How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

That’s a great start.

As the Bible states we believe in God the Father, Jesus as the Son of God and the Holy Spirit.

That there is a mystical relationship between them but not they they are all God.

Jesus said ,My Father is greater than I’

He also said ‘My Father and I are one’ but He meant united as one not the same individual otherwise He contradicts His statement that ‘MynFather is greater than i’. But if the meaning is that He is at one in unity with His Father then both statements do not contradict each other anymore. They both make sense.

Carlita, I really admire you. You have so many ‘hats’. With me it’s the trinity and with Tony Buddhism. ‍

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hi Tony.

Yes, some things are very hard for others to digest. That’s why Abdul-Baha would often repeat what He said because often it took a while and much elaboration over time before it was appreciated.

This story I love "When He was here in America in 1912 He spoke in many places and, as we read these talks in the Promulgation of Universal Peace, it is very often noticeable how much He repeats Himself, approaching the point He wishes to make from many angles. One evening a woman, after telling Him how much she had enjoyed His Talk, complained of this. He smiled at her gently. “And what is it I repeat?” He asked. Of course she couldn’t tell Him. (Reginald Grant Barrow, Mother’s Stories: Stories of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá and Early Believers told by Muriel Ives Barrow Newhall to her son, p. 37)

P/S You might have another answer to another post above this reply, check it out, if you do delete and I will delete this

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

This story I love "When He was here in America in 1912 He spoke in many places and, as we read these talks in the Promulgation of Universal Peace, it is very often noticeable how much He repeats Himself, approaching the point He wishes to make from many angles. One evening a woman, after telling Him how much she had enjoyed His Talk, complained of this. He smiled at her gently. “And what is it I repeat?” He asked. Of course she couldn’t tell Him. (Reginald Grant Barrow, Mother’s Stories: Stories of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá and Early Believers told by Muriel Ives Barrow Newhall to her son, p. 37)

P/S You might have another answer to another post above this reply, check it out, if you do delete and I will delete this

Regards Tony

That’s a great story. It often takes me a long time for things to sink in. But eventually the penny will drop. Ha! Ha,

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I found that the answer is, that it will be very unlikely we will find the answer to what the Buddha originally taught, without Baha'u'llah.

How so? I posted a lot of the sutras. More so to Adrian though. Its always ignored or met with there are faults in interpretation. Are you "able" to see differences (not rays. Multiple suns).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita, I really admire you. You have so many ‘hats’. With me it’s the trinity and with Tony Buddhism. ‍

I kinda like my discussion with Adrian too. Hope I didn't bog him too much with info (well, more than my usual )

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That’s a great start.

As the Bible states we believe in God the Father, Jesus as the Son of God and the Holy Spirit.

That there is a mystical relationship between them but not they they are all God.

Jesus said, My Father is greater than I’

He also said ‘My Father and I are one’ but He meant united as one not the same individual otherwise He contradicts His statement that ‘My Father is greater than i’. But if the meaning is that He is at one in unity with His Father then both statements do not contradict each other anymore. They both make sense.

The Bible (truth) never contradicts itself, only how we understand it does.

How I Experienced the trinity is when you go to the Eucharist you commune In (above and through) Jesus Christ. In doing so, the same (not mirror of) commune with jesus ad gods son not stranger, you commune with Jesus father. The only way to know god is Through Jesus. If scripture/church doesn't put Jesus at the same authority as father he is "just another prophet "

When you commune with jesus, you commune with god: that is the trinity.

I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me — that they may beperfectly united, so that the worldmay know that You sent Meand have lovedthem just as You have loved Me. 24Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am, that they may see the glory You gave Me because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.…​

This is the trinity. Its the relationship between three people (trin.) as one person. How? Through Jesus.

Again Jesus clearly distinguishes Himself from ‘Him (God) that sent me? And that He is doing God’s Will not His own.

He and his father have the same authority. Big clue is like father like son. Its expressed as Christ serving his father. He has a full relationship (relation) with his father that Christians don't have. That relationship is expressed as they are one person. Examples: the Eucharist. No catholic sees Jesus "as" the Eucharist. Yet, they cannot differentiate the consecrated bread from Jesus. The relation- ship consecrated bread is no different than Jesus as communion. The use of IS is emphasis on relationship nothing more. Exact same concept with the trinity. (Keep with trinity; just an example)

12] "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. [13] But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. [14] He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. [15] All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.​

This is trinity. Relationship between his father and himself cannot be separated. Hence the To Be verb and not preps in christian discription. Bible uses prepositions to separate the image from his father in physical nature not his spirit.

I have referred often to the disunity within Christianity to point out the confusion and contradiction that exists amongst them as to the meanings of the Bible not out of disrespect and that should not be misconstrued as I am already a believer in Jesus and the Gospels.​

I see differences, I dont see fault. This isn't a math equation. Must be abrahamic thing. Shrugs

 

[siti]

Thus the reason the letter was never written.

