How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony. If Catholics pray to statues, they are praying to a block of cement. I have never heard a catholic pray to cement statue. They pray to Who that statue represents.

Since its symbolism, how is the catholic wrong?

Asusuming you think it is since I dont know your position of the matter.

A Catholic would be wrong if they did not beleive in God and His laws and put them into practice for the dispensation of Christ. They are a given to prepare them for Christs Return. What we have to understand here is that this acceptance and belief is timeless. A person that embraced Christ through baptisim and practice, in lets say in AD100, would share in the day of Christs Return. There is no seperation for them. They in Spirit also are raised up in those last days and partake of Gods Promise.

Romans 6:3-4"Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life."

1 Peter 3:21"Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

A Catholic is thus wrong if they partook of all the rituals but failed to embrace Christ upon His return in the "Glory of the Father".

That is Baha'u'llah and it is Baha'u'llah that has said those Symbols are no longer needed.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

A Catholic would be wrong if they did not beleive in God and His laws and put them into practice for the dispensation of Christ. They are a given to prepare them for Christs Return. What we have to understand here is that this acceptance and belief is timeless. A person that embraced Christ through baptisim and practice, in lets say in AD100, would share in the day of Christs Return. There is no seperation for them. They in Spirit also are raised up in those last days and partake of Gods Promise.

Romans 6:3-4"Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life."

1 Peter 3:21"Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

A Catholic is thus wrong if they partook of all the rituals but failed to embrace Christ upon His return in the "Glory of the Father".

That is Baha'u'llah and it is Baha'u'llah that has said those Symbols are no longer needed.

Regards Tony

I just thought. You see differences as negative. You find agreement in everything. But you say some christians are wrong when they dont follow how your faith defines their religion.

I dont mind differences. Deciding who is right and wrong is immoral. Thats not a peaceful religion.

Where is the peace in finding agreement while calling christians wrong at the same time?

Not a rethorical question.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I just thought. You see differences as negative. You find agreement in everything. But you say some christians are wrong when they dont follow how your faith defines their religion.

I dont mind differences. Deciding who is right and wrong is immoral. Thats not a peaceful religion.

Where is the peace in finding agreement while calling christians wrong at the same time?

Not a rethorical question.

Peace is in our hearts and practice and non compulsory offerings Carlita. (In that order as well)

As to Truth it finds its own way. We do not own it, we can just embrace it in our given frame of reference.

Now if Baha'u'llah is who He claims to be and what He offered is what the world needs, what could/would you do and say to others?

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha’u’llah teaches we are all one human family despite our beliefs. He says we are the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one branch.

So leaving theological debates aside for a moment, all people whether catholic, Protestant or no religion we consider our brothers and sisters - unconditionally.

Yes we come here and debate this and debate that but people in real life come first. I don’t see us as anything but one drop in an ocean of beautiful human beings including everyone here.

It’s just a debating forum so we debate but you are all precious because you are human. That’s the real bottom line.

We are learning to try and appreciate all humanity, to be prejudice free. We Baha’is are far from being free from prejudice and bias.

But by coming here it often forces us to confront our own weaknesses and try and deal with them. So it doesn’t matter what you or anyone believe or don’t believe. We must learn to welcome and see you as part of one human family unconditionally. Sounds nice but far from easy.

Yeah, that's fine we're all one and everything is all lovey dovey. But God's guidance couldn't have been all that good if it is so easily misunderstood. Protestants had a chance to revamp Christianity. They claim they are following the teachings of the New Testament, but they still got it wrong.

Now Baha'is claim that Islam did bring an updated version of God's word. What corrections did they make to Christianity?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But you say some christians are wrong when they dont follow how your faith defines their religion.

The important thing here is that is not I that has said this.

I make no judgment as to any other peraons heart in their Faith.

This is the domain of the Great Beings, it is they that say what is Truth and what is not and they give judgement.

It is our acceptance or rejection of those Messages that determines this matter.

I play no part in this process but to learn, live and share what I have found.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Now Baha'is claim that Islam did bring an updated version of God's word. What corrections did they make to Christianity?

Most important one is that there is Only One God and Jesus the Christ was His Messenger.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Peace is in our hearts and practice and non compulsory offerings Carlita. (In that order as well

How is it peace to say you differences are negative but some christians are wrong for not following their faith correct as defined by bahaullah?

Now if Baha'u'llah is who He claims to be and what He offered is what the world needs, what could/would you do and say to others?

