Great Beings are the only ones that can demonstrate that they have indeed received their Message from God.

Hindus don't believe that. Every day, half a billion Hindus enter Hindu temples to commune with God. Are we all wrong? We're all being deluded? None of them are particularly concerned about anything being 'verified' as you say.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No it doesn't. It can't include all of them, because many of them contradict each other, as so many people have pointed out to you. Of course all of those people hold incorrect views, according to you. For example, some are highly monistic, whilst others are highly dualistic. Which is it that's right? Some prophets spoke against idol worship, and some didn't. Which is it?

You are again free to post a contradiction direct from the Writings of the Great Beings to supply authority to your view.

This is how we seperate what is Truth from the Great Beings and what is of mans ideas.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

You are again free to post a contradiction direct from the Writings of the Great Beings to supply authority to your view.

I just did. But comparative sites are easy to find. I can find hundreds of differences, but there isn't much point, as you'll just dismiss them all anyway. Here's a scholarly example of what I mean.

8 Differences Between The Buddha and Jesus.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'd have to question whether God really spoke to me at all because it would be inconsistent with Baha'u'llah's Teachings.

I have to poke you on this. Wouldnt you question bahaullah teachings If it opposed to what god told you?

I know this isnt sacred-god-scripture stance but it seems logical to trust scripture based on God's authority rather than God's authority based on scripture. The bible mentions this but no one challenge me if what I read was wrong or is misinterpreted.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hindus don't believe that. Every day, half a billion Hindus enter Hindu temples to commune with God. Are we all wrong? We're all being deluded? None of them are particularly concerned about anything being 'verified' as you say.

God hears all Prayers, no one is saying all are not talking to the same God, we say they are.

It is hearing the reply that becomes that of a choice from self or from God.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes I agree on the last sentence. I don't see any problem quoting from non-Baha'i sites. There are often two perspectives on things. Some of the non-Baha'i stuff is quite reasonable or logical, in my view. I don't think it's fair to label non-Baha'i as necessarily anti-Baha'i.

The last site you quoted from was not fair nor balanced.

New Zealand Cults, Sects, Religions, Christian Organisations, and other groups

It had a clear agenda to label and discredit anything that is not conservative protestant Christianity. Its authors take little care in providing correct information and as I demonstrated just about everything they said about the Baha'i faith was incorrect or a distortion.

Not sure about correcting misunderstandings as much as we would wish. One of the repeated errors I get here and elsewhere, about Hinduism is just misunderstanding its vastness. You will compare Baha'i to Hinduism for example, and a much fairer comparison would be to compare Baha'i with a single school of Hinduism, not Hinduism in it's vast entirety. We have a billion adherents in a vast array of philosophies and schools, at least 100 of them. many being larger in size as Baha'i. The diversity is bewildering to Hindus themselves, let alone outsiders. Baha'i has 5-7 million adherents, one teacher, and basically one ideology. So that in itself is a false comparison, like somehow comparing one village in New Zealand to all of Canada, or India.

Its taken me a while, but I feel I understand the term Hinduism and what it means. I agree that a comparison between the Baha'i faith and Hinduism is highly problematic and largely comparing apples and oranges.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I just did. But comparative sites are easy to find. I can find hundreds of differences, but there isn't much point, as you'll just dismiss them all anyway. Here's a scholarly example of what I mean.

8 Differences Between The Buddha and Jesus.

Man made differences that need to be explored further. Now also do a search for agreements, you will find a list that helps dissolve differences.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's a very large 'if' you started with.

Again, my God doesn't admonish. Our lessons are ours and ours alone. We make mistakes, we hopefully learn. But yes, part of penance that Baha'i' are so against is the individual, feeling guilty for his own stupidity, self-imposing a penance. Not God, but the person. So if I admonish myself and fast for a day it's fine, but if some religious authority supposedly acting for God does it, it's not, because no person has that authority over another person.

We’re supposed to feel guilt and shame at wrong doing. Each day we’re told to bring ourselves to account and meditate on how to improve ourselves and avoid the wrongs we did.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I have to poke you on this. Wouldnt you question bahaullah teachings If it opposed to what god told you?

Please feel free to ask me questions at any time.

If there was a disparity between what I believed God was telling me and what Baha'u'llah taught then that would be a crisis of faith. For example, if I was sure that God said to me, become a Catholic and leave the Baha'i Faith, then I would. However, there is no contradiction between how I experience God and Baha'u'llah's teachings so I am happy in my Faith.

I know this isnt sacred-god-scripture stance but it seems logical to trust scripture based on God's authority rather than God's authority based on scripture. The bible mentions this but no one challenge me if what I read was wrong or is misinterpreted.

It is not one or the other, but both.

I trust scripture based on God's authority and God's authority based on scripture.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Most of the nations that are not on board are rather extreme in their ideology, unfortunately.

Some nations may take longer to mature than others but I believe that the goodness in people will ultimately prevail.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Perhaps, although the situations vary. Some of the 'hardliners' are just finally standing up for rights they've never had, like the right to control the money donated to temples. Can you imagine if every cent you gave to the local Baha'is where you live was actually just taxation to the New Zealand government. I think you'd be a 'hardliner' too. But yes there are some more adamant folks within the Hindutva movement. Still, western press can do a distortion number.

With that line of reasoning it becomes possible to justify and support religious extremism. Religious extremism, as exemplified by some in Hindutva movement, gives Hinduism a bad name as do the extremists of Islam and Christianity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You mean he could change his mind? I don't think Good can change his mid. Do you? He might tell different people different things though, as he's the perfect one on one tutor.