Yes - but you must see how much we all love you guys - we - at least some of us - have stuck with the futile task of demonstrating the obvious fallacies of your faith for 17.5K posts when you couldn't even send 6 pages of A4 notes to your own mother to help her overcome the obvious fallacy of the trinity......you should feel truly blessed I think.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes - but you must see how much we all love you guys - we - at least some of us - have stuck with the futile task of demonstrating the obvious fallacies of your faith for 17.5K posts when you couldn't even send 6 pages of A4 notes to your own mother to help her overcome the obvious fallacy of the trinity......you should feel truly blessed I think.

It was at that time my mother cut all connection with me, under the Law she could not associate with a Baha'i. That continued for some time until she found out that was not the way to practice the Love of Christ.

A good demonstration, that Love, no matter how well meant, can also be used wrongly.

On the other hand, I go to Church with Her. .

I can tell you her Pastor does not beleive what Baha'u'llah said as well. After all I had to tell him after He prayed for Jesus to come quickly.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How so? I posted a lot of the sutras. More so to Adrian though. Its always ignored or met with there are faults in interpretation. Are you "able" to see differences (not rays. Multiple suns).

I see the Pure Light comes from the Great Beings and in this world one can see differences of colour. Our aim is to purge ourselves of those differences and be one with the Pure Light, purged of colour.

The Buddha would have been guiding us to that aim and the Pure Light of God would have been the Message. If God has been removed, man has made a separation of the light because they have become a lover of particular colours.

Thus the beauty in Colour, is knowing that is is a result of One source of Pure unseperated Light, that in this world has been seperated so we can understand the beauty contained within.

In science we find our confirmation of this spiritual metephor of light . We look at sunlight and it is actually a mixture of all of the visible light wavelengths. It is called white light. When it remains mixed, it is difficult for us to separate the colors out, but at certain times the light does get separated out and we see Colour.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I see the Pure Light comes from the Great Beings and in this world one can see differences of colour. Our aim is to purge ourselves of those differences and be one with the Pure Light, purged of colour.

The Buddha would have been guiding us to that aim and the Pure Light of God would have been the Message. If God has been removed, man has made a separation of the light because they have become a lover of particular colours.

Thus the beauty in Colour, is knowing that is is a result of One source of Pure unseperated Light, that in this world has been seperated so we can understand the beauty contained within.

In science we find our confirmation of this spiritual metephor of light . We look at sunlight and it is actually a mixture of all of the visible light wavelengths. It is called white light. When it remains mixed, it is difficult for us to separate the colors out, but at certain times the light does get separated out and we see Colour.

Regards Tony

I disagree with The Buddha view in your post. You'd have to talk more about it from the Pali Suttas (various ones) so I understand that more than hearsay.

To me...

Differences does not cause wars
They dont break people apart
They are blessings

No unity can make differences less important than unity itself.

So, if you start from the suttas, not bahai scripture, other than the dhammapada since that has mystics in it, what other suttas mirrors bahaullahs words?

Be specific.
Multiple quotes
Your interpretation

Take your time.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How I Experienced the trinity is when you go to the Eucharist you commune In (above and through) Jesus Christ. In doing so, the same (not mirror of) commune with jesus ad gods son not stranger, you commune with Jesus father. The only way to know god is Through Jesus. If scripture/church doesn't put Jesus at the same authority as father he is "just another prophet "

When you commune with jesus, you commune with god: that is the trinity.

I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me — that they may beperfectly united, so that the worldmay know that You sent Meand have lovedthem just as You have loved Me. 24Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am, that they may see the glory You gave Me because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.…​

This is the trinity. Its the relationship between three people (trin.) as one person. How? Through Jesus.

Again Jesus clearly distinguishes Himself from ‘Him (God) that sent me? And that He is doing God’s Will not His own.

He and his father have the same authority. Big clue is like father like son. Its expressed as Christ serving his father. He has a full relationship (relation) with his father that Christians don't have. That relationship is expressed as they are one person. Examples: the Eucharist. No catholic sees Jesus "as" the Eucharist. Yet, they cannot differentiate the consecrated bread from Jesus. The relation- ship consecrated bread is no different than Jesus as communion. The use of IS is emphasis on relationship nothing more. Exact same concept with the trinity. (Keep with trinity; just an example)

12] "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. [13] But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. [14] He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. [15] All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.​

This is trinity. Relationship between his father and himself cannot be separated. Hence the To Be verb and not preps in christian discription. Bible uses prepositions to separate the image from his father in physical nature not his spirit.

