How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Skywalker]

Jesus was more than a good man or a preacher and he was a Savior but Jesus was not God the Creator or God the Savior. That was not who Jesus ever claimed to be. Rather this was what was decided upon that Jesus was at the Council of Nicaea, and sadly, most Christians have believed it ever since.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

That was written and applied only to when Christianity was the narrow way, when there were very few Christians in the first centuries, but Christianity is no longer the narrow way because about 30% of the world population is now Christians. Given that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, Christianity is now "the wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."

Just as Christianity was the small gate and the narrow road that led to eternal life in the first centuries when there were few Christians, the Baha'i Faith is now the small gate and the narrow road that leads to eternal life in the first centuries since its inception.

Many or most people do not believe in the Baha’i Faith because it is the new religion at the narrow gate. Below are the primary reasons why most people do not believe in a new religion.

The religion at the narrow gate is the religion God wants us to find and follow, and it is the gate that leads to eternal life. But it is not that easy for most people to find this gate because most people are steeped in religious tradition or attached to what they already believe. If they do not have a religion, most people are suspicious of the new religion and the new Messenger. If they are atheists they do not like the idea of Messengers of God or they think they are all phonies. If they are irreligious they have become fatigued by the already established religions and thus just find it more annoying that a new one has popped up.

It is difficult to get through the narrow gate because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not normally embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow the broad road that is easiest for them to travel.

The Bible mentions Jesus saying he was God. In John 8:58 Jesus said before Abraham was I am.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Bible mentions Jesus saying he was God. In John 8:58 Jesus said before Abraham was I am.

That is not an example of Jesus saying that he is God. And what about all of the verses where he says that he is not God?

 

[Trailblazer]

The Bible mentions Jesus saying he was God. In John 8:58 Jesus said before Abraham was I am.

That is not Jesus saying that He was God. Jesus was before Abraham because the soul of Jesus existed in the spiritual world before Abraham lived in this world, since the souls of the Prophets have preexistence.

(96) PRE-EXISTENCE - of Prophets

The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being.
(Shoghi Effendi: High Endeavors, Page: 71)

 

[Skywalker]

That is not an example of Jesus saying that he is God. And what about all of the verses where he says that he is not God?

Jesus said he was God in the Bible in John 10:30 Jesus said I and my Father are one.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus said he was God in the Bible in John 10:30 Jesus said I and my Father are one.

That does not mean that Jesus was God.

“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that the Manifestation of God, in this case Jesus, and God are one and the same, so whatever pertains to the Manifestation of God, all His acts and doings, as well as whatever He ordains and forbids, is identical with the Will of God Himself. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one and the same. Jesus also shares many of the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one and the same

Jesus was a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror. This is why Jesus said, “The Father is in the Son” (John 14:11, John 17:21) meaning that the Attributes of God were visible and manifested in Jesus, but that does not mean that God became flesh because as God cannot become flesh. If God became flesh God would be a man, not God.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Skywalker]

That is not Jesus saying that He was God. Jesus was before Abraham because the soul of Jesus existed in the spiritual world before Abraham lived in this world, since the souls of the Prophets have preexistence.

(96) PRE-EXISTENCE - of Prophets

The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being.
(Shoghi Effendi: High Endeavors, Page: 71)

The Bible never says that Jesus was a prophet. Jesus had the threefold office of prophet, priest, and and king but He is first and foremost God. The idea that Jesus is a prophet is mentioned in the Quran, which adds to the Bible. A False Christ: 10 Major Differences Between Jesus In Islam & Christianity | Reasons for Jesus

2) Muhammad said that the most detestable name in the sight of Allah on the day of resurrection is king of kings
This one is pretty interesting. Pertaining to the day of resurrection, Muhammad made known to his followers that the most detestable name in the sight of God is Malik AL-Amlak which means king of kings.

In Sahih Bukhari Volume 008, Book 073, Hadith Number 224, it writes:

Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah’s Apostle said, “The most awful name in Allah’s sight on the Day of Resurrection, will be (that of) a man calling himself Malik Al-Amlak (the king of kings).”

However, in revelation 19:16, the bible writes that on his (Jesus’s) thigh and robe is written king of kings whilst Revelation 17:14 says: “They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus said he was God in the Bible in John 10:30 Jesus said I and my Father are one.

That could just mean that they agree. Why do you ignore all of the verse where he says even more clearly that he is not God?

 

[Skywalker]

That could just mean that they agree. Why do you ignore all of the verse where he says even more clearly that he is not God?

Jesus didn't directly say that he was God because he didn't want to be confused with God the Father. Jesus and God the Father are equal in essence but Jesus is in submission to the Father. Revisiting “Where Did Jesus Say ‘I am God’” – A Response to the Muhammedan Site “Do Not Say Trinity”

DNST cites numerous Old Testament texts where God says “I am God” or something close to that (Gen. 35:11; Gen. 46:3; Exo. 6:7; Exo. 16:12; Lev. 11:44 etc). Because it is a repeated theme for God to say “I am God” in the Old Testament the argument is that Christ should have come out and said “I am God” with those exact words as well. DNST argues that this phrase “has always been an insignia of traditional Judeo-Christian God” and thus we would expect Christ to use it without hesitation if He were truly God.

