How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

You seem to kept going with your points where you didnt need to. Im very simple.

You’re still dodging the issue which is Jesus said He would come with a new name. It’s there in black and white and is a part of the Bible. You’re not giving it any consideration at al

Of course not. I was referring to calling other people scriptures false. I tried reading revelations twice but no luck. I just know no one else is in it but christ. (As so says. Christians are mixed in their views as do bahai. No one is special)

What is ‘true Christianity’ as there is not one united Christian religion? There are no Christian teachings I believe in that are not in the Bible but there are heaps of things Christia

Trinity is in the bible.

True christianity? I never heard such thing. Many interpretations: bahai included. (And muslims, and...)

The Bible is interpreted by Christian leaders to try and assert they they are superior to other religions. Baha’u’llah interprets it to say all religions are from God and equal wi

Yes. I go with the Chuch. They have the upperhand of this conversation.

This exclusivity and superiority is what has led to wars and conflicts. The Bible is not superior to the Quran or any other Holy Book it’s just that people’s egos want to be exalted so they interpret superiority into every passage wherever possible.

Yes. Calling faults in scripture and insulting me below is not part of world peace, right?

If I was at peace with myself and others I would have no need to feel superior. People who clamor for superiority and t

Their peace has nothing to do with you. No savior. Their actions-their peace. Your actions, your peace. The best we can do is we encourage each other in Their and they ours so we wont be stepping on peaces toes.

This insecurity of Christians that feel they must interpret everything so as to say they are superio

Same with this post. No one is special.

No

The reason people can’t accept the truth in all Faiths is because of inner insecurity. There is no harm in accepting the truth of Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna or Baha’u’llah yet although They all teach truth,

Okay. Ima ask this again: Whag am I doing and following about my faith that is false?

That tells us that it’s peoples egos that are at work. People don’t want to accept truth, they want to feel special and unique and superior to others. Again the ego.

Bad way to promote peace. People DO accept the truth just not yours: diversity right?

It’s ego and nothing else that stops us from accepting each other’s religion for it is the ego which always wants to argue and say that the truth only exists in one religion, of course the religion that person chooses.

Yes.ego. I see it in this post. No one is special.

Truth is one in all religions and people don’t want to accept that and unite because that sort of concept doesn’t feed the ego which

Shakes her head. Different definition of diversity based on your comments abovem they contradict this statement.

You look at the closed mindedness. Buddhists refuse to accept even the possibility Buddha taught about God. Yet there are statements by Buddha to the contrary. Why the closed mindedness? Because then they can feel they are superior to others especially Abrahamic religions. The ego hates humility and bowing down before an invisible God means one must be very humble. Easy to bow before a statue one can see but it requires true humility to form so

LOL ego? Ill come back to this. Gotta sleep on the bus beford I get to class. Bad night.

With Christians it’s Christ is the only Prophet to physically rise from the dead. Again so they can feel superior and above the rest. Where is open mindedness or even the acceptance of science that maybe it wasn’t a physical ressurection? Just like the world is flat, you can’t tell them physical bodies don’t come alive. So they say they are superior because no other religions Prophet physically rose from the dead

The sorry and sad state of Christians that they cling to such outlandish superstitions against scuentufic face just to feel superior over others. Where is unity and love? They are not interested. Only in feeling superior to others. That’s not true religion yet Christians deny the truth in

No peace in this...

Islam and Muhammad being the last Prophet is another lie. Yet nowhere in the Quran does it ever state that Muhammad is the last Prophet forever. Yet they add the forever. meaning to it do they can claim they are the only truth and all others infidels.

Peace?

Muhammad could have been the last Prophet of the Adamic Cycle or the last Orophet before the Day of Ressurection so why do they cling to the last Prophet forever idea? Because it aooeases the egos desire for superiority and exclusiveness. Where is unity and love and

People object and argue this is that religion is wrong and we are right but which of them teaches all religions are true and tries to br

Peace?

Claims of exclusivity and superiority are baseless and pure nonsense and any interpretations which divide us are false and man made.

Peace?

All these religions in their current form as opposed to their original form, masquerade as being the sole truth yet they all condemn each

Judging peoples truths off of what people do in general? Generalizations are the mother of all evils.

Just what kind of religion exists today where there is no tolerance, no compromise, no unity?

All of them. Focus on the truths of religons (diversity?) Not the faults of Some of its practitoners.

There is truth in all religions. All religions come from the same source. It was never ever intended that each religion establish its own fiefdom and oppose the others, fight wars and kill one another get that’s what’s happened. Refer to history.

All? Non revealed included?

This is a result of the ego not truth. It’s just so sad that all we are trying to do is say ‘our truth is superior and only ours is truth’.

