Just stay at that lake with Adrian, though. All places have the good, the bad and the ugly.
Has alcoholism become New Zealand's accepted addiction?
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How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Just stay at that lake with Adrian, though. All places have the good, the bad and the ugly.
Has alcoholism become New Zealand's accepted addiction?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Not written by Paul:
Epesians
Colosians
Thess 2
Titus
Timothy 1
Timothy 2
Written by Paul:
Cor 1
Cor 2
Philipians
Hebrews
Thess 1
Romans
Galatians
Philemon
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
That would be me! Yes!
I guess that you wouldn't be allowed or wish to have a joke at the expense of strangers, otherwise you could strike a pose, place hands together as in prayer, bow (as shown in 'carry-on' type films') and use a Kenneth Williams Eastern accent as you replied, 'Tis the Temple of the Great Imam of Shung-Wallah, thankyou kindly!' Occasional passers by might nod their heads in remembrance of the name.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
This is just an indirect mode of addressing to them in these two examples. It is obvious that, the Letter which was sent to Czar Alexander II, was not sent to other kings, neither, these letters could be read by all kings. Bahaullah in these two cases, does not wish to indirectly tell the Czar Alexander II that He will soon die, but rather inform him indirectly so, it would be less disturbing him. Notice that in the beginning of the same letter, Bahaullah speaks somewhat positive about Czar Alexander II:
"We, verily, have heard the thing for which thou didst supplicate thy Lord, whilst secretly communing with Him. Wherefore, the breeze of My loving-kindness wafted forth, and the sea of My mercy surged, and We answered thee in truth."
In the same way, the letter that was sent to Queen, has certain sections that are indeed directed at the Queen, but in the indirect mode of addressing. Again, because the Queen had done well in certain things, which Bahaullah told her, in order to encourage her.
Notice that, if such a statement that Bahaullah wrote in the letter to the Czar Alexander II:
"Soon others will possess them and ye will return unto the dust..." was to be just general, why He does not include the same wordings in the letter He wrote to the Queen? Did He say the same statement in the Letter to the King of Berlin who you say died at age of 90? Notice what Bahaullah wrote to Him in part of the letter: " For the sake of God We, verily, exhort you, and will be patient as We have been patient in that which hath befallen Us"
Consider, that it would have been much easier if Bahaullah Just had written the same letter again and again for each ruler to inform them of His Revelation, and just update the beginning of the letter every time with the name of each ruler. But He did not do that, because He is specific to everyone!
Therefore, although there are certain parts of these Letters appear to be addressing all generally, however, this is just an indirect addressing Mode, which Bahaullah uses in some of parts of the letters. Abdulbaha has also talked about the indirect addressing Mode by Prophets. It is in the Book some answered Questions.
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InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Yes indeed my friend.
If you recall, I had already mentioned to you before that, in the Jewish Traditions as well as Christianity, it was prophesied that the world would be 6 days, each counted 1000 years. Once the sixth Day ends from the Days of Adam, on the seventh Day a new world comes with the coming of the Promised One. The same is mentioned in the Islamic Traditions that the world is like days of a week. When the Bab came He announced that the end of the world has come, and a new cycle began. That was 1844. 23 years later, Bahaullah in akka announced thaf a new Revelation has come. Now think about it. It was prophesied in Islam that when 23 years passed form the end of the sixth thousands year, the Promised one announces that a new Revelation has come. So did it come to pass. Bahaullah was in Akka, and in the year 1867 started announcing to the world. Now, Bahaullah did not get Himself to the Holy Land just exactly the year 1867 to match Himself with the Prophecies, but He was exiled to Akka exactly in 1867, and then He announced. Many things could have happend so this Prophecy fails. He could have been killed on the way or something could have delayed His arrival. Also notice that although it may not be possible to count precisely when 6000 years ends from days of Adams, it is undeniable that, the 2300 days End time Prophecy as well as the 1260 days or years Prophecies in Bible and Islam indeed comes to the year 1844, therefore it is compatible with the Manifestation of the Bab and His announcement. Moreover, in the Islamic Prophecies it was alluded the name of the first Promised one is Ali Muhammad, and the second Promised one is Hussein Ali whose title was also alluded to be Bahaullah. It was also written, He completes His Book when 30 years is passes from the end of sixth thousands. So did it come to pass, Bahaullah completed His Book of Law exactly in the year prophesied.
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Thank you, I would love to partake of Adrian's offer, the world would be a better place if we all made those offers and then partook of them.