I disagree with Bahallah as a great being. Many people have "written" claims. The Buddha included. Unlike abrahamic god-religions, I see truth in The Dharma. I dont evangalize. If someone wants to know my faith like Adrian, for example, we discuss differences in boyh of our religions. Thats peace.

I see no peace in offers.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The important thing here is that is not I that has said this.

I make no judgment as to any other peraons heart in their Faith.

This is the domain of the Great Beings, it is they that say what is Truth and what is not and they give judgement.

It is our acceptance or rejection of those Messages that determines this matter.

I play no part in this process but to learn, live and share what I have found.

Regards Tony

Realy, tony?

A Catholic is thus wrong if they partook of all the rituals but failed to embrace Christ upon His return in the "Glory of the Father".

How do you bring peace and agreement by telling others they are wrong?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Realy, tony? How do you bring peace and agreement by telling others they are wrong?

How have both Christianity and Muslims made great Nations? Both Messages pointed to how previous followers had missunderstood the intent of their Holy Books. Yet growth happened, people united under Faith in Gods Messenger.

I say again and again, It is not I that has told them. I am one of them, I a human as you are and I only share a Message, the Message is applicable to me.

When times get tough, Hearts are inspired towards God and His ways. What God has offered is a chance to change without the destruction brought about by rejection of Gods Wisdom and Laws.

So how will Peace come? What I choose is Baha'u'llahs advice in my life, with that advice I am peaceful and loving of and to all Humanity.

How about you, does your peace choices embrace all? If so great, there we have it and now each person can answer that for themselves.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How have both Christianity and Muslims made great Nations? Both Messages pointed to how previous followers had missunderstood the intent of their Holy Books. Yet growth happened, people united under Faith in Gods Messenger.

I say again and again, It is not I that has told them. I am one of them, I a human as you are and I only share a Message, the Message is applicable to me.

When times get tough, Hearts are inspired towards God and His ways. What God has offered is a chance to change without the destruction brought about by rejection of Gods Wisdom and Laws.

So how will Peace come? What I choose is Baha'u'llahs advice in my life, with that advice I am peaceful and loving of and to all Humanity.

How about you, does your peace choices embrace all? If so great, there we have it and now each person can answer that for themselves.

Regards Tony

You are missing it. I do not believe a god exist. I cannot understand you when you use god as answers to questions I am asking you.

You have to explain why you judge. If you are saying god judges (says christians are wrong) why would Anyone would want to believe a god like that?

Who is judging you or god? Why?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How do you bring peace and agreement by telling others they are wrong?

You keep saying this after asking for an example, then I give you an example based on the Message of just one Great Being, it could be any of them.

I hope this is now clear. I pass on their Messages, it is not me saying Humanity has got it wrong. When the Great Beings give this Message, it is the cause of change and fellowship, in a common cause.

I am also part of Humanity, thus I can choose to see this is correct, change my ways, or not.

What ia offered now is the foundation that will build a lasting unity of Humanity. It will happen with or witbout me, I bring not a thing, but I can let the unconstrained guide my actions.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You are missing it. I do not believe a god exist. I cannot understand you when you use god as answers to questions I am asking you.

You have to explain why you judge. If you are saying god judges (says christians are wrong) why would Anyone would want to believe a god like that?

Who is judging you or god? Why?

Then that is where we should leave it Carlita.

Regards Tony

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Carlita I'm not sure I entirely agree if what you're suggesting is that the Buddha didn't teach certain views and practices are not good. I think that's not what you mean? The Buddha taught things done out of belief can still be wrong, like cruelty and hatred. Even a Buddhist that does these things has departed from the Blessed One, as the Vinaya says. Even if they say they're a Buddhist.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Carlita I'm not sure I entirely agree if what you're suggesting is that the Buddha didn't teach certain views and practices are not good. I think that's not what you mean? The Buddha taught things done out of belief can still be wrong, like cruelty and hatred. Even a Buddhist that does these things has departed from the Blessed One, as the Vinaya says. Even if they say they're a Buddhist.

Thank you for that clarification.

Personally I think this is our greatest test of self.

What actually is the teaching and how should it be practiced in our lives.

We all face these decisions no matter our Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Then that is where we should leave it Carlita.

Regards Tony

Its you that is making the offer. If you cant be an intermediary to speak from god, how do you tell people about god?

When jesus came he didnt just offer and say "take it or leave it." He talked. Discussed. Explained. Clarified-a lot! His disciples werent so smart at spiritual language. He did rituals to show physically spiritual truths.