No one is special. This post screams "Im Right and they are wrong." Then accept diversity? De ja vu

This is a result of the ego not truth. It’s just so sad that all we are trying to do is say ‘our truth

I know (looks around and coughs)

To appease the egotistical pursuit of superiority world peace and world unity have been sacrificed. If we dropped our superiorit

Hmm. How do WE start? Not you. Not they. We

When are we going to stop following our egos and accept all religions not just our own for the good of humanity and once and f

It starts with one person: you

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This post and this:

God does not come to the aid of or protect the church from its child sexual abuses.

Saying this, Is Exactly why there is no peace.

Bias, pointing fingers, blame does nothing. Im sorry youre experience in the church made you have these views. Many catholics left there faith because of thjs and other catholics (people) nonsense.

I still go with the church and christians. Its Not my faith and its not yours. (Youre not part of the body of christ; you left the church)

If you want to have peace, drop the bias.

It starts with you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita. After looking at many aspects of this subject, I decided not to go to deep into this. Mainly because of the question you asked and current time restraints;

You asked, "What message will Maitreya bring that is different than his master's?

Baha'u'llah has brought that Message. The Buddha and Baha'u'llah are One they are not masters of each other or any other Great Being.

I see so much written that was most likely not from the Buddha, so I feel it is not just and appropriate for me to keep bringing this material up.

What I will post is thoughts that allow for the eternal to be considered, which would find support in the writings of all the Great Beings;

"...When one has comprehended the origin and destruction of the elements of the body, one finds happiness and joy which belong to those who know the eternal...." (Buddhist : Dhammapada - Sayings of the Buddha 2 (tr. J. Richards))

"....The one I call holy speaks true words that are useful and not harsh so that no one is offended. The one I call holy does not take anything in the world that is not given one, be it long or short, small or large, good or bad. The one I call holy has no desires for this world or the next, is free from desires and is independent. The one I call holy has no longings, in knowledge is free from doubt, and has reached the depth of the eternal. The one I call holy here has passed beyond the attachments of good and bad, is free from sorrow, free from desire, free from impurity...." (Buddhist : Dhammapada - Sayings of the Buddha 2 (tr. J. Richards))

Those two quotes are compatible with all the Great Beings and support the Eternal Spiritual Journey in the many worlds of God over the limited Material existence on this earth.

Regards Tony

I cant have a one sided conversation. Adrian comes here less than you and we still maintain an two sided conversation. If you dont want to deviat and talk about the buddha too, this isnt a convo just telling me what bahai believes.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita. After looking at many aspects of this subject, I decided not to go to deep into this.

Id like to talk about sides: both from the suttas, sutras, and from bahaullahs works. Nothing onesided.

Baha'u'llah has brought that Message. The Buddha and Baha'u'llah are One they are not masters of each other or any other Great Being.

Baha'u'llah has brought that Message. The Buddha and Baha'u'llah are One they are not masters of each other or any other Great Being.

I see so much written that was most likely not from the Buddha, so I feel it is not just and appropriate for me to keep bringing this material up.

You have to look more into The Buddha's history. I linked a good one hour video to Adrian if you have time to see it. Its a documentary of what historical findings from the historical buddha Sidhartha Guatama.

None of the suttas and suttas are written by The Buddha: Its not a prophet faith. You are more likely agreeing with his disciples and commentaries more so than The Buddha directly. No holy spirjt involved.

"...When one has comprehended the origin and destruction of the elements of the body, one finds happiness and joy which belong to those who know the eternal...." (Buddhist : Dhammapada - Sayings of the Buddha 2 (tr. J. Richards))

What does eternal mean to you from a sutta (or sutra) view?

Can you analyze what the suttas/sutras mean with your quotes??

I mean, I read the suttas daily as with my prayers. But Id have to know if you want to converse about it or copy and paste quotes that when I talk about it you disregard.

Time isnt an issue for online convo. You dont have to post right away. When I do Im usually in transition like now Im at the coffee shop out of the cold. Other times Im multitasking. So it depends.

Indepth conversations take time. If we are brushing the surface, what Do you want to talk about that you can learn from without it needing to relate to your own beliefs??

 

[loverofhumanity]

You seem to kept going with your points where you didnt need to. Im very simple.


Of course not. I was referring to calling other people scriptures false. I tried reading revelations twice but no luck. I just know no one else is in it but christ. (As so says. Christians are mixed in their views as do bahai. No one is special)



Trinity is in the bible.

True christianity? I never heard such thing. Many interpretations: bahai included. (And muslims, and...)



Yes. I go with the Chuch. They have the upperhand of this conversation.



Yes. Calling faults in scripture and insulting me below is not part of world peace, right?



Their peace has nothing to do with you. No savior. Their actions-their peace. Your actions, your peace. The best we can do is we encourage each other in Their and they ours so we wont be stepping on peaces toes.