The Wisdom of Baha'u'llah as to the requirements of this age are naught but astounding, as you have again shown this for us.
The law for this age is Alcohol is forbidden unless prescribed by a medical doctor.
Australia also has big issues with alcohol, as do many places in the world now.
Hinduism and Alcohol
Stay well, over and out.
Regards from me.
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siti
Well-Known Member
So it is entirely conceivable that Baha'u'llah could have made a mistake in his writings?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I once heard that Q Victoria had made comment about the letter to her, but whether it was a written reply or a third hand hear-say I don't know.
siti
Well-Known Member
So you don't know then! I mean since it is not possible to count precisely from the "days of Adam" to 1844 you have no idea when the "sixth millennium" started or ended? This is quite possibly the most preposterous Baha'i explanation I have seen so far - sixth millennium indeed - what the heck happened to progressive revelation and the adoption of scientific knowledge?
siti
Well-Known Member
What is this "who you say"? Kaiser Wilhelm I died at the age of 90 - that is a matter of historical record. Your reinterpretations of history are more hysterical than historical.
And if you want me to administer the coup de grace to your argument here are Baha'u'llah's further words to Queen Victoria - not to other kings according to your interpretation...
"O ye rulers of the earth! Wherefore have ye clouded the radiance of the Sun, and caused it to cease from shining? Hearken unto the counsel given you by the Pen of the Most High, that haply both ye and the poor may attain unto tranquillity and peace. We beseech God to assist the kings of the earth to establish peace on earth. He, verily, doth what He willeth.
O kings of the earth! We see you increasing every year your expenditures, and laying the burden thereof on your subjects. This, verily, is wholly and grossly unjust. Fear the sighs and tears of this Wronged One, and lay not excessive burdens on your peoples. Do not rob them to rear palaces for yourselves; nay rather choose for them that which ye choose for yourselves. Thus We unfold to your eyes that which profiteth you, if ye but perceive. Your people are your treasures. Beware lest your rule violate the commandments of God, and ye deliver your wards to the hands of the robber. By them ye rule, by their means ye subsist, by their aid ye conquer. Yet, how disdainfully ye look upon them! How strange, how very strange!
Now that ye have refused the Most Great Peace, hold ye fast unto this, the Lesser Peace, that haply ye may in some degree better your own condition and that of your dependents.
O rulers of the earth! Be reconciled among yourselves, that ye may need no more armaments save in a measure to safeguard your territories and dominions. Beware lest ye disregard the counsel of the All-Knowing, the Faithful.
Be united, O kings of the earth, for thereby will the tempest of discord be stilled amongst you, and your peoples find rest, if ye be of them that comprehend. Should any one among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice. Thus did We exhort you in the Tablet sent down aforetime, and We admonish you once again to follow that which hath been revealed by Him Who is the Almighty, the All-Wise. Should anyone seek refuge with you, extend unto him your protection and betray him not. Thus doth the Pen of the Most High counsel you, as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Informed.
Beware lest ye act as did the King of Islám when We came unto him at his bidding. His ministers pronounced judgement against Us with such injustice that all creation lamented and the hearts of those who are nigh unto God were consumed. The winds of self and passion move them as they will, and We found them all bereft of constancy. They are, indeed, of those that are far astray."
And we all know what happened to the "King of Islam" aka the Sultan Abdul Aziz don't we!
So your argument that Queen Victoria's letter was positive and prophesied the continuation of her kingdom fails miserably. If you take it the same way you are taking the Czar's letter, there is both commendation and condemnation in both. And Queen Victoria stood to suffer a fate every bit as ignominious as the Sultan of Turkey and the Czar of Russia if she disregarded the counsel of Baha'u'llah. She did disregard it - she did not suffer the immediate penalty. Neither did the King of Berlin, Emperor Franz Josef or the Pope.
Quite frankly, I think this whole prophecy thing is clutching at straws to shore up an outmoded faith that can no longer be sustained in the light of scientific discoveries and the unfolding of 20th and 21st century human history.
I do believe that Baha'u'llah wrote some incredibly sensible counsel to those Kings - especially about democracy and the profligacy of warfare - but these were neither new ideas (revelations) nor prophecies. If you take out the supernatural rubbish and admit that the religion is syncretic you have a reasonable set of principles on which to build a 21st century religion. But you would have to admit that Baha'u'llah was, at best, a wise man and that his thoughts are part of the progressive 'revelation' of human, not divine, wisdom. But you tarnish both the religion and the humanness of its origins in your desperation to bolster your founder's reputation with spurious claims of prophecy fulfilled. He didn't even write them as prophecy as far as I can tell, just counsel and warnings that were almost universally ignored.