I have referred often to the disunity within Christianity to point out the confusion and contradiction that exists amongst them as to the meanings of the Bible not out of disrespect and that should not be misconstrued as I am already a believer in Jesus and the Gospels.​

I see differences, I dont see fault. This isn't a math equation. Must be abrahamic thing. Shrugs

For me the key word is relationship. The relationship Jesus has with the Father is unique. You put it very well.

 

[CG Didymus]

Because the knowledge of these Great Beings all comes from the same Source, often a subsequent Revelation will correct what the followers of the previous Revelation have misunderstood.

Here is one example where God, through the Quran, addresses the concept of the trinity and explains God is one not three.

5:73:Most certainly, they have disbelieved who say, ‘Allâh is the third of the three.’ But in fact there is no other, cannot be and will never be one worthy of worship except One God.

If one sees all religion as really one religion evolving throughout the ages then you can see how awesome it is that God continually updates, renews and clarifies His Word and it’s true meanings regularly throughout history o try and help those who have misunderstood.

We are never alone. God continually sends us guidance. So we can see that not long after the church had made errors regarding the concept of God and the Holy Spirit and the Divinity of Christ, which were controversial topics resulting in disunity, the Quran then came along clarifying the truth.

For those who rejected the Quran, they remain sunk in superstition as God explained that God is one not three in the Quran but Christians refused to humble themselves before Muhammad even though He was foretold in the Bible so to this day remain deprived of His glorious guidance.

I'm sure you've already done it, but can you go over those verses that foretold Muhammad.

 

[CG Didymus]

This post and this:


Saying this, Is Exactly why there is no peace.

Bias, pointing fingers, blame does nothing. Im sorry youre experience in the church made you have these views. Many catholics left there faith because of thjs and other catholics (people) nonsense.

I still go with the church and christians. Its Not my faith and its not yours. (Youre not part of the body of christ; you left the church)

If you want to have peace, drop the bias.

It starts with you.

Baha'is are only fallible people. You are exactly right. No people of any religion are so perfect as to justify pointing fingers. All have their scandals.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why don’t we all accept the truth in all religions? We can accept our truth as well as others. Truth is one and no one truth can contradict another truth. By truth I don’t mean every person’s opinion but the things we have in common.

What harm is there in accepting them? If we really want peace then what’s wrong with accepting the truth in each other’s Faith?

To reconcile our differences we need to look at what we have in common.

We can build bridges between Faiths through things we have in common. The religions of the world have a lot in common that they can unite around.

We need to come together is a spirit of compassion for humanity and leave our differences behind uniting with what we have in common.

Our differences should not prevent us from uniting. We are all bound to think differently but that should not stop us from coming together to establish world peace and unity.

You don't accept "all" truths of all religions. Baha'is define what is the truth in all religions and reject the rest. There are people that reject the Baha'i Faith, because they can't accept all of it... Just some of it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm sure you've already done it, but can you go over those verses that foretold Muhammad.

Of I may, since I just happened to see this post.... I do not know any verses that foretold Muhammad spefically, but the following is where Muhammad is mentioned in the "authoritative writings" of the Baha'i Faith:

“The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.” (Rev. 11:14). The first woe is the appearance of the Prophet, Muhammad, the son of ‘Abdu’lláh—peace be upon Him! The second woe is that of the Báb—to Him be glory and praise! The third woe is the great day of the manifestation of the Lord of Hosts and the radiance of the Beauty of the Promised One. The explanation of this subject, woe, is mentioned in the thirtieth chapter of Ezekiel, where it is said: “The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near.” (Ez. 30:1–3). Therefore, it is certain that the day of woe is the day of the Lord; for in that day woe is for the neglectful, woe is for the sinners, woe is for the ignorant. That is why it is said, “The second woe is past; behold the third woe cometh quickly!” This third woe is the day of the manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh, the day of God; and it is near to the day of the appearance of the Báb.

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.” (Rev. 11:15).
Some Answered Questions, pp. 45-61

Baha'u'llah is the seventh angel.

 

[CG Didymus]

Of I may, since I just happened to see this post.... I do not know any verses that foretold Muhammad spefically, but the following is where Muhammad is mentioned in the "authoritative writings" of the Baha'i Faith:

“The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.” (Rev. 11:14). The first woe is the appearance of the Prophet, Muhammad, the son of ‘Abdu’lláh—peace be upon Him! The second woe is that of the Báb—to Him be glory and praise! The third woe is the great day of the manifestation of the Lord of Hosts and the radiance of the Beauty of the Promised One. The explanation of this subject, woe, is mentioned in the thirtieth chapter of Ezekiel, where it is said: “The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near.” (Ez. 30:1–3). Therefore, it is certain that the day of woe is the day of the Lord; for in that day woe is for the neglectful, woe is for the sinners, woe is for the ignorant. That is why it is said, “The second woe is past; behold the third woe cometh quickly!” This third woe is the day of the manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh, the day of God; and it is near to the day of the appearance of the Báb.