Same with this post. No one is special.





Okay. Ima ask this again: Whag am I doing and following about my faith that is false?


Bad way to promote peace. People DO accept the truth just not yours: diversity right?


Yes.ego. I see it in this post. No one is special.



Shakes her head. Different definition of diversity based on your comments abovem they contradict this statement.



LOL ego? Ill come back to this. Gotta sleep on the bus beford I get to class. Bad night.





No peace in this...


Peace?



Peace?

Peace?

Judging peoples truths off of what people do in general? Generalizations are the mother of all evils.


All of them. Focus on the truths of religons (diversity?) Not the faults of Some of its practitoners.



All? Non revealed included?


No one is special. This post screams "Im Right and they are wrong." Then accept diversity? De ja vu



I know (looks around and coughs)


Hmm. How do WE start? Not you. Not they. We

It starts with one person: you

Why don’t we all accept the truth in all religions? We can accept our truth as well as others. Truth is one and no one truth can contradict another truth. By truth I don’t mean every person’s opinion but the things we have in common.

What harm is there in accepting them? If we really want peace then what’s wrong with accepting the truth in each other’s Faith?

To reconcile our differences we need to look at what we have in common.

We can build bridges between Faiths through things we have in common. The religions of the world have a lot in common that they can unite around.

We need to come together is a spirit of compassion for humanity and leave our differences behind uniting with what we have in common.

Our differences should not prevent us from uniting. We are all bound to think differently but that should not stop us from coming together to establish world peace and unity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This post and this:


Saying this, Is Exactly why there is no peace.

Bias, pointing fingers, blame does nothing. Im sorry youre experience in the church made you have these views. Many catholics left there faith because of thjs and other catholics (people) nonsense.

I still go with the church and christians. Its Not my faith and its not yours. (Youre not part of the body of christ; you left the church)

If you want to have peace, drop the bias.

It starts with you.

Today more than ever we need spiritual guidance. It’s of the utmost importance that trustees of that guidance are worthy of the trust placed in them. That’s all I meant.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Let me give you example. Okay, you have three religions: Religion A (RA...), religion B, and religion C. They are all different. A is monotheist B is poly theist C is atheist

Why don’t we all accept the truth in all religions? We can accept our truth as well as others. Truth is one and no one truth can contradict another truth. By truth I don’t mean every person’s opinion but the things we have in common.

Truth to A-is one god
Truth to B-is many gods
Truth to C-is no gods

Truths of them all? They are all letters of the alphabet? That's just saying their nature not their beliefs nor their virtues.

Okay, let's say A believes in love
B believes in compassion
C believes in empathy

Of course, they all have virtues in common, But

A believes love comes from one god
B believes compassion comes from more than one god
C believes that empathy has no god

What do they have in common by foundation not by virtues?​

We can still come together as one, but AB and C has to agree on the foundations. For example, B and C can display love but what their love is based on is totally totally different. When A (whoever) says that BC has it wrong, the contradiction is they believe in compassion and empathy from all three of you but then devalue and belittle the foundations of these virtues which are more important to BC than the virtues coming from them.

What harm is there in accepting them? If we really want peace then what’s wrong with accepting the truth in each other’s Faith?

So, monotheist A (fill in the blank) wants everyone to be one. Polytheist B wants everyone to choose the truth best for them because they believe in many truths-hence poly not just one. Person C (for sake of example), does not see truth by deities so whatever A and B believes doesn't bother him.

ABC can accept each other. That is fine. Unfortunately, A wants everyone to be like them in foundation while C doesn't care. Similar foundations: love, compassion, and empathy, different foundations god, gods, and no god.

Monotheist A cannot change the foundations of polytheist and atheist just so they be saved, follow a prophet, I don't know, be one with nature as god. They can only come together by their virtues.

To reconcile our differences we need to look at what we have in common.

Differences equals diversity

Monotheist A can't say everyone will saved but then say B and C are will die if they are not. Yes, they can share the same virtues but their foundations teach something more important than their virtues. If you are not saved, whether you have compassion or not, you will not benefit. This is for all monotheist who has this unfortunate view.

Differences are no mere the point than ABC fighting over them rather than acting in a diverse unit for same agreed goals.

ABC has love, compassion, and empathy in common. They have different foundations. How do you reconcile that and still accept diversity?​

We can build bridges between Faiths through things we have in common. The religions of the world have a lot in common that they can unite around.

We can unite them by agreed goals: but what are they?

What is agreed foundation between ABC to where their virtues will not be influenced by their differing foundations (god/gods/no god)?​

We need to come together is a spirit of compassion for humanity and leave our differences behind uniting with what we have in common.