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We have many beautiful mountain lakes here in Canada too.
My grandfather was an alcoholic as was my father-in-law. Hardly anyone is immune from some sad connection to it. India is about 40 years behind the west. In rural areas there are occasional sleazy bars where only the low go. No women, or respectable men. It stays hidden, and there is a lot of very poor strong moonshine verging on poison. In more urban areas like Mumbai its more popular with the young crowd who think it's cool to take on 'western' culture. The government needs to step in early with loads of hard education.
Moral and political corruption were two main reasons, identical to today’s world in many ways. Excessive military spending and taxes and failing economies all the signs of today’s world which you claim is a form of Utopia. I beg to differ and I trust time will vindicate my argument that we are on the verge of collapse and Baha’u’llah appeared at the right time with the right solution - an entirely new world order.
For me it’s all about a better world. Regardless of Who people believe Baha’u’llah to be I believe humanity stands to gain immensely from His Counsel. All He’s appealing for us to do is to become as one family, stop warring, help the poor and unlearn our prejudices of race, religion and nationality.
But He’s also making the statement that the world cannot truly change without a change of system from the current greed motivated one to a spiritually motivated one. I think He makes a lot of sense there and is not just talking pie in the sky.
Politics is so corrupt today it can never be fixed. We simply need to build a new system based upon humanitarian va.ues, spiritual and moral values and one in which people come first. Do you really think this system is not just to benefit the rich and powerful? There’s enough money on the planet to give everyone a job and free Medicare and education but they spend trillions on war and military budgets.
Baha’u’llah is just pointing out these injustices and appealing to people to unite to get rid of this unjust system by building a new one so people can live better lives, be happier and develop spiritually.
siti
Well-Known Member
So not specific prophecies then?
He gave warnings about their fate but the most important thing is why? He wanted them to stop oppressing their people, over taxing them and sending them to war and thus impoverishing them. He wanted all humans to be treated with dignity and respect not as slaves.
siti
Well-Known Member
He did - and not one of the rulers he addressed directly paid any attention whatsoever. So why do Baha'is interpret these general warnings and admonition about appropriate rulership as specific prophecies about the demise of one kingdom and the continuation of another?
Love too, I liked teaching golf. its 40 deg where those roos are jumping
Sounds tough. We had 30 deg here on Saturday and were struggling with the heat. Its down to 16 deg today which is more like it.
Baha'i summer school is near Christchurch 3rd to 8th January with retired Universal House of Justice member Mr Kiser Barnes and his wife Mrs Nancy Barnes joining us as Keynote speakers along with local artist Dame Robin White.
We have a semi independent downstairs unit. Bring your wife.
Direct flights available from Brisbane to Dunedin
Almost as nice as Australia!
You should come over and show me how to play golf.
Or bring @loverofhumanity over with you.
I reply to no one on particular but give a thought.
When Baha'u'llah wrote those letters they were used to reject Baha'u'llah, in fact some used then as a test of Faith. If they came true they would accept Baha'u'llah. Most used them to show what was foretold had not happened.
In the eyes of that time these events happened and the few that made it a test of faith accepted the Faith. Others remained silent and others found other avenues of dispute. What they did not do was to dispute the foresight.
Then 140 years later people with eyes in modern world far removed from the events of that time and the channels of available communication, use the same Prophecy in the same manner. Thinking that now they have all information at a touch of a button, that all that information was just as available in the 1800's.
How blind we become and how relevent this passage;
CVI: The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger…
"The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.
We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy."
This age needs us to find urgent Unity.
Regards to all Tony
When Baha'u'llah wrote those letters they were used to reject Baha'u'llah, in fact some used then as a test of Faith. If they came true they would accept Baha'u'llah. Most used them to show what was foretold had not happened.
In the eyes of that time these events happened and the few that made it a test of faith accepted the Faith. Others remained silent and others found other avenues of dispute. What they did not do was to dispute the foresight.
Then 140 years later people with eyes in modern world far removed from the events of that time and the channels of available communication, use the same Prophecy in the same manner. Thinking that now they have all information at a touch of a button, that all that information was just as available in the 1800's.
How blind we become and how relevent this passage;
CVI: The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger…
"The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.
We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy."
This age needs us to find urgent Unity.
Regards to all Tony