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.” (Rev. 11:15).
Some Answered Questions, pp. 45-61

Baha'u'llah is the seventh angel.

Thanks but the first "woe" is a little vague. Nothing else that you know of?

 

[Trailblazer]

Thanks but the first "woe" is a little vague. Nothing else that you know of?

Sorry, but I was never a Christian before I became a Baha'i so I had no reason to read the Bible. I have only learned what I know in the last five years from looking up verses online and posting to Christians. The rest of what I know comes from what Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha wrote about the Bible.

I can put out that question on the Baha'i Forums and I will no doubt get an answer from one of the more knowledgeable Baha'is.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm sure you've already done it, but can you go over those verses that foretold Muhammad.

Hi CG. Welcome back!

It’s in Revelation Chapter 12. The religion of God is compared to a bride being prepared for her husband. I’ll give the quote from Abdul Baha here.

“the religion of God is likened to an adorned bride who appears with the utmost grace, as it has been said in chapter 21 of the Revelation of John: “And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

“And in chapter 12 it is said: “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.” This woman is that bride, the religion of God, that descended upon Muḥammad. The sun with which she was clothed, and the moon which was under her feet, are the two governments which are under the shadow of that religion, the Persian and the Ottoman, for the emblem of Persia is the sun and that of the Ottoman Empire is the crescent moon. Thus the sun and the moon allude to two governments under the shadow of the religion of God. Afterwards it is said: “upon her head a crown of twelve stars”. These twelve stars represent the twelve Imáms, who were the promoters of the religion of Muḥammad and the educators of the nation, and who shone as stars in the heaven of guidance.”

Some Answered Questions
‘Abdu’l‑Bahá

See how exact these prophecies are even regarding the place that Islam was to rule ‘The sun and the moon’ being the emblems of Persia and the Ottoman Empire. Makes so much sense to me.

And then the twelve Imams were the stars of Islam which is so true. It’s an excellent interpretation which just confirms the history of Islam. It goes on later about how the Umayyads rose up against Muhammad and Ali.

The Bible predicted Islam in depth but so far this is not understood.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You don't accept "all" truths of all religions. Baha'is define what is the truth in all religions and reject the rest. There are people that reject the Baha'i Faith, because they can't accept all of it... Just some of it.

What is truth and who defines what it is?

For us the Manifestations define truth. So we accept what all these Educators have stated and their Holy Books but not all the interpretations of individuals.

So for instance we accept the truth of the Bible and Christ and we are encouraged to pray in churches and mix with all religionists as equals. But Christians teach things like Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad and Baha’u’llah are false Prophets and we should not believe in them. Where does it name by name in the Bible that these Manifestations are false? It doesn’t. They have ‘added’ this to their Book and it is not mentioned. It is a ‘belief’ but not a ‘truth’ we reject.

But we accept all truth in all religions. All we reject are the notions of exclusivity or superiority. Where does it say in the Scriptures of religions to worship and bow and pray to statues? This is not a truth taught by the Founder.

There are many man made traditions within religions that are not truth just customs and nothing to do with truth.

We accept all truth but not all the man made traditions, customs and interpretations of others.

Truth can be found within the Holy Scriptures of each religion.

I have all the Holy Books of all Faiths and they are all truth and I accept them as my own scripture. We read from them all in our Houses of Worship over the world each week.

So we do accept all truth but not that which is man made such as certain traditions, ceremonies, customs, statue worship and sacraments. These practices were never taught by the Founders.

 

[Trailblazer]

What is truth and who defines what it is?

For us the Manifestations define truth. So we accept what all these Educators have stated and their Holy Books but not all the interpretations of individuals.

So for instance we accept the truth of the Bible and Christ and we are encouraged to pray in churches and mix with all religionists as equals. But Christians teach things like Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad and Baha’u’llah are false Prophets and we should not believe in them. Where does it name by name in the Bible that these Manifestations are false? It doesn’t. They have ‘added’ this to their Book and it is not mentioned. It is a ‘belief’ but not a ‘truth’ we reject.

But we accept all truth in all religions. All we reject are the notions of exclusivity or superiority. Where does it say in the Scriptures of religions to worship and bow and pray to statues? This is not a truth taught by the Founder.

There are many man made traditions within religions that are not truth just customs and nothing to do with truth.

We accept all truth but not all the man made traditions, customs and interpretations of others.

Truth can be found within the Holy Scriptures of each religion.

I have all the Holy Books of all Faiths and they are all truth and I accept them as my own scripture. We read from them all in our Houses of Worship over the world each week.

So we do accept all truth but not that which is man made such as certain traditions, ceremonies, customs, statue worship and sacraments. These practices were never taught by the Founders.

"Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60