How do you drop god/gods/no god and still accept and be compassionate without stepping on these three people's toes?​

Our differences should not prevent us from uniting. We are all bound to think differently but that should not stop us from coming together to establish world peace and unity.

That's why this does not make sense: differences behind uniting with what we have in common.

Either you accept diversity without combining them or not. Peace does not need common attributes. It needs agreement and acceptance and unconditional love without reservations (waiting for all to be one faith).

Where is peace by fixing differences to bring unity?
Who are you fixing by changing their foundations to meet yours?

Fixing-changing, adapting, altering, all words you guys used through the thread. No tangents.

Today more than ever we need spiritual guidance. It’s of the utmost importance that trustees of that guidance are worthy of the trust placed in them. That’s all I meant.

My repeated question:

What spiritual guidance and differences should I drop to have the same common foundation as you?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

De ja vu

@loverofhumanity

Excepting my questions. The one's not in quotes

What do they have in common by foundation not by virtues.

If you and I have the same virtue, love, how do you reconcile my definition of love with yours? How do you unite them?

ABC has love, compassion, and empathy in common. They have different foundations. How do you reconcile that and still accept diversity.

How do you reconcile reconcile god and no god by common value of love?

How do you drop god/gods/no god and still accept and be compassionate without stepping on these three people's toes.

How do you express the same love (and define it) with different foundations (god/gods/no god)?

Where is peace by fixing differences to bring unity?

Who are you fixing by changing their foundations to meet yours.

Fixing-changing, adapting, altering, all words you guys used through the thread. No tangents.

Finding fault in christianity, for example, does not bring unity.

Finding fault is the key to having no peace. How can you find peace without fault of other people's beliefs and scripture?

What spiritual guidance and differences should I drop to have the same common foundation as you.

What spiritual guidance and differences should I drop for my to have the same foundation and hence values as you?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Let me give you example. Okay, you have three religions: Religion A (RA...), religion B, and religion C. They are all different. A is monotheist B is poly theist C is atheist



Truth to A-is one god
Truth to B-is many gods
Truth to C-is no gods

Truths of them all? They are all letters of the alphabet? That's just saying their nature not their beliefs nor their virtues.

Okay, let's say A believes in love
B believes in compassion
C believes in empathy

Of course, they all have virtues in common, But

A believes love comes from one god
B believes compassion comes from more than one god
C believes that empathy has no god

What do they have in common by foundation not by virtues?​

We can still come together as one, but AB and C has to agree on the foundations. For example, B and C can display love but what their love is based on is totally totally different. When A (whoever) says that BC has it wrong, the contradiction is they believe in compassion and empathy from all three of you but then devalue and belittle the foundations of these virtues which are more important to BC than the virtues coming from them.



So, monotheist A (fill in the blank) wants everyone to be one. Polytheist B wants everyone to choose the truth best for them because they believe in many truths-hence poly not just one. Person C (for sake of example), does not see truth by deities so whatever A and B believes doesn't bother him.

ABC can accept each other. That is fine. Unfortunately, A wants everyone to be like them in foundation while C doesn't care. Similar foundations: love, compassion, and empathy, different foundations god, gods, and no god.

Monotheist A cannot change the foundations of polytheist and atheist just so they be saved, follow a prophet, I don't know, be one with nature as god. They can only come together by their virtues.



Differences equals diversity

Monotheist A can't say everyone will saved but then say B and C are will die if they are not. Yes, they can share the same virtues but their foundations teach something more important than their virtues. If you are not saved, whether you have compassion or not, you will not benefit. This is for all monotheist who has this unfortunate view.

Differences are no mere the point than ABC fighting over them rather than acting in a diverse unit for same agreed goals.

ABC has love, compassion, and empathy in common. They have different foundations. How do you reconcile that and still accept diversity?​

We can unite them by agreed goals: but what are they?

What is agreed foundation between ABC to where their virtues will not be influenced by their differing foundations (god/gods/no god)?​

How do you drop god/gods/no god and still accept and be compassionate without stepping on these three people's toes?​

That's why this does not make sense: differences behind uniting with what we have in common.

Either you accept diversity without combining them or not. Peace does not need common attributes. It needs agreement and acceptance and unconditional love without reservations (waiting for all to be one faith).

Where is peace by fixing differences to bring unity?
Who are you fixing by changing their foundations to meet yours?

Fixing-changing, adapting, altering, all words you guys used through the thread. No tangents.



My repeated question:

What spiritual guidance and differences should I drop to have the same common foundation as you?

There is nothing wrong with diversity except when the motive is hate.

I was just reading a book called Big Book Christian Apologetics as I was looking to find ways to defend Christianity and I came across pages and pages attacking Muhammad.