The Buddha said we save ourselves.

Muhammad says there is no intemediary to god. You go straight to god. He is "just" a messanger.

Do you follow these people's examples?

Its depressing when you say you cant speak for yourself when these great beings spoke for themselves because their knowledge was not separate from god.

In the last hundred of years, when did people get dumb that they stopped being great beings?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yeah, that's fine we're all one and everything is all lovey dovey. But God's guidance couldn't have been all that good if it is so easily misunderstood. Protestants had a chance to revamp Christianity. They claim they are following the teachings of the New Testament, but they still got it wrong.

Now Baha'is claim that Islam did bring an updated version of God's word. What corrections did they make to Christianity?

My understanding is God’s religions have always centered around good character, good morals, virtues and love and unity between people as well as justice in human affairs.

Whenever religion has departed from these essentials, God sends another Messenger to foster the reestablishment of these principles of religion.

So the religion of God is always renewed in order to renew love and harmony.

Or I suppose God could have made us mindless loving zombies without the ability to choose or make decisions for ourselves. So we wouldn’t have emotions but just be robots and be incapable of wrong doing.

He could also have made us all perfect. No illness. No death. No wars. Plenty of food and luxuries. Like gods. Maybe He’s doing that but over time and after much evolution we become that way. We on earth are only at the beginning of our journey.

Maybe we obtain powers similar to God when we learn to be like Him?

“ “O My Servant! Obey Me and I shall make thee like unto Myself. I say ‘Be,’ and it is, and thou shalt say ‘Be,’ and it shall be.”

The Seven Valleys, The Four Valleys
Bahá’u’lláh

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Its you that is making the offer. If you cant be an intermediary to speak from god, how do you tell people about god?

The Car yard around the corner has a 2018 Jeep for $1000, if you are looking for a car it is a great deal. It is Not me offering the car. I point you to the salesman because, I took down His Number from the notice to tell people who may be interested. All I offer is a link to the Salesman if you are interested.

Baha'u'llah gave a Message, its the best deal available, so I took down the details in case others wanted to know. Now I tell people. Baha'u'llah has a great deal if you are interested.

When jesus came he didnt just offer and say "take it or leave it." He talked. Discussed. Explained. Clarified-a lot! His disciples werent so smart at spiritual language. He did rituals to show physically spiritual truths.

As did Baha'u'llah for over 40 years, His Disciples had the same problem grasping the significance of a Universal Message. I also have that problem many times magnified, but I can point you that way, you potentially have a greater capacity.

In the last hundred of years, when did people get dumb that they stopped being great beings?

We are Human, we are not Great Beings, they are Given from God, of the Holy Spirit. As you do not believe in God, you may think us mere mortals can be great beings. We can not and never will be, our greatest potential is servitude in the Love and Knowledge of God.

Our greatest potential is being as Abdul'baha was.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When I speak to you, you represent Bahaullah. I cant speak to Bahaullah. He passed away. I cant speak to god. He doesnt exist.

The Car yard around the corner has a 2018 Jeep for $1000, if you are looking for a car it is a great deal. It is Not me offering the car. I point you to the salesman because, I took down His Number from the notice to tell people who may be interested. All I offer is

If you sell a car for the car company Ford Motors, you are representing their business as an employee. You dont take credit of the company's benefits just your own profits.

If you are an attorney, you represent the law. If Im the accused and ask you for legal advice, Id expect you to know the law not send me tp the judge. If you dont know nor practice law, why would I trust you to tell me the law (not your law, the law county)

I am not a sacred book person. If I cannot trust you, why would I trust the person your offers speak of? If you dont know the law, why would I speak to you about it. Telling me the law doesnt mean you practice it. Practicing it lets me know you know what you are talking about.

Baha'u'llah gave a Message, its the best deal available, so I took down the details in case others wanted to know. Now I tell people. Baha'u'llah has a great deal if you are interested.

Bahallauh died. I dont learn and trust from whats written. Why should I trust you, a person flesh and blood that what you give is correct when you dont tell me your credientials in your expertise just offering plamplets on the matter?

As did Baha'u'llah for over 40 years, His Disciples had the same problem grasping the significance of a Universal Message. I also have that problem many times magnified, but I can point y

But you trust someone who died. So you need another approach to those of us who know by example of the living not writings of someone who died. If you dont know how can we?