The problem is that if Jesus were to come out and say “I am God” without clearly and forcefully establishing his personal distinction from the Father, and His deity in relation to that fact, people would think He was claiming to be the same person as the Father. This is because God was used primarily in reference to the Father and virtually served as His proper name. In other words, to come out and say “I am God” instead of first establishing His distinction from the Father, would lead His followers into thinking He was making himself out to be the Father in heaven.(1) This is why Jesus didn’t just walk around saying “I am God” as the Muslims demand.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Bible never says that Jesus was a prophet.

Jesus referred to Himself as a Prophet, and was so regarded.

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

Jesus had the threefold office of prophet, priest, and and king but He is first and foremost God. The idea that Jesus is a prophet is mentioned in the Quran, which adds to the Bible. A False Christ: 10 Major Differences Between Jesus In Islam & Christianity | Reasons for Jesus

Jesus was a Prophet and a Messenger of God and a Manifestation of God, but Jesus was not a priest of a king. Jesus never claimed to be a priest and Jesus denied being a king when asked by answering with why He really came into the world.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

but He is first and foremost God.

Jesus never claimed to be God. Men decided that Jesus was God at the Council of Nicaea but that in no way makes Jesus into God. Jesus is not God because Jesus was a man and God is not a man.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Case closed.

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus referred to Himself as a Prophet, and was so regarded.

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

Jesus was a Prophet and a Messenger of God and a Manifestation of God, but Jesus was not a priest of a king. Jesus never claimed to be a priest and Jesus denied being a king when asked by answering with why He really came into the world.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jesus never claimed to be God. Men decided that Jesus was God at the Council of Nicaea but that in no way makes Jesus into God. Jesus is not God because Jesus was a man and God is not a man.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Case closed.

Jesus appeared as a man in the Old Testament. Jesus is the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament. Is Jesus Christ The Angel of The Lord? – Finding Christ In The Old Testament

Jesus was among the three visitors who came to Abraham’s tent.

Genesis 18 is an amazing chapter of Scripture. Abraham, the father of what would become the children of Israel, and heir to the promise that his lineage would bring forth the Messiah, met The Lord in person. Prior to this point, Abraham had audible conversations with God, who spoke to the patriarch from Heaven. But in chapter 18, God literally shows up at Abraham’s doorstep:

And the LORD appeared unto [Abraham] in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And [Abraham] lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:


Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetch a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat. – Genesis 18:1-8.

 

[shunyadragon]

No, that is simply a ridiculous claim. You might as well that would mean that he would be from Louisville.

. . . or Salt Lake City.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus appeared as a man in the Old Testament. Jesus is the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament. Is Jesus Christ The Angel of The Lord? – Finding Christ In The Old Testament

"Genesis 18 is an amazing chapter of Scripture. Abraham, the father of what would become the children of Israel, and heir to the promise that his lineage would bring forth the Messiah, met The Lord in person. Prior to this point, Abraham had audible conversations with God, who spoke to the patriarch from Heaven.

But in chapter 18, God literally shows up at Abraham’s doorstep:

And the LORD appeared unto [Abraham] in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And [Abraham] lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:"

Genesis 18 is not an amazing chapter of Scripture, it is just more anthropomorphisms from the Old Testament.
The LORD God has never appeared to anyone. Thankfully this was cleared up in the New Testament.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

 

[shunyadragon]

Jesus appeared as a man in the Old Testament. Jesus is the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament. Is Jesus Christ The Angel of The Lord? – Finding Christ In The Old Testament

Yes this is a claim many Christians make, but it takes a considerable leap in the interpretation of the references.

 

[Skywalker]

Yes this is a claim many Christians make, but it takes a considerable leap in the interpretation of the references.

Abraham referred to the man as Adonai. The triunity of God is consistent with the Old Testament saying that God is echad. Is Jesus Christ The Angel of The Lord? – Finding Christ In The Old Testament

in verse 3, when Abraham used the phrase “My LORD”, the Hebrew term is Adonnai, which is a title only used for God. So the Bible is clear that not only did Abraham see and speak to God and the two angelic beings present with Him, he ate with them and had his servants clean their feet. So how can we be sure this was God The Son? In addition Jesus’ own testimony that “no man hath seen the Father..” we can also look to the description of Jesus in Scripture. Colossians 2 says of Jesus: “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” Jesus is the physical form of the triune God.