Very disappointing. Pages and pages attacking the Character of Muhammad accusing Him of immorality, of the Quran being a man made Book, of Islam as nothing but a war machine.

They left out quotes which put Islam in a good light and quoted extensively from authors opposed to Islam to discredit it.

People can have different beliefs and views. They can be questioned. But I think it’s going too far to attack a Holy Book and it’s Prophet. By all means argue the point about what believers may claim but we should not provoke or incite hatred against the Founders of Faiths or their Holy Books.

Praise to both Muhammad and Jesus.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There is nothing wrong with diversity except when the motive is hate.

I was just reading a book called Big Book Christian Apologetics as I was looking to find ways to defend Christianity and I came across pages and pages attacking Muhammad.

Very disappointing. Pages and pages attacking the Character of Muhammad accusing Him of immorality, of the Quran being a man made Book, of Islam as nothing but a war machine.

They left out quotes which put Islam in a good light and quoted extensively from authors opposed to Islam to discredit it.

People can have different beliefs and views. They can be questioned. But I think it’s going too far to attack a Holy Book and it’s Prophet. By all means argue the point about what believers may claim but we should not provoke or incite hatred against the Founders of Faiths or their Holy Books.

Praise to both Muhammad and Jesus.

I understand. Here's the thing:

1. In Bahai, there is no trinity
2. In Christianity, there is (whether relationship or corelationship)

Trinity, however define, is the core part of the christian faith both in scripture and in person

3. It is fine to say "we disagree"
4. It is not fine to say "we find fault"

As a result of finding fault...

people will disagree with you.

5. When people disagree it means there are differences.
6. Since you guys don't care for differences, you try to unite.
7. When you try to unite, you take out the trinity.

Point: That does not bring peace but it belittles the people you want to have peace with. Regardless of your goal, the method and speech of achieving that goal is not aligned with what you want to do.

To achieve what you want, in my opinion, you must:

1. Accept other people's scripture as it. If not, it's not their scripture; it's yours

2. Change your wording. The Buddha says we are to be wise in body, speech, and mind. Since Bahai always agree, that's a good way to start.

3. Seeing problems in people and reflecting it off their faith is like saying Bahai belief is wrong because you go out stealing.

Point: That, to me, makes no sense one iota.

I know you want peace.

I am not questioning what you want, I'm questioning you on how you go about doing this.

You never answered in the first, I don't know, thousands of posts. The only think I can conclude is you don't understand what I'm asking or it's not your belief so you avoid answers in fear of disagreement.

I dont know. Can't learn about everyone.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I cant have a one sided conversation. Adrian comes here less than you and we still maintain an two sided conversation. If you dont want to deviat and talk about the buddha too, this isnt a convo just telling me what bahai believes.

Carlita, after reaching nearly 18,000 posts, I see it as a Conversation as to what do all the Great Beings actually say we should beleive, have faith in and practice in our lives.

I see the world curently reflects humanity following its own paths and not that of Gods Message as given by the Great Beings.

I remember you talking about colour at one time, I share this quote as it reflects what is happening in this world;

“O CHILDREN OF VAINGLORY! For a fleeting sovereignty ye have abandoned My imperishable dominion, and have adorned yourselves with the gay livery of the world and made of it your boast. By My beauty! All will I gather beneath the one-colored covering of the dust and efface all these diverse colors save them that choose My own, and that is purging from every color."

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Tony. Youre switching topics. Confuses me to where I write longer post trying to figure out how to address your first point before going to the next.

My position would be that anything that has been recorded as coming from the Buddha, would need to be balanced with thoughts from other Great Beings.

Lets start with this.

Nothing was recorded by Bahaullah. It is not the same because there is no god.

I guess any further discussion first needs to confirm how accurate are these records.

They are not accurate because the first recond was written in the third century after The Buddha's death. His disciples recorded orally what they remembered to a concil. They put the pali canon together, not The Buddha.

"What the original teachings were, Buddha Vacana ("word of the Buddha") has been the subject of debate and historical argument for centuries.......the teachings passed down over a period of many centuries as an oral tradition before being committed to writing. During this time they were codified in a form suitable for easy memorization and chanting. Academics are in disagreement over the content of the original source teachings that gave rise to th

They disagree because its hard to put accuracy verbatim what The Buddha taught. Bahai is going by word of mouth not Buddha actual words. Your interpretation is not as well put together as theirs

I would see this view as the most likely fate of the original word of Buddha;

Without bahauallah, how could you find it?

Arguments given for an agnostic attitude include that the evidence for the Buddha's teachings dates from (long) after his death.

Buddha was a polytheist. His work reflects that through language. Its not aagnostic culture just belief.

Carlita, after reaching nearly 18,000 posts, I see it as a Conversation as to what do all the Great Beings actually say we should beleive, have faith in and practice in our lives.