Well, I guess I'm out, because I don't believe in God's messengers, as you know. Lots of folks don't. But yes, I perform acts for God. In Hinduism there is no intermediary between man and God. It's direct.

We don’t really know who’s ‘in or out’. The Christian concept that one is not saved unless they accept Jesus is not our belief.

I may be out and you in. We may both be in or out. But I think one thing that matters a lot to God is that we are friendly and kind to each other despite our different beliefs.

So in that spirit I would like to restate that I enjoy reading your posts and I hope I do learn from you and if you ever visit Australia you are welcome to visit.

 

[Vinayaka]

God hears all Prayers, no one is saying all are not talking to the same God, we say they are.

Could be. Personally, I wouldn't know. I don't have that ability.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am the Way and the Master who watches in silence. Thy Friend, and thy Shelter, and thy Abode of Peace. I am the beginning, and the middle, and the end of all things, their Seed of eternity, their Treasure supreme. – Bhagavad Gita 9:16-18.

From what I think I know Brama doesnt speak. Brahman is all. No dictations; no words. To know what Brahma says dont read: practice. In Buddhism Way means practice. Dont knos hindu but id its similar its not the god of abraham. Using Hindu scriptures, find detailed similarities between Brahman and GOA. What makes their Nzture the same not their overlapping virtues by English names only.

So are Gautama Buddha’s:

This indeed is the Way — there is no other — for the purification of one’s vision. Follow this Way. I have taught you the Way … making the effort is your affair. – Dhammapada vs. 274-276.

The Way means practice not belief. Practice of Dharma, Where does it say god?

And Muhammad’s:

This is the way of thy Lord, leading straight: We have detailed the signs for those who receive admonition. For them will be a home of peace in the presence of their Lord: He will be their friend, because they practised (righteousness). – Qur’an, Surih 6:126-127.
27 Thus, belief in the efficacy of anyone's unqualified intercession with God, or mediation between man and Him, is here equated with a denial of God's omniscience, which takes all the circumstances of the sinner and his sinning a priori into consideration. (As regards God's symbolic grant of permission to His prophets to "intercede" for their followers on the Day of Judgment, see note 7 above.) (Source; bold and underline emphasis ours)

No christ. No bahaullah. No muhammad. Just god. This is a islam view. Straight to god. No equals.


And Baha’u’llah’s:

…He hath manifested unto men the Day Stars of His divine guidance … and hath ordained the knowledge of these sanctified Beings to be identical with the knowledge of His own Self. Whoso recognizeth Them hath recognized God. Whoso hearkeneth unto Their call, hath hearkened unto the voice of God, and whoso testifieth to the truth of Their revelation, hath testified to the truth of God Himself…. Every one of them is the Way of God that connecteth this world with the realms above…. They are the Manifestations of God amidst men, the evidences of His Truth, and the signs of His glory. — Gleanings pp. 49-50.

Way as jesus too says is the only method to god. Bahaullah says directly. Christ does not.

Brahma is not the god of the jews. I read on tbe thread not many hindu "worship" Brahma himself but Brahman through various gods and goddesses. The Buddha used to be hindu. He uses mystical terms butnif you read olded suttas you see the style of writing is different than tbe Dhp. The Dhp. and the Lotus even have different writings than older pali suttas. The change and uncbange means nothing is eternal. No god. No permenece. Physical Dharma decay, The Dharma can and does not.

Bahai has non correlating beliefs. That doesnt depreciate unity just it Must be from others view Not just bahai.

 

[Vinayaka]

The last site you quoted from was not fair nor balanced.

Its taken me a while, but I feel I understand the term Hinduism and what it means. I agree that a comparison between the Baha'i faith and Hinduism is highly problematic and largely comparing apples and oranges.

Yes, I agree, and I apologise. I think the last place to look would be at a hateful site. I didn't really mean it as a valid alternative, just pointing out that there are other opinions out there. Lots of them, some more reasonable than others. I\ll try to be more diligent in my google searching in the future. Were there any sites that I linked to that were more balanced? Hopefully, there were.

 

[Vinayaka]

Man made differences that need to be explored further. Now also do a search for agreements, you will find a list that helps dissolve differences.

Regards Tony

I totally recognise that there are similarities, Tony. I always have. Where we differ is on how important the differences are. I see them as unresolvable, stuck in stone, and I believe you gloss over them indiscriminately. Course I could be wrong.

 

[Vinayaka]

We’re supposed to feel guilt and shame at wrong doing. Each day we’re told to bring ourselves to account and meditate on how to improve ourselves and avoid the wrongs we did.

Hindus, at least in my sect, have methods tried and true to resolve guilt. Just feeling guilty isn't enough. The first step is a heartfelt apology. Then some method to change the behaviour. A good example used in a lot of public places is the 'curse jar'. It works by having a charity box, and if you curse, you have to donate a fixed amount of money. It can clean up the language a pool hall or bar in a short time. So much more than guilt and an apology is required. You need a change of behaviour, else the lesson isn't learned. Course you get to repeat the experience in that case. Experience can be a strict teacher some days.

 

[Vinayaka]

Some nations may take longer to mature than others but I believe that the goodness in people will ultimately prevail.

Maybe maybe not. On an individual level, for sure. But we could also destroy this planet. It's possible, I'm not naive.