 

[shunyadragon]

Abraham referred to the man as Adonai. The triunity of God is consistent with the Old Testament saying that God is echad. Is Jesus Christ The Angel of The Lord? – Finding Christ In The Old Testament

Abraham did not refer to a 'man' as Adonai he referred to God as Adonai. In the Hebrew the plural from Adonai or Elohim is used to refer to the singular in the belief that the One true God is All-powerful and All mighty.

Names of God in Judaism - Wikipedia

Adonai
Adonai (אֲדֹנָי‎, lit. "My Lords") is the plural form of adon ("Lord") along with the first-person singular pronoun enclitic.[n 3] As with Elohim, Adonai's grammatical form is usually explained as a plural of majesty. In the Hebrew Bible, it is nearly always used to refer to God (approximately 450 occurrences). As pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton came to be avoided in the Hellenistic period, Jews may have begun to drop the Tetragrammaton when presented alongside Adonai and subsequently expand it to cover for the Tetragrammaton in the forms of spoken prayer and written scripture. Owing to the expansion of chumra (the idea of "building a fence around the Torah"), the word 'Adonai' itself has come to be too holy to say for Orthodox Jews outside of prayer, leading to its replacement by HaShem ("The Name").

The singular forms adon and adoni ("my lord") are used in the Hebrew Bible as royal titles,[45][46] as in the First Book of Samuel,[47] and for distinguished persons. The Phoenicians used it as a title of Tammuz, the origin of the Greek Adonis. It is also used very occasionally in Hebrew texts to refer to God (e.g. Ps 136:3.)[48]

Though Elohim is plural in form, it is understood in the singular sense. Thus, in Genesis the words, “In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth,” Elohim is monotheistic in connotation, though its grammatical structure seems polytheistic.

 

[Skywalker]

Abraham did not refer to a 'man' as Adonai he referred to God as Adonai. In the Hebrew the plural from Adonai or Elohim is used to refer to the singular in the belief that the One true God is All-powerful and All mighty.

Names of God in Judaism - Wikipedia

Adonai
Adonai (אֲדֹנָי‎, lit. "My Lords") is the plural form of adon ("Lord") along with the first-person singular pronoun enclitic.[n 3] As with Elohim, Adonai's grammatical form is usually explained as a plural of majesty. In the Hebrew Bible, it is nearly always used to refer to God (approximately 450 occurrences). As pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton came to be avoided in the Hellenistic period, Jews may have begun to drop the Tetragrammaton when presented alongside Adonai and subsequently expand it to cover for the Tetragrammaton in the forms of spoken prayer and written scripture. Owing to the expansion of chumra (the idea of "building a fence around the Torah"), the word 'Adonai' itself has come to be too holy to say for Orthodox Jews outside of prayer, leading to its replacement by HaShem ("The Name").

The singular forms adon and adoni ("my lord") are used in the Hebrew Bible as royal titles,[45][46] as in the First Book of Samuel,[47] and for distinguished persons. The Phoenicians used it as a title of Tammuz, the origin of the Greek Adonis. It is also used very occasionally in Hebrew texts to refer to God (e.g. Ps 136:3.)[48]

Though Elohim is plural in form, it is understood in the singular sense. Thus, in Genesis the words, “In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth,” Elohim is monotheistic in connotation, though its grammatical structure seems polytheistic.

In verse 3, Abraham called God Adonai, not the two angelic visitors. That hints that he met Christ in the Old Testament. Christ being the fullness of God doesn't mean that God the Father and the Holy Spirit incarnated or that Christ is God the Father or the Holy Spirit.

 

[shunyadragon]

In verse 3, Abraham called God Adonai, not the two angelic visitors. That hints that he met Christ in the Old Testament. Christ being the fullness of God doesn't mean that God the Father and the Holy Spirit incarnated or that Christ is God the Father or the Holy Spirit.

Hints do not count. Abraham referred to the One and only True Monotheistic God as Adonai or Elohim. Anything beyond this is an interpretation that is not in the original Hebrew text.

 

[Skywalker]

Hints do not count. Abraham referred to the One and only True Monotheistic God as Adonai or Elohim. Anything beyond this is an interpretation that is not in the original Hebrew text.

Abraham called the one who was with the two angelic visitors, Adonai. Abraham wouldn't have called the man God if he wasn't God in human form.

 

[shunyadragon]

Abraham called the one who was with the two angelic visitors, Adonai. Abraham wouldn't have called the man God if he wasn't God in human form.

False, Adonai and Elohim are exclusive terms for the One and only True God, not angels. I will go with the legitimate Hebrew text of the Tanakh, and not a later interpretation to justify a Christian justification for the Trinity, which does not fit the original Hebrew.

 

[shunyadragon]

Abraham called the one who was with the two angelic visitors, Adonai. Abraham wouldn't have called the man God if he wasn't God in human form.

The One with the two angels is God. Again the term Adonai and Elohim are exclusively defined for the One and only Monotheistic God, and no other. Again I will go with the actual original Hebrew of the Tanakh.

It was not a man it was God.