Youd have to quote and interpret which suttas you speak of.

I remember you talking about colour at one time, I share this quote as it reflects what is happening in this world;

I did? I dont remember what I referred to. I dont remember all my posts.

see the world curently reflects humanity following its own paths and not that of Gods Message as given by the Great Beings.

I dont understand. Your views are reflected by gods message through the manifestations

We are sticking to your original point: the validty and origin of the Pali Canon.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I understand. Here's the thing:

1. In Bahai, there is no trinity
2. In Christianity, there is (whether relationship or corelationship)

Trinity, however define, is the core part of the christian faith both in scripture and in person

3. It is fine to say "we disagree"
4. It is not fine to say "we find fault"

As a result of finding fault...

people will disagree with you.

5. When people disagree it means there are differences.
6. Since you guys don't care for differences, you try to unite.
7. When you try to unite, you take out the trinity.

Point: That does not bring peace but it belittles the people you want to have peace with. Regardless of your goal, the method and speech of achieving that goal is not aligned with what you want to do.

To achieve what you want, in my opinion, you must:

1. Accept other people's scripture as it. If not, it's not their scripture; it's yours

2. Change your wording. The Buddha says we are to be wise in body, speech, and mind. Since Bahai always agree, that's a good way to start.

3. Seeing problems in people and reflecting it off their faith is like saying Bahai belief is wrong because you go out stealing.

Point: That, to me, makes no sense one iota.

I know you want peace.

I am not questioning what you want, I'm questioning you on how you go about doing this.

You never answered in the first, I don't know, thousands of posts. The only think I can conclude is you don't understand what I'm asking or it's not your belief so you avoid answers in fear of disagreement.

I dont know. Can't learn about everyone.

Yes I agree that it’s important to put things in a way that is amiable. I’m still learning to balance frankness and openness with wisdom.

Let’s look at the belief in the trinity.

With regards to the trinity, nowhere in the Bible is the Word trinity ever mentioned. It is an interpretation only.

What the Bible does make clear is that God is one.

13 Bible verses about God Is One

The relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit does not mean there are three persons within God. That is contrary to what the Bible teaches that God is one.

Christ said ‘my Father is greater than I’. Indicating God is a separate entity. When Jesus says ‘my Father and I are one’ He is not saying they are the same person just like He is not saying all Christians are God or Jesus when He also states.

John 17:23

I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me — that they may be perfectly united, so that the worldmay know that You sent Me and have lovedthem just as You have loved Me. 24Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am, that they may see the glory You gave Me because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.…

By “ i in them and you in me” does not mean Christians are Jesus just like it does not mean Christ is God.

The key word here is ‘united’. That Christians are united in Jesus, that they are one with Him just as Jesus is united and at one with God but not that they are a part of each other. A follower of Jesus because He is ‘at one’ with Jesus doesn’t mean he/she becomes Jesus just like Jesus being ‘at one with God’ does not mean He is or becomes God.

John 6:38

For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

Again Jesus clearly distinguishes Himself from ‘Him (God) that sent me? And that He is doing God’s Will not His own.

When Jesus says the Father is in me it doesn’t mean He is the Father but Christ like a pure mirror reflects God’s truth like a pure mirror reflects the light of the sun.

If you looked at Christ you saw God’s reflection within but God did not descend into Jesus. God was always independent but connected like the sun and it’s rays are connected. The rays of the sun emanate from the sun as the Holy Spirit emanates from God but the rays themselves are not the sun.

There are so many passages in the Bible that contradict the concept of the trinity and also the word trinity is never mentioned so it is in reality an interpretation not what the texts say.

There are no texts in the Bible which speak of the word trinity.

Christ also said that there were many things that the disciples did not understand. That He would send someone to explain thrm in the future.

John 16:12-15
[12] "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. [13] But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. [14] He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. [15] All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

The personal pronoun is used proliferate here as it is referring to a Person not a spirit. It is clear beyond doubt.

Now is that time and Baha’u’llah is that ‘Spirit of truth’ Who has come to clarify these things that have been misunderstood.

In His Tablet to the Christians Baha’u’llah quotes from that passage saying....

This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: ’Ye cannot bear it now.’ Say, verily, He hath testified of Me, and I do testify of Him. Indeed, He hath purposed no one other than Me. Verily, He Who is the Spirit of Truth is come to guide you unto all truth. He speaketh not as prompted by His own self, but as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. (Baha’u’llah- Tablet to the Christians)

So a Christ with a new name embodying the Spirit of Truth Who is to appear in Persia is foretold clearly in the Bible for those who wish to see. (Jeremiah 49:38) ‘ I will set my throne in Elam (Persia)

That is why Jesus, when addressing the churches said continually things like ‘for those with ears to hear and eyes to see’ indicating not outward but inward vision and hearing, insight and understanding are needed.