We are Human, we are not Great Beings, they are Given from God, of the Holy Spirit. As you do not believe in God, you may think us mere mortals can be great beings. We can not and never will be, our greatest potential

This thread is to talk about that. We talk about both views. Not just bahai. If thats the case, sell the car among your own employees. If you really want to reach out to a client you have to change your approach to match the customers needs.

The Buddha compromised his own beliefs (he didnt talkna out himself above others; no pride) for the benefit of others. He didnt make himself proud but downgraded himself for others. He could never be a sellsman. He would be too busy asking the client about the clients opinion about the car-its about the client not the salesman nor the company. Business cant make money if the salesman gives papers and pamphlets but when the client asks questions and clarifications you tell them to go to your boss.

Why work commission? It doesnt work unless you trust yourself that your clarifications in your own words represent your company's.

You are human just as your client; this builds better relations. If we cant trust you, we cant trust your comany.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Car yard around the corner has a 2018 Jeep for $1000, if you are looking for a car it is a great deal. It is Not me offering the car. I point you to the salesman because, I took down His Number from the notice to tell people who may be interested. All I offer is a link to the Salesman if you are interested.

Baha'u'llah gave a Message, its the best deal available, so I took down the details in case others wanted to know. Now I tell people. Baha'u'llah has a great deal if you are interested.



As did Baha'u'llah for over 40 years, His Disciples had the same problem grasping the significance of a Universal Message. I also have that problem many times magnified, but I can point you that way, you potentially have a greater capacity.



We are Human, we are not Great Beings, they are Given from God, of the Holy Spirit. As you do not believe in God, you may think us mere mortals can be great beings. We can not and never will be, our greatest potential is servitude in the Love and Knowledge of God.

Our greatest potential is being as Abdul'baha was.

Regards Tony

Great and appropriate analogy. A 2018 Jeep for a $1000? And we're going to trust that salesman? What's the catch? Same with the Baha'i Faith, can we trust the salesman? Baha'is make everything sound simple and easy. Yes, all religions are one if we reject the religious teachings from the past that taught differences.

So how is the Baha'i car running? A lot of us have seen local Baha'i Communities in action. It's far from perfect. Inactive members. Years of Baha'i fireside talks with very few "seekers". I was there in the 70's when they tried mass teaching techniques. Going door to door and inviting people to a meeting to hear the message. What happened? Isn't there something about entry by troops? It's been almost 50 years. The Baha'i Faith is still struggling along trying to get members, and to keep members.

Is the Baha'i Faith a clunker or a finely tuned machine?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

When I speak to you, you represent Bahaullah. I cant speak to Bahaullah. He passed away. I cant speak to god. He doesnt exist.

Sorry you are mistaken about God.

Meditate and talk to ones own self to find all that is good and you talk to God.

Baha'u'llah is your true self, if He did not exist, you are not here. When you draw on all that is good in you, you ask that of Baha'u'llah. (All Great Beings)

To deny God is to deny we live.

Yes, you have that choice and we are dead without God.

If you sell a car for the car company Ford Motors, you are representing their business as an employee. You dont take credit of the company's benefits just your own profits.

It is not me selling the car. Baha'u'llah is Gods Representative.

They stand on their own Merritts, they do not need people that do not want to choose what is on offer.

Again I am not part of that company, I have no shares. I am but a happy customer.

They give amazing bonuses with their cars.

I am not a sacred book person. If I cannot trust you, why would I trust the person your offers speak of?

I did not ask you and would never ask you to trust me, I only offered you a chance to look for yourself.

If you really want to reach out to a client you have to change your approach to match the customers needs.

They only want people that choose to buy, a customer who is prepared to really look after what they brought.

So they put the best of cars on display with no price tags. We then find, if we do choose to look, they are actually given away at no cost. Still people choose not to look at them, convinced there is some catch or dishonesy happening.

Then there are some that drive away and do not look after what they were given.

I am happy with mine, need to look after it a lot better.

As I said, your choice if you want to look.

Why work commission? It doesnt work unless you trust yourself that your clarifications in your own words represent your company's.

You are human just as your client; this builds better relations. If we cant trust you, we cant trust your comany.

Sounds like you do not want a perfect free car, no worries just thought I would let you know.

Thus I wish you well and leave it at that. It was great to meet you.......If in the future you see me around and want directions or number of that place, still happy to provide. Or you may stumble upon it yourself.

Speeds off happy in what I got Farewell from Tony