It is one thing to read God’s Holy Word and another to understand it.

I have referred often to the disunity within Christianity to point out the confusion and contradiction that exists amongst them as to the meanings of the Bible not out of disrespect and that should not be misconstrued as I am already a believer in Jesus and the Gospels.

The point being emphasised here is that Christ Himself said that ‘further clarification ’ of the truth would be needed in the future and we see more than ever this is so with Christianity divided into over 40,000 sects.

Things like the trinity, original sin and other things are not unitedly agreed upon.

It is an integral part of Christian belief to look for Christ when He returns to unite them into ‘one fold’. This obligation is an integral part of the message of the Gospels. Baha’u’llah has come and it is for Christians to turn to Him as He is the One mentioned in their Books.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

With regards to the trinity, nowhere in the Bible is the Word trinity ever mentioned. It is an interpretation only.

What the Bible does make clear is that God is one.

Back in the mid1980,s I was out to show my mother that the Trinity was not biblical and that Jesus was not God.

I thus sat down an read the New Testament front to back. While reading I wrote down all the passages where it was plain to see that Jesus was not God. Six x A4 pages full of quotes later, I sat down and proceeded to pull out the 'Winners' so I could start my letter to my Mother.

Right

I started but soon stopped, I had came to the plain reality that there are so many passages, why did my mother not see this? It would not matter what I wrote as what was clouding her vision was not to be found in those passages.

Regards Tony

 

[siti]

It would not matter what I wrote as what was clouding her vision was not to be found in those passages.

This as the seventeen thousand four hundred and ninety fifth post in a thread about a re-interpretation of religious traditions with no genuine basis in either historical fact or religious tradition (save the one being promoted)...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes I agree that it’s important to put things in a way that is amiable. I’m still learning to balance frankness and openness with wisdom.

Let’s look at the belief in the trinity.

With regards to the trinity, nowhere in the Bible is the Word trinity ever mentioned. It is an interpretation only.

What the Bible does make clear is that God is one.

13 Bible verses about God Is One

The relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit does not mean there are three persons within God. That is contrary to what the Bible teaches that God is one.

Christ said ‘my Father is greater than I’. Indicating God is a separate entity. When Jesus says ‘my Father and I are one’ He is not saying they are the same person just like He is not saying all Christians are God or Jesus when He also states.

John 17:23

I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me — that they may be perfectly united, so that the worldmay know that You sent Me and have lovedthem just as You have loved Me. 24Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am, that they may see the glory You gave Me because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.…

By “ i in them and you in me” does not mean Christians are Jesus just like it does not mean Christ is God.

The key word here is ‘united’. That Christians are united in Jesus, that they are one with Him just as Jesus is united and at one with God but not that they are a part of each other. A follower of Jesus because He is ‘at one’ with Jesus doesn’t mean he/she becomes Jesus just like Jesus being ‘at one with God’ does not mean He is or becomes God.

John 6:38

For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

Again Jesus clearly distinguishes Himself from ‘Him (God) that sent me? And that He is doing God’s Will not His own.

When Jesus says the Father is in me it doesn’t mean He is the Father but Christ like a pure mirror reflects God’s truth like a pure mirror reflects the light of the sun.

If you looked at Christ you saw God’s reflection within but God did not descend into Jesus. God was always independent but connected like the sun and it’s rays are connected. The rays of the sun emanate from the sun as the Holy Spirit emanates from God but the rays themselves are not the sun.

There are so many passages in the Bible that contradict the concept of the trinity and also the word trinity is never mentioned so it is in reality an interpretation not what the texts say.

There are no texts in the Bible which speak of the word trinity.

Christ also said that there were many things that the disciples did not understand. That He would send someone to explain thrm in the future.

John 16:12-15
[12] "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. [13] But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. [14] He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. [15] All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

The personal pronoun is used proliferate here as it is referring to a Person not a spirit. It is clear beyond doubt.

Now is that time and Baha’u’llah is that ‘Spirit of truth’ Who has come to clarify these things that have been misunderstood.

In His Tablet to the Christians Baha’u’llah quotes from that passage saying....

This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: ’Ye cannot bear it now.’ Say, verily, He hath testified of Me, and I do testify of Him. Indeed, He hath purposed no one other than Me. Verily, He Who is the Spirit of Truth is come to guide you unto all truth. He speaketh not as prompted by His own self, but as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. (Baha’u’llah- Tablet to the Christians)

So a Christ with a new name embodying the Spirit of Truth Who is to appear in Persia is foretold clearly in the Bible for those who wish to see. (Jeremiah 49:38) ‘ I will set my throne in Elam (Persia)

That is why Jesus, when addressing the churches said continually things like ‘for those with ears to hear and eyes to see’ indicating not outward but inward vision and hearing, insight and understanding are needed.

It is one thing to read God’s Holy Word and another to understand it.

I have referred often to the disunity within Christianity to point out the confusion and contradiction that exists amongst them as to the meanings of the Bible not out of disrespect and that should not be misconstrued as I am already a believer in Jesus and the Gospels.

The point being emphasised here is that Christ Himself said that ‘further clarification ’ of the truth would be needed in the future and we see more than ever this is so with Christianity divided into over 40,000 sects.

Things like the trinity, original sin and other things are not unitedly agreed upon.

It is an integral part of Christian belief to look for Christ when He returns to unite them into ‘one fold’. This obligation is an integral part of the message of the Gospels. Baha’u’llah has come and it is for Christians to turn to Him as He is the One mentioned in their Books.

I have to go to a desktop for this.

What is your definition of trinity?

Start from there.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In the book Big Book of Christian Apologetics everything possible is done to try and demean Muhammad even ridiculous claims that because He could sign His own name that He was not illiterate despite it being common knowledge that Muhammad was illiterate and even the Covenant with the Sinai Monks shows a handprint and not a signature.

When irresponsible leaders of religion such as these attack the Founders of other religions, question their legitimacy and even character and morality which this author has, thry create hatred and disunity and estrangement between billions of people, an inexcuseable effort to further divide humanity and which is reprehensible and should be exposed fir what it us - a cheap shot’ at making sure their followers see only their way as worthy and that all other paths to truth or God are evil or satanic.

The anti Muslim people he quotes from he calls ‘ an authority on Islam’. Honestly, would an authority on Christianity be one opposed to it? Quoting biased sources as ‘an authority’ exposes the insincere intentions of this author very clearly here.

Muslims insist that no book with its message could have come from an illiterate prophet, as was Muhammad.
It is questionable that Muhammad was actually illiterate. As one authority noted, the Arabic words al umni, translated “the unlettered” prophet in the Qur’an (sura 7:157), “may be [rendered] ‘heathen’ rather than ‘illiterate.’” Pfander prefers the translation, “the Gentile Prophet,” agreeing that the term does not imply illiteracy (ibid., 254). The same word is rendered “gentiles” in sura 62:2: “He it is Who hath sent among gentiles (al umni),” and in suras 2:73; 3:19, 69; 7:156.
The evidence suggests that Muhammad was not totally illiterate. For example, “when the Treaty of Hudaibah was being signed, Muhammad took the pen from Ali, struck out the words in which Ali had designated him “the apostle of God” and wrote instead with his own hand the words “son of Abdu’llah.” And “tradition tells us too that, when he was dying, Muhammad called for pen and ink, to write a command appointing his successor, but his strength failed him before writing-materials were brought

Back in the mid1980,s I was out to show my mother that the Trinity was not biblical and that Jesus was not God.

I thus sat down an read the New Testament front to back. While reading I wrote down all the passages where it was plain to see that Jesus was not God. Six x A4 pages full of quotes later, I sat down and proceeded to pull out the 'Winners' so I could start my letter to my Mother.

Right

I started but soon stopped, I had came to the plain reality that there are so many passages, why did my mother not see this? It would not matter what I wrote as what was clouding her vision was not to be found in those passages.

View attachment 20292

Regards Tony

Hi Tony.

Yes, some things are very hard for others to digest. That’s why Abdul-Baha would often repeat what He said because often it took a while and much elaboration over time before it was appreciated.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony. Youre switching topics. Confuses me to where I write longer post trying to figure out how to address your first point before going to the next.

We are sticking to your original point: the validty and origin of the Pali Canon.

Your statement below is what my research soon discovered;

Without bahauallah, how could you find it?

I found that the answer is, that it will be very unlikely we will find the answer to what the Buddha originally taught, without Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This as the seventeen thousand four hundred and ninety fifth post in a thread about a re-interpretation of religious traditions with no genuine basis in either historical fact or religious tradition (save the one being promoted)...

Thus the reason the letter was never written. It was Christ that said he would return on those clouds.

Hope you are well and Happy.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

I have to go to a desktop for this.

What is your definition of trinity?

Start from there.

That’s a great start.

As the Bible states we believe in God the Father, Jesus as the Son of God and the Holy Spirit.

That there is a mystical relationship between them but not they they are all God.

Jesus said ,My Father is greater than I’

He also said ‘My Father and I are one’ but He meant united as one not the same individual otherwise He contradicts His statement that ‘My Father is greater than i’. But if the meaning is that He is at one in unity with His Father then both statements do not contradict each other anymore. They both make sense.

The Bible (truth) never contradicts itself, only how we understand it does.